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Old May 05, 2003, 09:17 PM
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Tres Wright's Avatar
Forney, TX
Joined Mar 2002
15,165 Posts
Wing-E on new PJS-300 brushless

I got my package from Dave at Aircraft World today and shoved aside a few projects to immediately check out my new toy I got a 2x700 ET pack and 2 brand spanking new PJS-300 outrunner brushless motors with ESCs. You can find some more detailed info on these little motors here:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...5&pagenumber=4

These are similar to the Hobby Lobby outrunners in design, but much smaller.

I couldn't wait, I figured if I worked frantically, I could flight test it on my Wing-E this evening before the sun went down. First up I compared weights:

PJS 300/ Jeti 04-3P ESC/ bored out 010 prop adaptor/ APC 7x5 prop/ aluminum motor mount (included with motor) total weight = 1.9 oz.

DX-A/ EDF hybrid/ heat sink/ 7x6 GWS prop/ MX-9208 ESC total weight = 1.4 oz.

Some people have managed to eliminate the prop adaptor and aluminum motor mount from the PJS, that would get the weight down another .3 oz. or so. But I ended up picking up .5 oz. because I used those parts. However, I was using 2x1020's before (1.6 oz) and switched to 2x700 ET's (1.2 oz.), so I ended up at almost the same AUW as before and balanced in the same spot.

Running it up on the Whattmeter resulted in these readings:

3.3a, 25 watts, 7.2 v (8.4 no load)

The old DX-A hybrid netted this:

4.4a, 33 watts, 7.2v

I fabbed a quick mount of balsa hardened with C/A as can be seen in the pic. A hooked everything up, put the 700's on and was outside with plenty of light left Fired it up and off she went! The first thing you notice about this motor (as has been reported by Bernard, Jim and probably others) is that it is quiet. Man, they weren't kidding, it is ---whisper--- quiet. It's eery, you'd almost swear you were flying a sailplane! The other thing you notice is this thing scoots! 25 watts doesn't sound like much, but the little Wing-E was flying great! I've been having some flakey control on my Wing-E for quite some time, I couldn't seem to track it down. It seemed like my control horns were loose or something. Well, apparently it was constant small glitching I was getting from the hybrid. With this little brushless, it flew smooth as silk. Beautiful, my Wing-E has a new lease on life!

Performance was not quite as strong as the hybrid, but it was pretty darned close. A gauge of the Wing-E's performance is the outside loop from inverted. I could not do it on the stock S-2 motor, but could do it on the hybrid. It WILL outside loop on this setup as well. Inside loops from level flight and rolls are a snap. Overall performance is excellent.

Flight time was 11 minutes on the 700's. I switched to 1020's, but the weight gain impacted performance (probably because I couldn't shift the pack weight far enough back to balance properly). Flight time on the 1020's was 14 minutes. Both flights were flown with substantial aerobatics, so flight times could be greatly extended with more throttle moderation. Motor and packs were cool (almost cold) to the touch after flights.

We are sooooo close to a brushless IPS replacement! This little motor performs at hybrid level while weighing just a little more than an IPS, uses the same packs as an IPS and will last forever with proper care. It's a great setup! The other one will be going on my Mini IFO, flight report will follow soon after I'm sure
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Last edited by Tres Wright; May 06, 2003 at 08:22 AM.
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Old May 05, 2003, 09:50 PM
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Houston Texas
Joined Mar 2001
743 Posts
Tres,
Thanks for the report. One thing I noticed about my CD-Rom motors, they were very weak, did not like the hard Texas clay. How durable do you think these little charms are because I am guaranteed to put it through the testing
Philip
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Old May 05, 2003, 09:59 PM
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marjamar's Avatar
Loveland, Colorado, United States
Joined Jan 2003
899 Posts
Acer and I got my msw ultimate up late this afternoon as well. Did a post in the power systems forum under the PJS Outrunner Motor tests thread ( http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...5&pagenumber=4 ).

We will be doing some changes to the elevons and trying a few more props over the next couple of days. So far it looks very promising -- close to msw speed very good vertical but as yet not unlimited. I am just a bit on the heavy side at 7.2 AUW which included the 1020 kokams, but will be trying some different battery options as well.

Once it is dialed in, I'll put up a new thread with pics and a link to video(s).

-Rodger
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Old May 06, 2003, 12:46 AM
BEC
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Auburn, Washington USA
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You don't really mean 9X6 prop, do you? Your numbers are close to what I see with the APC 7X6SF.......

You can mount it with less weight by sacrificing an IPS gearbox frame and lashing a bit of brass tubing to it with fiberglass tape. Then build up the rear bearing tube a bit with tape and flatten the tubing to give a good press fit. Slide this on over the existing motor stick (assuming it's still usable). That will get the weight of the motor further aft as well.

I sure got folks to come look/see each time I flew the blue Wing-E with the PJS-300 on it over the weekend at Washougal. Both the performance and the silence get people to ask about it.
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Old May 06, 2003, 01:05 AM
BEC
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My Wing-E/PJS mount details. Tubing is 7/16 brass, flattened slightly. Would love to be able to get 10mm ID aluminum or brass tubing.....
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Old May 06, 2003, 01:38 AM
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Laurel, Maryland USA
Joined Aug 2000
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Glad to hear it's working for you Tres! Isn't the sound cool? I'd read Bernard's posts about how quiet it was. But it really didn't hit me until I got it in the air. This no gear box thing is pretty slick.

Have you got an APC 9x6 "E" to try on it? I think you'll find with that prop you'll surpass your hybrid drive's power while still having good run times. I'm getting about 8 min of heavy flying
with the exact setup you have and a 9x6 prop.

Fill: They are very robust, overbuilt in my opinion. I think it would take a pretty good auger in to break / bend it.


-Jim
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Old May 06, 2003, 01:44 AM
Motor Maniac
Orange County, CA
Joined Feb 2002
2,875 Posts
Okay, everyone is using LiPoly except me. Tres, from your experience would a 7x370 NiMH pack work for something like a Wing-E? I have my PJS 300 on its way, trying to figure out what to put it on and what battery pack to use.
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Old May 06, 2003, 07:06 AM
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Loveland, Colorado, United States
Joined Jan 2003
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Say Tres,

I was wondering what your UAW is (did I miss it ) does it seem you would have enough power to hold vertical using the 9x6 prop (or any others)?

I will be visiting our LHS today to pick up some more props and ACER and I will be trying his 10.8v high-output kokams as well.

-Rodger
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Old May 06, 2003, 08:36 AM
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Tres Wright's Avatar
Forney, TX
Joined Mar 2002
15,165 Posts
Philip-
==How durable do you think these little charms are because I am guaranteed to put it through the testing==

LOL! Well, it seems pretty durable. The shaft is 4 mm and runs all the way through extending out the back of the motor. Looks like it would be difficult to damage this thing!

Rodger-
Sounds good, look forward to the movie! What prop are you using?

==I was wondering what your UAW is ==

I'll weigh it this evening. With the 700's it's probably around 7-1/2 oz., maybe less.

==does it seem you would have enough power to hold vertical using the 9x6 ==

I'm using a 7x5 (typo'd the prop size) and it doesn't have that kind of thrust on that little prop. It doesn't perform on a level with the geared 010's, but performs much better than a stock IPS. It's like a hybrid without the motor replacement headaches!

Bernard-
==You don't really mean 9X6 prop, do you? ==

YIKES! No, I meant a 7x5 APC. Not sure where 9x6 came from! I edited my post.

==That will get the weight of the motor further aft as well. ==

I plan on doing something similar to yours, I just fabbed this mount as something down-and-dirty to get in the air yesterday. I'm going looking for tubing at lunch today. I plan on building a ply box to slip over the mount similar to your IPS mod, then thread & C/A the tubing to the box. I'm going to cut a slit in the tubing at the front so it will compress better against the motor shaft and zip tie around it to secure the motor. I'll see how strong that is.

Jim-
==Isn't the sound cool? ==

What sound? It's like the sound of a single hand clapping

==I'm getting about 8 min of heavy flying
with the exact setup you have and a 9x6 prop==

Do you know what your amp draw is on that? As Bernard mentioned, I typo'd the prop and am actually using a 7x5. I want to use a bigger prop on the Mini IFO though.

Thumbs-
==from your experience would a 7x370 NiMH pack work for something like a Wing-E==

8 cells would be better, but yeah, there's no reason it wouldn't fly decent on that pack.
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Old May 06, 2003, 08:42 AM
BEC
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Auburn, Washington USA
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Try the APC 7X6SF. You'll find (or I did) that you can actually throttle down from time to time with that one......
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Old May 06, 2003, 09:22 AM
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Tres Wright's Avatar
Forney, TX
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I will be trying several other props for testing purposes. Right now the 7x5 is the only APC I had on hand.
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Old May 06, 2003, 09:32 AM
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St. Louis, Missouri
Joined Oct 2000
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OK Tres ... just when I thought it was safe to come out ... I was just about to order a few more EDF50's for my Wing-E when I saw this post. Looks like I'll be ordering one of these. And perhaps a couple of 700's too. I've been using 1020's with the hybrid DXA. Thanks for the info.
Tom
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Old May 06, 2003, 10:11 AM
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Tres Wright's Avatar
Forney, TX
Joined Mar 2002
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LOL! I blame Bernard and Jim, so you can blame me, then someone else can blame you It really is a nice little setup, and Aircaft-World had the motor and ESC for 100 bucks which I thought was a great deal. The 700's definitely lighten the load, but it'll fly on your 1020's too. I think if I can move the motor back like Bernard did and get rid of that .2 oz. motor mount, it will balance better with the 1020's. That's the next thing I'm going to try. I'd like to be able to use both the 1020's and the 700's with it.
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Old May 06, 2003, 10:45 AM
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how does this motor compare to the razor?

any thoughts?

jeff
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Old May 06, 2003, 11:07 AM
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Tres Wright's Avatar
Forney, TX
Joined Mar 2002
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It doesn't really compare to the geared Razor or geared 010's. It's a different motor for a different application. Those setups are more for screaming performance while the PJS 300 is a lighter alternative that is more of an IPS replacement with hybrid power levels.

I considered a geared 010 too heavy for my Wing-E and Mini IFO. The motor & gearbox coupled with 3 cell li-pos would have negatively impacted the lightweight flight characteristics of those planes.

This PJS motor seems to fill the previous gap in the market for a smaller, lighter, milder brushless choice. The drawbacks are it's not easily adapted to an IPS mount, and it doesn't come with a prop adaptor. Hopefully someone will make a laser cut mount for it. I'm using a drilled out 010 prop adaptor, I've got several of them left over from my geared 010 setups.
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