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Old Nov 30, 2011, 07:06 PM
Team Park Pilot - Airborne
OzparkPilot's Avatar
Australia, NSW, Sydney
Joined Nov 2006
4,475 Posts
Sound the funeral march.....
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Old Nov 30, 2011, 08:13 PM
Space guzzler...
liftytim's Avatar
Sydney, Australia
Joined Jun 2010
206 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by maiden-crash View Post
I know this is late GJ, but here is the Edge:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqj7vKu6ShU

Gonna look crap after DH
Great vid/flying!

T
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Old Nov 30, 2011, 08:19 PM
Registered User
Wantirna Sth Vic,Australia
Joined Jul 2006
336 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by maiden-crash View Post
Daniel is an advanced pilot that is supposed to make that plane look like the best thing in the world. I'll assume your experience with aerobats (and planes) is limited, but I'd be careful about making absolute statements like you did especially when you are basing them off assumptions made about a video, and not your own experience (and not to mention basic physics).

Reality is, 180 gram foamies do not, cannot, and will not carry the momentum that larger balsa planes do, and will fly off airwash like Sub has said. They also flex more, so their shape deforms (and conforms) in accordance with aerodynamic forces.
I guess the point I was trying to make, from experience and talking to people is the notion that these light foam 3D planes are too flexible to be flown with precision. By precision the kind of graceful flight you would see out of giant scale freestyle. I didn't say anything about momentum as it's kind of a moot point. Of course it wont tumble like 5kg plane.
I do have 20 or so EPP 3D planes and just recently put together my first RC factory one and was super impressed with quite a few design elements that are incredibly light and 'stiff enough'. I will also be buying one of these as well. It's wire cut and they use denser EPP than other planes in this class which are usually laser-cut out of sheet EPP.
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Old Nov 30, 2011, 08:20 PM
Registered User
Wantirna Sth Vic,Australia
Joined Jul 2006
336 Posts
Sorry for any offence caused, kind of an off the cuff response on my behalf. LOL
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Old Nov 30, 2011, 08:25 PM
Team Park Pilot - Airborne
OzparkPilot's Avatar
Australia, NSW, Sydney
Joined Nov 2006
4,475 Posts
Im not offended.... but then nothing offends me anywhere !!
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Old Nov 30, 2011, 09:32 PM
R/C Airplane Executioner
Melbourne, Australia
Joined May 2006
1,938 Posts
That's cool, thanks for clarifying. A heads up for you 3Ders:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1548230

Not a bad opportunity IMO to grab a new technology pack.
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Old Nov 30, 2011, 09:35 PM
R/C Airplane Executioner
Melbourne, Australia
Joined May 2006
1,938 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by liftytim View Post
Great vid/flying!

T
Thanks Tim
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Old Dec 01, 2011, 12:48 AM
How many planes is too many?
groovejet's Avatar
Melbourne, Australia
Joined Aug 2007
3,932 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by maiden-crash View Post
I know this is late GJ, but here is the Edge:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqj7vKu6ShU

Gonna look crap after DH
Fantastic flying MC . I love the way you extracted it from the tree .
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Old Dec 01, 2011, 02:42 AM
I ♥ OpenTX
H2SO4's Avatar
Australia, New South Wales, Sydney
Joined Jan 2011
2,693 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BingWing View Post
Sebarts are the best flying and made plane for perfect tracking and IMAC lines. My 61` Sukhoi is still the best 50 size plane in that size range and I have owned and flown most. If you want something that is a really floaty plane, go with the Slick 51` ! It really does almost hover hands off and torque rolls are very easy. Down low and dirty is its : thing " What you are looking for in a good 3D model is the type of behaviour it demonstrates in an UPRIGHT harrier. Ifs its stable with little in no wingrock it will be a very solid and stable 3D platform.
Thanks for that. Can you recommend any particular Sebart airframes that I should look at in the <50" range? 61" is just too big for me at present, not because I don't want to move to that size (on the contrary!) but because of the constraints of a small car and a bunch of 3S batteries which I'd like to be able to use.

My current search is for fast-and-tumbly airframes. The 3D foamies and the (resurrected) PA Extra take care of floaty flying, so now I'd also like to get a balsa plane with some real momentum behind it.
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Old Dec 01, 2011, 02:56 AM
How many planes is too many?
groovejet's Avatar
Melbourne, Australia
Joined Aug 2007
3,932 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by H2SO4 View Post
Thanks for that. Can you recommend any particular Sebart airframes that I should look at in the <50" range? 61" is just too big for me at present, not because I don't want to move to that size (on the contrary!) but because of the constraints of a small car and a bunch of 3S batteries which I'd like to be able to use.

My current search is for fast-and-tumbly airframes. The 3D foamies and the (resurrected) PA Extra take care of floaty flying, so now I'd also like to get a balsa plane with some real momentum behind it.
Sebart's smallest balsa planes have a wingspan of 51". For something smaller you'll need to consider other brands. Another thing; I've never tried a Sebart personally due to a few guys that I respect the opinions of telling me that they don't have the ruggedness of EF and 3DHS planes. The Sebart 30e manuals even state that the planes are not intended for fast and aggressive pilots like myself. EF and 3DHS make no such claims in their manuals and my personal experience with those planes has shown me that they can take whatever in-flight abuse I subject them to.

Tell us a little more about your 3S lipos (capacity and C rating) and we can suggest some planes.
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Old Dec 01, 2011, 03:16 AM
I ♥ OpenTX
H2SO4's Avatar
Australia, New South Wales, Sydney
Joined Jan 2011
2,693 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by groovejet View Post
Sebart's smallest balsa planes have a wingspan of 51". For something smaller you'll need to consider other brands. Another thing; I've never tried a Sebart personally due to a few guys that I respect the opinions of telling me that they don't have the ruggedness of EF and 3DHS planes. The Sebart 30e manuals even state that the planes are not intended for fast and aggressive pilots like myself. EF and 3DHS make no such claims in their manuals and my personal experience with those planes has shown me that they can take whatever in-flight abuse I subject them to.

Tell us a little more about your 3S lipos (capacity and C rating) and we can suggest some planes.
I have a dozen or so Turnigy 2200mAh 3S 40C packs and a few more 2200-2600mAh packs with 25C-35C ratings. They're all in good health and I take care of them religiously (never full for more than 8h, always "storage" charged, never depleted beyond 30%, spreadsheet-based periodic IR monitoring [yes, I'm an@l ]... )

In part due to your awesome videos, I got myself a Skywing MXS a few months ago and I've been flying it as much as humanly possible. Excellent plane - it taught me a lot! Now I'd like to get more deeply involved with balsa.

What's your opinion of PA quality? Is it comparable with 3DHS and EF? Can PA planes like the Katana MD and (perhaps) the Bandit be thrown around with abandon, without worrying about mid-air disintegration (assuming they haven't previously been damaged and repaired )?

On that note, is there anything that one should never ever do in mid-air, even to the likes of 3DHS and EF planes? In other words, is there a combination of stick position/movement and throttle level that is a known no-no for just about any aerobatic plane? I'd hate to find out the hard way

Thanks for the input GJ. It's sincerely appreciated.
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Old Dec 01, 2011, 04:45 AM
Nup, I got nothing!.....
evo62's Avatar
Gold Coast, Australia
Joined Jun 2007
2,174 Posts
In my opinion, PA planes are more fragile then 3dhs and also are floatier. That can be a good thing in that it slows everything down, but can be bad as they don't handle wind as well as the 3dhs stuff or do as violent stuff. I do know the extra sr was a crazy Plane. I have no idea how it didn't self-destruct with my clumsy thumbs....

In the right hands, they are all awesome, in mine the differences are more obvious. All the modern designs are good, just different emphasis with each one. PA quality is good, but If you nose them inyouve gotta do some maintenance on them. When i nosed in the 3dhs planes they were still flightworthy.
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Old Dec 01, 2011, 05:45 AM
Team Park Pilot - Airborne
OzparkPilot's Avatar
Australia, NSW, Sydney
Joined Nov 2006
4,475 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by H2SO4 View Post
Thanks for that. Can you recommend any particular Sebart airframes that I should look at in the <50" range? 61" is just too big for me at present, not because I don't want to move to that size (on the contrary!) but because of the constraints of a small car and a bunch of 3S batteries which I'd like to be able to use.

My current search is for fast-and-tumbly airframes. The 3D foamies and the (resurrected) PA Extra take care of floaty flying, so now I'd also like to get a balsa plane with some real momentum behind it.
Probably a fair bit of preference in this forum and whist we clearly have some good pilots here, we all have our own flying styles and type of plane we prefer. Having the job of reviewing these for all but pa i can tell you that I find my preference is 3dhs for a few reasons in your size requirement. I love pa planes but hate to build them and my feeling are no doubt shared here but some. They are way to time consuming in comparison to the only other two company's that produce planes that fly as well... Extream flight and 3dhs ! There much easier to put together and as I am time poor, much nicer to build.

That said, pa are great to deal with, are local and really understand there stuff and carry spares ! A very very good reason to deel with the extra time of having to build silly control linkages that do nothing to add to flight performance but hey... Try telling Shaun anything about that !!
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Old Dec 01, 2011, 04:03 PM
Cookie Monster
Australia, QLD, Diddillibah
Joined Aug 2005
1,357 Posts
I agree with BW about PA planes,I have had Addiction,KMD,260 and MX and they have annoying traits about them.The build is fiddly,pushrods are annoying,don't like the reversed motorbox setups and their direct tailwheel mounts stress rudder servos unneccesarily.
Battery access is tight on the smaller ones too,for no good reason (the one reason I haven't bought the bipe)
Saying that though,they do fly well when it is calm,but they are very "floaty",it is just the way he designs them,big wings on light airframes.They are also fragile if bingled,but I have never had one come apart in midair,and I am hard on them.
I have seen a fair few of Grizzlymatts and others 3DHS and EF planes,and they are definately more robust and heavier,and fly accordingly.Not bad,just different,with more momentum.
Originally I was a light freak but now I find I am tending to like the higher energy manuoevers as well.
The less floaty planes are just better in this regard IMHO.I find myself drawn to the EF 48" and 60"(drool),more and more.3DHS are nice,but you gotta import them for $$,so for me I would look at the EF range I reckon,plus you can use different motors easily,which is a good feature.
The Sebarts I have seen fly nicely,but are fragile from what I have seen(thin stringers that break easily) and pretty pricey too.
You won't go wrong with any of them really,but if it was my money,Extreme Flight would be right up there.
Bleary.
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Old Dec 01, 2011, 05:00 PM
I'm torquing to you!
Mr Kamikaze's Avatar
Wattle Grove NSW Australia
Joined Nov 2006
7,392 Posts
Hey you guys know I'm down with PA so please don't hammer me for my comments. But I have had both a Sebart and a 3DHS plane (admittedly a few years back so things may have changed) but in my experience neither of them were as robust as PA planes when it came to connecting with the ground. Can't comment on EF haven't had one.
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