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Old Nov 10, 2011, 10:42 PM
micro scale builder
tmtbiker's Avatar
United States, DC, Washington
Joined May 2008
322 Posts
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Originally Posted by Cheesehead View Post
Let's hope that Castle or Hobbico or the like decide to sell us a 1s ESC. The micro heli crowd seem wlling enough to spend $20 on a voltage-to-PWM adapter made from a $0.50 IC and a few pennies of passive components..
I was thinking the exact same thing as I read through today's posts. I wish a big name like Castle would build us a Thunderbird 5A 1-2 cell esc, with nice short leads and possibly even a few battery adapters. Castle seems to be moving in the opposite direction, though. You can't buy a thunderbird 6/9/18 from them anymore, and they are focused on all their high voltage escs. I think part of the problem is all the new UMXs are brushless out of the box, so nobody needs to upgrade. I wish Horizon would go back to the UMX 'roots' that was the 19 gram cessna.

While I hate buying stuff from HK, the mark up at BSD is often 2x for the same exact items (3A esc, xp-7a, ap05, etc). While I would pay the premium for high end equipment like handmade motors or a yge-4 esc, paying a huge markup for identical equipment is a hard pill to swallow, even if HK loses one or two of my packages a year.
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Old Nov 10, 2011, 10:54 PM
Registered User
Barrett_G's Avatar
Joined Mar 2011
589 Posts
Maybe someone in this thread can help me.

I wanna build a twin brushless micro plane.... Using the guts of a beast.

Can the beasts brick handle 2 beast motors?

What needs to be modded for it to handle 2 brushless beast motors?

Any diagrams available.... Google hasn't been kind to me! LOL!
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 01:05 AM
Ego varius quis.
Cheesehead's Avatar
Wisconsin
Joined Nov 2003
1,923 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmtbiker View Post
While I hate buying stuff from HK, the mark up at BSD is often 2x for the same exact items (3A esc, xp-7a, ap05, etc). While I would pay the premium for high end equipment like handmade motors or a yge-4 esc, paying a huge markup for identical equipment is a hard pill to swallow, even if HK loses one or two of my packages a year.
$5 says Bob Selman is buying these from Hobbyking anyway. He doesn't actually stock YGE-4s or Mighty Midgets anymore.

What makes me angry is that the actual cost to make a YGE-4 is very small. If there's low demand and low quantities sold, it makes sense to charge the ~$80 asked when the YGE-4 was released 7 years ago.

Competition from the AR6400LBL (cheap) and XP-7A (cheaper) means almost no one buys the YGE-4 anymore - it's just not worth paying 5x the price. However, if the price was dropped to ~$25, he'd sell them by the hundred. Sure, there's lower profits per item, but the market is much larger!

The same applies to botique vendors. Low quantity -> high markup. However, when quantities increase, it's possible to sell at a much lower markup. There may be as much as a 50% markup on the ~$50 YGE-4.

On the good news side of things, there's guys like the DelTang designer who seem to have cottoned on. And development is much, much easier than it used to be.
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 06:14 AM
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Southlake, TX
Joined Jan 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrett_G View Post
Maybe someone in this thread can help me.

I wanna build a twin brushless micro plane.... Using the guts of a beast.

Can the beasts brick handle 2 beast motors?

What needs to be modded for it to handle 2 brushless beast motors?

Any diagrams available.... Google hasn't been kind to me! LOL!
The beast brick won't work with an external esc.

To run dual brushless you need a regular AR6400 and 2 brushless esc's in parallel.
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 10:17 AM
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Joined Mar 2011
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Originally Posted by UNGN View Post
The beast brick won't work with an external esc.

To run dual brushless you need a regular AR6400 and 2 brushless esc's in parallel.
So an AR6400... Use the 2 beast motors I have... And which brushless ESC's would you recommend?

Does the AR6400 have a built in ESC that would interfere?
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 02:14 PM
micro scale builder
tmtbiker's Avatar
United States, DC, Washington
Joined May 2008
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Originally Posted by Barrett_G View Post
So an AR6400... Use the 2 beast motors I have... And which brushless ESC's would you recommend?

Does the AR6400 have a built in ESC that would interfere?
i would use the turnigy or feigao 6A, the ar6400 brick ESC is brushed and you need to reprogram the brick to output a brushless signal so that your throttle channel still works. this has been discussed many times in many threads, so i would recommend a search.
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 03:59 PM
NaN
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Manchester, UK
Joined Nov 2005
3,756 Posts
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Originally Posted by Cheesehead View Post
The XP-3A appears to be using a motor driver IC not particularly suited for the application, and the remainder aren't much better.

The funny thing? I suspect the difference is maybe $2 in parts. DIY, anyone? :P
Is the XP-7A any better quality than the XP-3A? I'd guess they had to use proper FETs to get the higher current.

Yes, a lot of cheap stuff has just had too many corners cut. Often it would have been better to have made it a little bit dearer and use better components.

I've bought park flyer sized plug and play RTFs which seemed cheap, then felt the need to replace the motor, ESC, servos, maybe the pushrods, do repairs to correct shoddy assembly... In the end, they're not so cheap.

The Hobbyzone/Parkzone ultra micro RTF/BNF planes are great, and better than anything I could possibly make, but they just don't have light enough wing loading for the sort of indoor fly-ins I go to, where there are a lot of planes flying in a small space. If I hit someone's hand built plane, I want to hit it slow enough to not totally destroy it

Nooflyer,

Congratulations on the successful maiden. It might be worth experimenting with different props.

I like the GWS 5x3 on my Su-26 biplane conversion, for good duration for indoor flying, and the GWS 5043 (5x4.3) on the stock Su-26 for calm day outdoor flying, with a bit more pitch speed. That helps with aerobatics - it's much easier to loop than it was, but I doubt if it could hover. I don't really have the skills to find out.

I tried a GWS 6x3 on the Su-26 biplane too, which was fun but I didn't really feel the need for the extra power, plus the motor probably wouldn't have lived as long, and the flight time was shorter, of course.

I use the Plantraco adaptors that push fit in a 4mm hole. They come in a set of six, with two each of three shaft sizes. There's two for the 1.5mm shaft used on the Su-26 etc. I just leave them fitted to the prop and unscrew it from the shaft to try a different one.
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Last edited by Andy2No; Nov 11, 2011 at 04:18 PM. Reason: added pictures of Su-26 biplane conversion
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 04:34 PM
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United States, IL, Washington
Joined Nov 2008
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I have a few of the XP-7A's and run them on everything from 3 to 10 gram motors, 1cell and 2cell planes. So far not a single issue and couldn't be happier with them.
TODD
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 06:35 PM
NaN
Andy2No's Avatar
Manchester, UK
Joined Nov 2005
3,756 Posts
Thanks, TODD. That's good to know. It's a shame HK don't sell them any more. I can still buy them from http://micronradiocontrol.co.uk/xq_esc.html though - just not as cheap. They offer different wiring options, which is handy because my ability to solder small things is very limited.

I have a Turnigy 5A 1s ESC I haven't used yet. I've just read in one of the reviews on HK that it has a 5V BEC output, with a voltage booster. I guess I can bypass that to power the receiver or brick directly from the lipo though, so no need for a diode:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...hless_ESC.html
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 06:42 PM
Registered User
México, MOR, Jiutepec
Joined Oct 2011
350 Posts
im making a 26" b-25 but i dont know if i can use the mosquitos equipment because i dont know if i can make it wheight 75 gr maybe 80 im making with 3mm depron im gonna put tread later
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 08:52 PM
Ego varius quis.
Cheesehead's Avatar
Wisconsin
Joined Nov 2003
1,923 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by I R Irv View Post
I have a few of the XP-7A's and run them on everything from 3 to 10 gram motors, 1cell and 2cell planes. So far not a single issue and couldn't be happier with them.
TODD
A user on RCgroups swapped one for a YGE-4L and found a big increase in performance. It's likely to be a larger issue for high-performance 1s motors, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy2No View Post
Is the XP-7A any better quality than the XP-3A? I'd guess they had to use proper FETs to get the higher current.
Impedance isn't always linked to current handling. Higher voltage ratings for transistors often produce higher impedance. Also, the manufacturer has posted on RCgroups that the XP-7a isn't recommended for 1s use.

Anyone know how to measure the transistors on one of these? It's a standard form factor, and semiconductor manufacturers send me free samples....
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 10:01 PM
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México, MOR, Jiutepec
Joined Oct 2011
350 Posts
i think if you want the brushless esc buy the brushless version but i think thats why the ar6400 have a 3 connector output and with brushed you only use 2
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 10:42 PM
Ego varius quis.
Cheesehead's Avatar
Wisconsin
Joined Nov 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ara25demayo View Post
i think if you want the brushless esc buy the brushless version but i think thats why the ar6400 have a 3 connector output and with brushed you only use 2
The AR6400LBL (which has an internal BL ESC) has issues with non-Parkzone motors. Also, the XP-7A + AR6400 is actually lighter than the AR6400LBL with a bit of surgery.

Mostly, though, it's just that people have AR6400s and don't want to deal with brushed motors anymore. :P
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Old Nov 11, 2011, 11:00 PM
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México, MOR, Jiutepec
Joined Oct 2011
350 Posts
i thing a 30-40gr plane with p51 stuff fly great
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Old Nov 12, 2011, 11:03 AM
miataman
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Erie Pa.
Joined Oct 2007
665 Posts
some may get mad but this was going to be a 6400 plane. My order came before the friday indoor so I put these parts in instead. It flys very good but needed more reflex than I thought it would need. Rolls in the Gym but I still have to find the sweet spot for the cg. I have to set my DX6i to get the full throws from the elevons and will try loops in the Gym.
HK 415 RX
3x5230 servos
Turnigy 6g ESC
HK 5g brushless
hyperion 180 2 cell
43 grams without batt.

I cant wait for the wind to die so I can try it outside.
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