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Old Nov 20, 2009, 10:05 AM
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Glasswalker's Avatar
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Joined Jun 2009
131 Posts
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Question about tail stability on Walkera 4#3B Double Brushless

Hey, I have a 4#3B which is brand new, just got it yesterday.

I'm also fairly new to the heli scene. Built a 450, and crashed it good lol, figured I'd get a micro to practice on indoors while I wait for summer to get the 450 fixed. (also figured if I could tame a twitchy micro over the winter, by summer I would be able to master a 450 no problem lol)

Anyway, when I first got it I was a bit paranoid after smashing up my 450 lol... So I was just throttling enough to skim around on the ground and get a feel for it. But when I did this, it was spinning clockwise quite badly (the tail motor was revving up alot). I played with it a bit but couldn't get it to hold pointing the same direction.

So I thought maybe the gyro adjustments are off, so I adjusted the pot on the rx... tried lower sensitivity, that didn't help, so I tried higher sensitivity, that didn't help either (neither appeared to have any effect actually). So I reset it to approximately where it was and kept poking at it...

Tried adjusting the trim on the left stick for rudder, and managed to get it not to spin, but only with like 20% - 30% trim adjustment, which seems odd to me, shouldn't need to trim it that far I would think.

Anyway, then by mistake I hovered it about a foot off the ground, and once it got up about 6 inches, it stopped spinning and the tail held (but it had spun like 180 degrees).

So I dialed the trim back down, and got a bit braver and tried hovering it in the air a few times. smacked it into some blankets once, and a cushion, and then some chair legs... no visible damage, everything still works like out of the box. But consistently when I am taking off it spins about 90 degrees clockwise, then once in the air it holds relatively well.

So my question is, what should I adjust to compensate for this? is something out of whack? or is this just how these helis behave?

Just trying to get used to it. because once it's in the air I can actually hover it now for about 10 seconds before I start to loose control, but having to wrangle the rudder back to tail-in every time sometimes makes me loose control, so it would be nice to be able to just take off and hover it tail in without the twitch like that...

Is that something that tail mixing could fix? (I have the 2801E TX). The tail mixing menu is locked on the TX right now in 2401 mode, but I could try it in a different mode to unlock those menus.

Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
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Old Nov 20, 2009, 10:46 AM
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livonia bob's Avatar
United States, MI, Livonia
Joined Apr 2009
16,516 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glasswalker View Post
Hey, I have a 4#3B which is brand new, just got it yesterday.

I'm also fairly new to the heli scene. Built a 450, and crashed it good lol, figured I'd get a micro to practice on indoors while I wait for summer to get the 450 fixed. (also figured if I could tame a twitchy micro over the winter, by summer I would be able to master a 450 no problem lol)

Anyway, when I first got it I was a bit paranoid after smashing up my 450 lol... So I was just throttling enough to skim around on the ground and get a feel for it. But when I did this, it was spinning clockwise quite badly (the tail motor was revving up alot). I played with it a bit but couldn't get it to hold pointing the same direction.

So I thought maybe the gyro adjustments are off, so I adjusted the pot on the rx... tried lower sensitivity, that didn't help, so I tried higher sensitivity, that didn't help either (neither appeared to have any effect actually). So I reset it to approximately where it was and kept poking at it...

Tried adjusting the trim on the left stick for rudder, and managed to get it not to spin, but only with like 20% - 30% trim adjustment, which seems odd to me, shouldn't need to trim it that far I would think.

Anyway, then by mistake I hovered it about a foot off the ground, and once it got up about 6 inches, it stopped spinning and the tail held (but it had spun like 180 degrees).

So I dialed the trim back down, and got a bit braver and tried hovering it in the air a few times. smacked it into some blankets once, and a cushion, and then some chair legs... no visible damage, everything still works like out of the box. But consistently when I am taking off it spins about 90 degrees clockwise, then once in the air it holds relatively well.

So my question is, what should I adjust to compensate for this? is something out of whack? or is this just how these helis behave?

Just trying to get used to it. because once it's in the air I can actually hover it now for about 10 seconds before I start to loose control, but having to wrangle the rudder back to tail-in every time sometimes makes me loose control, so it would be nice to be able to just take off and hover it tail in without the twitch like that...

Is that something that tail mixing could fix? (I have the 2801E TX). The tail mixing menu is locked on the TX right now in 2401 mode, but I could try it in a different mode to unlock those menus.

Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
WOW looks like you are someone I can help with my past and present experiences with my 4#3B DBL

First sounds like it's flying OK if when in the air it holds the tail OK.. You just have to learn the trick of lifting off the ground cleanly.. I like to spin up the rotors about half way to lift off speed then pop it into the air with a little more throttle... Are you flying off a bare floor or carpet? How much flying room are we talking about?

If you would like I can tell you all the settings I'm using on my 2801E for the 4#3B and which now allow me to fly it around the room under control most of the time..
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Old Nov 20, 2009, 11:16 AM
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Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Joined Jun 2009
131 Posts
I PMd you as you requested in the other thread. I figured I would reply to the post as well to benefit any others who may be interested.

To answer your questions... For the flying surface, we are currently moving, but I couldn't resist playing with the heli. So I was flying it from a mattress on my livingroom floor, with a sheet on it. Not exactly a perfect surface I know lol...

As for room, right now about 8ft square... I know not much room, but that's because there are boxes, and stuff piled everywhere. Where I was flying I pushed the blankets and pillows out of the way, and there was a dining set piled in the other direction (hence the comment of hitting some blankets, and chairs lol)

so far when I jump it up into the air, it takes me a second to either:
A) Loose control, and land it
B) Gain control, and hover it stable for about 10 seconds.
During that timeframe right after takeoff it will drift around by 2-3 feet in any given direction, occasionally hitting something but I've been pretty good about landing it first, never hit anything with it fully powered. But once I get it wrangled under control I can hover it fairly stable (drifting by a foot one way or the other, with fairly stable elevation).
I normally loose it because it suddenly drifts by a bit and I overcorrect, or because I get too high in the air (3-4 feet) and I find once I'm climbing that high it's easier to drift suddenly to one side or the other so I do a "controlled crash" to save things like my 42" LCD TV lol...
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Old Nov 20, 2009, 11:21 AM
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livonia bob's Avatar
United States, MI, Livonia
Joined Apr 2009
16,516 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glasswalker View Post
I PMd you as you requested in the other thread. I figured I would reply to the post as well to benefit any others who may be interested.

To answer your questions... For the flying surface, we are currently moving, but I couldn't resist playing with the heli. So I was flying it from a mattress on my livingroom floor, with a sheet on it. Not exactly a perfect surface I know lol...

As for room, right now about 8ft square... I know not much room, but that's because there are boxes, and stuff piled everywhere. Where I was flying I pushed the blankets and pillows out of the way, and there was a dining set piled in the other direction (hence the comment of hitting some blankets, and chairs lol)

so far when I jump it up into the air, it takes me a second to either:
A) Loose control, and land it
B) Gain control, and hover it stable for about 10 seconds.
During that timeframe right after takeoff it will drift around by 2-3 feet in any given direction, occasionally hitting something but I've been pretty good about landing it first, never hit anything with it fully powered. But once I get it wrangled under control I can hover it fairly stable (drifting by a foot one way or the other, with fairly stable elevation).
I normally loose it because it suddenly drifts by a bit and I overcorrect, or because I get too high in the air (3-4 feet) and I find once I'm climbing that high it's easier to drift suddenly to one side or the other so I do a "controlled crash" to save things like my 42" LCD TV lol...

I got your email address and replied to you,, Let play on email and then if you like what we do we can post it here for others to read,, I'm having a lot of problems with my computer and this site so it's a pain in the butt sometimes for me on here today..
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Old Nov 20, 2009, 03:44 PM
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BC, Canada
Joined Oct 2009
31 Posts
Hey Glasswalker,
How ya doing eh! I have just started to get a handle on my 4#3B DBL. I have a CB100 that got me flying and then moved back to the 4#3, so far I have found that the tail hold is not great........ so yes I would say that it is common. When I first get the 4#3 in the air the tail yaws to the left as the power gets lower in the battery it will hold in the center, then as flight time is getting low it will yaw to the right. At first I was landing and counter trimming, but now I leave the trim at 50% and counter with the rudder stick. This takes some practice.

My CB100 does the same thing, the 2g bushed tail motor seems to be the problem, it just isn't able to give consistent tail authority(I think it looses power as it heats up). Some guys have upgraded to the 2.9g tail motor which has bearings and they have had better results. Not really a cheap fix, but I may got this route myself someday.

Another thing I did was to move the control rod ball ends on the servo arms in one hole, this seems to limit the throw on the swash, so when you do a panic adjustment on the right stick the heli doesn't go nuts and over correct.

Terry
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Old Nov 20, 2009, 04:18 PM
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livonia bob's Avatar
United States, MI, Livonia
Joined Apr 2009
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Originally Posted by Whizzy1 View Post
Hey Glasswalker,
How ya doing eh! I have just started to get a handle on my 4#3B DBL. I have a CB100 that got me flying and then moved back to the 4#3, so far I have found that the tail hold is not great........ so yes I would say that it is common. When I first get the 4#3 in the air the tail yaws to the left as the power gets lower in the battery it will hold in the center, then as flight time is getting low it will yaw to the right. At first I was landing and counter trimming, but now I leave the trim at 50% and counter with the rudder stick. This takes some practice.

My CB100 does the same thing, the 2g bushed tail motor seems to be the problem, it just isn't able to give consistent tail authority(I think it looses power as it heats up). Some guys have upgraded to the 2.9g tail motor which has bearings and they have had better results. Not really a cheap fix, but I may got this route myself someday.

Another thing I did was to move the control rod ball ends on the servo arms in one hole, this seems to limit the throw on the swash, so when you do a panic adjustment on the right stick the heli doesn't go nuts and over correct.

Terry
Maybe after a while of holding pressure against that spring you will just remove it like I did.. No more trimming ever. I like it so much I removed the other two springs also... Bob
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