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Old Feb 03, 2013, 09:09 AM
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davereap's Avatar
Ashford. Kent. England
Joined Feb 2005
6,851 Posts
Here is another Xmas foil special... On a CF frame work
Based on a Vapor but for the Sukoi guts and ar6400..this is a 20" span design that I am calling the Whisper
The build thread is here... http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...1#post24009061
It has come in at 45gms AUW... with a wing loading of 1.28ozsqft
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 09:50 AM
No place like cloud base......
SuperBarlow's Avatar
United States, VT
Joined Aug 2012
432 Posts
YOU SHOULD GIVE IT AILERONS!

I've been looking for a night vapor style plane with aileron for some time now. It wouldn't be too hard, would it?

I like the bipe by the way.
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 11:38 AM
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davereap's Avatar
Ashford. Kent. England
Joined Feb 2005
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Make it with the same lines, but dont add the depron ribs, then the wing is flat rather than undercambered... have the wing at zero on the incidence rather than positive like this one...then either reduce the wing chord by 1/3 and add ailerons to bring the chord back....or go all moving on the wing ..
That occured to me whilst building this for a flying buddy

The only problem is that with these very slow fliers the roll rate is poor, I am sure the ailerons are also slowing the model as it tries to roll it... then when it gets too slow there is no airflow over the surfaces and it doesnt keep up the rolling motion ....thats why Ive gone to an all moving wing on the biplane..
If that doesnt work I will have to go with more power, so the prop wash rolls the model, or more speed so the model can carry through the roll..

To be honest the Vapor doesnt need ailerons, the thing has a tight enough turning circle and it is not capable of real aerobatics, it too delicate..you can chuck it about, but serious aerobatics are just not done...
Its a lovely little model that is just great for floating about and relaxing with... I love it,
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 04:10 PM
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dbacon's Avatar
Shelby Twp, MI
Joined May 2006
1,959 Posts
I once made moving wingtips for my Sig Kadet Sr. and it felt so good to fly, that others commented on how smooth it was. No adverse yaw on turns or anything. Trouble is I love knife edge, and you need adverse yaw for that, so it wasn't good for that. But it was cool, and I have it on our club web page somewhere...
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 06:44 PM
Life begins at 40
addictedtoplanes's Avatar
Canada, ON, Guelph
Joined Jun 2012
668 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperBarlow View Post
YOU SHOULD GIVE IT AILERONS!

I've been looking for a night vapor style plane with aileron for some time now. It wouldn't be too hard, would it?

I like the bipe by the way.
I wonder if anyone has made a wing-warping vapor...
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 12:34 AM
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davereap's Avatar
Ashford. Kent. England
Joined Feb 2005
6,851 Posts
parkzone...lol...when you try to do aerobatics with a vapor....... and the wings almost clap when you go for a loop..
seriously though its a lovely slow flier, which goes on for ages on a 160 lipo
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 02:21 PM
What tree??.......Doh!!
Smokin_Joes's Avatar
USA, WA, Seattle
Joined Aug 2007
737 Posts
30mm Eurofighter

Not a scratch built, but modified kit so hope it's okay to post here:

Setup:

11,500kv motor from GP F-86
30mm fan from GP F-86
3g servos (two)
one SPMSA2030L 2.3g for rudder
AS6410NBL as3x board from Mig-15
GWS V-Tail Mixer

Waiting on a replacement rudder servo, though might get it in the mail today. If so, will then take post pics of my build.

Looking forward,

Neil
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 05:40 PM
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Petefoss's Avatar
Oxford, Michigan, United States
Joined Aug 1999
2,355 Posts
Who's kit?
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 06:17 PM
What tree??.......Doh!!
Smokin_Joes's Avatar
USA, WA, Seattle
Joined Aug 2007
737 Posts
DynamicFoamy- http://www.profileplanes.com/index.p...product_id=119

Length= 21''
Wingspan= 14.5''
Channel= 4
RTF weight= 1.9 oz

Additional notes: It's about 75% AUW of a UMX beast, so was considering using all 2030L servos instead of the 3g. Surface area of both elevons and working canards on the EF are less than the four ailerons on beast, so I think two 2030l's would work. At this point though, I've already converted connectors and installed the 3g's so I'll give those a go for now.

Although I have a computer radio, I set it for reg configuration airplane (aileron, elevator, rudder) and let the v-tail mixer do the rest. All inputs move in the direction expected. Flying by hand and you see the as3x seemingly counteract appropriately.

Anyone else use a v-tail mixer with as3x board yet?

Neil

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Old Feb 04, 2013, 06:31 PM
Master of Micro Modding
valiantGLX's Avatar
Australia, SA, Burra
Joined Sep 2011
2,534 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokin_Joes View Post
Anyone else use a v-tail mixer with as3x board yet?

Neil
Not yet but I'm going to, however not for elevons but rather flaperons The AS3X board wont allow flaperons with the gyro working on both ailerons, but with a v tail mixer in place the flaperons and gyro should be fully functional
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 08:34 PM
Power Wheels Guru
UNGN's Avatar
Southlake, TX
Joined Jan 2008
7,327 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokin_Joes View Post
DynamicFoamy- http://www.profileplanes.com/index.p...product_id=119

Length= 21''
Wingspan= 14.5''
Channel= 4
RTF weight= 1.9 oz

Additional notes: It's about 75% AUW of a UMX beast, so was considering using all 2030L servos instead of the 3g. Surface area of both elevons and working canards on the EF are less than the four ailerons on beast, so I think two 2030l's would work. At this point though, I've already converted connectors and installed the 3g's so I'll give those a go for now.

Although I have a computer radio, I set it for reg configuration airplane (aileron, elevator, rudder) and let the v-tail mixer do the rest. All inputs move in the direction expected. Flying by hand and you see the as3x seemingly counteract appropriately.

Anyone else use a v-tail mixer with as3x board yet?

Neil

Put the Canard on a .125" carbon tube with some plastic bearings and hook an elevator servo to it, then just have ailerons on the wing.

For more elevator, you can put 2 servos on a "Y" harness and have one on the canard and the other on a flap behind the tailpipe.
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 09:38 PM
oic
Oh!... I see!
oic's Avatar
United States, VA, Wise
Joined Dec 2011
150 Posts
ok... this is my first attempt at a ar6400 scratch build... well, any scratch build period. I used 15 cents worth of meat tray foam from the local market and a couple of dollars worth of balsa from hobby lobby... The specs are:

RX: AR6400 (the cheap clone from ebay for $25)
TX: DX6i
Motor: PZ Sukhoi and gearbox
Prop: I dont know. Thought I ordered it with the Sukhoi motor.? but its 158mm long
Battery: 150mah Eflight
Wingspan: 18" (4.75" wide)
Length: 16.5"
Weight:... 40g no battery (this is what has me worried)

Guys, is my plane too fat? The meat tray foam is dense and thick (4.3mm)
Will probably maiden this weekend. Sorta modeled it after my Ember 2.
Go easy on me... yes, I know its pink

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Last edited by oic; Feb 05, 2013 at 09:44 PM.
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Old Feb 05, 2013, 10:12 PM
Pilot, Co-pilot, Navagator
nemoskull's Avatar
United States, AZ, Yuma
Joined Sep 2009
2,766 Posts
it should fly. keep full throttle, that 'airfoil' might give you funny stall problems at slow speed ( just guessing...)
weight is a little high, but flyable (i think the 60 gram area is the max. that prop/motor should put out about 35-40 grams thrust, so even assuming a 45 gram AUW, and 35 gran thrust, still u get 77% thrust to weight ratio. you need 50% minium to fly. 3d is over 100%.

looks like it will fly nice
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Old Feb 06, 2013, 02:55 AM
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davereap's Avatar
Ashford. Kent. England
Joined Feb 2005
6,851 Posts
Your wing loading comes in at about 2.7ozsqft, but the basic under-cambered slow stick model is normally an easy fly.. the heavier you get the faster it will fly, but under 3ozsqft is usually slow enough...and the SU guts will do ok..
I am flying 45gm models on the SU setup with no problems...

the basic SU flies at 2.8ozsqft but with its lower all up weight of 35gms and small thin wings, it has a fairly sprightly performance... yours should be slower with its wing section, with less of a performance due to your extra 10gms when flying..however I doubt you will have to fly at full power, the ones I have been flying at about 45gms are cruising steady at only half throttle..

I have been trying all sorts of builds to reduce weight... and am now going CF rods and film cover... simple holes cut in the wing can help, reduce the weight, I've been using thin carrier bags to cover open structures and Xmas foil wrap..
The carrier bag material is very good, it even heat shrinks to a nice flat finish
the model a few posts back has a similar design to yours, but more area on the wing so a lower wing loading.. it will be flying at 45gms getting its maiden this Thursday eve..

have you a link to the cheap ar6400
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Old Feb 06, 2013, 03:30 AM
Wanton construction
Pouncer's Avatar
Stockholm Sweden
Joined Sep 2006
959 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by davereap View Post
Make it with the same lines, but dont add the depron ribs, then the wing is flat rather than undercambered... have the wing at zero on the incidence rather than positive like this one...then either reduce the wing chord by 1/3 and add ailerons to bring the chord back....or go all moving on the wing ..
That occured to me whilst building this for a flying buddy

The only problem is that with these very slow fliers the roll rate is poor, I am sure the ailerons are also slowing the model as it tries to roll it... then when it gets too slow there is no airflow over the surfaces and it doesnt keep up the rolling motion ....thats why Ive gone to an all moving wing on the biplane..
If that doesnt work I will have to go with more power, so the prop wash rolls the model, or more speed so the model can carry through the roll..

To be honest the Vapor doesnt need ailerons, the thing has a tight enough turning circle and it is not capable of real aerobatics, it too delicate..you can chuck it about, but serious aerobatics are just not done...
Its a lovely little model that is just great for floating about and relaxing with... I love it,
I tried a couple of years back:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1230402

A fun project, but it fell far short of a livingroom aerobatic Vapor!
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