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Old Nov 19, 2012, 09:04 AM
4 blades! Scale blades!
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Originally Posted by viper1216 View Post
So I'm going to be ordering my F16 today. I noticed it calls for 11 servo's...I'm trying to figure out why? The one I'm ordering has the air retracts...so by my count..

Ailerons x 2
Flaps x 2
Elevator x 2
Rudder x 1
Gear actuator x 1

That's 8...where am I missing 3 servos? It's electric so don't need throttle...
+1 steering

Probably is a remnant from the mechanical retracts era
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 09:10 AM
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Ah forgot about the steering...that makes sense then..you're right, probably same listed specs from the mechanical retracts. I may go belly lander anyway so I can omit the servo's involving the gear. Still up in the air on it though. I really like the way it looks with the gear...I'll wait till it comes in, and then make my decision then. My flying season is pretty much done, so will be working on it over the winter anyway.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by viper1216 View Post
Ah forgot about the steering...that makes sense then..you're right, probably same listed specs from the mechanical retracts. I may go belly lander anyway so I can omit the servo's involving the gear. Still up in the air on it though. I really like the way it looks with the gear...I'll wait till it comes in, and then make my decision then. My flying season is pretty much done, so will be working on it over the winter anyway.
Your winter is coming? Why not to try to fit skis and fly it off the snow? That would be interesting project for EDF powered model. Even more interesting would be taking off with an EDF from large 120m ski jump. Anyone done that in Nth/hemi yet? I haven't seen only Eddy the Eagle jumping off it but seen also Mini Cooper, quad bike and MX-bike as well, they all survived!, J.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 02:01 AM
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LOL Jofro!
I think they do have some real F-16;s fitted with ski's that operate out of the Sth Pole!
(from a secret military base there).
It makes them look a bit like Star Wars X-Wing fighters.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 02:38 PM
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Well, after moving, I finally opened the box on my F-16 yesterday. Was excited to find it is actually the grey scale I wanted and not the blue camo the box was labeled for. Looking at upgrading the push rods. Anyone know a good diameter as I'm pretty sure I read the stock ones are junk. Also, anyone know where I can get an exhaust tube? I've read that a 25mm will work, but I'll be damned if I can find one.

Thanks for any and all help!!
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 10:05 PM
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For all my aircraft pushrods, from 1000mm to 1600mm aircraft, I use these alloy clevises listed below. They are fantastic! Strong, easily adjustable. Just loctite the screws with blue loctite. Drill control horns for 2.0mm and you will have a perfect zero slop fit.

For the pushrods I use 1.5mm/1.6mm piano wire. And make a Z-band using the HobbyKing Z-Bend tool, the the other end is clamped in the alloy clevis. Drill you servo control horn to 1.5mm
This is suitable for the ailerons, flaps, rudder of the F-16.

For heavier needs, such as the F-16 elevator pushrods, I use 2mm threaded rod (listed below also). Use a nylon clevis on the threaded end of the pushrod (also listed below) and the alloy clevis on the other end. The nylon clevis has a 1.5mm pin, so once again drill the servo control horn to 1.5mm.

I think all the pics etc are in my build log:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1587556
PS: Quite a bit has changed on mine in recent days/week. I have to check if the build log has the info. MUCH better oleos, wheels, and retract mounting - because the stock ones are very weak in the foam, because they are not large enough for the foam to hold them on! If you fly off only a hard runway, the stock basic mounts are ok... unless you bang in a landing!! But for grass, or even just grass landings, they will tear out soon enough.
So I will update the build log soon..... BIG mods, making for very robust landing gear now!!
But it is a beautiful plane, so it is worth all the efforts spent on it!!

If you buy those bits below, buy LOTS in the one order! LOL. Whatever you think you will need into the future. eg 20 of each item.
...

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ntrol_Rod.html

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...arehouse_.html

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...0pcs_set_.html

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...mm_10pcs_.html
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 10:21 PM
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Boy.... the build log got left well behind!
A LOT of things were changed along the way, so I will have to update that.
But I will be making a Build Log in my Blog, so that will cover only what ended up being done. Seeing some things still fail, or are not adequate, either stock things even even some mods.
But now it is all done very well and is really nice!!
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 04:45 PM
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Hey, JoFro.... where do you balance your F-16?
I am running 6S 5800mAH and with the battery all the way rearwards it is still nose heavy..... well, if I go by the 110mm CoFG point. It wallows around dragging its tail....
How does 8S all balance up? Two batteries used I guess?
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 05:59 PM
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Well, my new strengthened nose gear survived totally intact mounting-wise.... but the nose gear retract pin bent badly instead, of course!
I am thinking this is not a jet to ever land on grass!!

...

It was a fairly major project....
I cut off a length of the fuselage underbelly, almost to the main retract starting point - slicing down the glue joint, then across the fuselage.

I cut a LARGE rectangular area out from the inside, for a retract mounting plate to be put in - using a 3mm plywood plate. This is made to extend longer past the ends of the required retract and wheel bay area, so that external plates can be used to bolt into the internal main plate to make an extemely strong total strength - by "clamping" via the EPO foam. Mind you the main plate is epoxied in strongly too - but that would fracture and fail over time if only that was done.

This large plate area allowed mounting the retract the 'proper' way (off its top) for a pushrod steering system to be implemented optimally.
The foam in this area is 'destroyed' from numerous retract breaking out cases etc, but I will fix it all up to be just the bare minimum opening area required later on. The external "clamping" plates will be filled over and painted too.

The steering servo, I changed to a MG one and laid it sidewards so that it is down and out of view now.

For re-assembly I inserted three carbon fibre rods longitudally to the rear end of the "front cut-off", so that it gets a lot of its attachment strength back via those rods, not just the UHU POR used to glue it back on with. The rods are expoxied into the front portion, but just slide fit into the rear. This still allows slicing off the glue joint again if ever required.

"Stress testing" shows this assembly is as strong as the plane!! It spreads the forces over a very large area and if it breaks out ever then you have had some serious crash!! LOL
Anything you ever 'strengthen' needs to have the right balance of "what fails first, and under what situation". Such as, it should ALL survive any situation up to X amount above typical, eg survive quite heavy landings with no aircraft detriment at all.... and if you go over that X amount, then you have encountered a situation where there is more to worry about than just some cracked out landing gear bay!!
Another good "stress balances" test/result of retracts is that the RETRACT PIN should be what BENDS under "Above average landing stress", NOT have the mounts or retract itself break.

For the mains, I had already put an alloy plate over the stock plastic retract 'bay' - not for strength, but to allow repositioning of the retract a bit more rearwards, whilst also bringing the retract unit outwards of the fuselage just a bit. This was just so I could set up the required oleo leg length, and final wheel storage and static AoA stance of the F-16.

For strengthening - seeing one of the main retracts tore out on a grass landing too!! - I drilled a 3mm hole through the retract plastic 'bay' to allow another form of "clamping plate" to be put inside the fuselage/ducting and thus add many many times the strength to the retract bay fixture. By default the bay relies just on CA/foam-glue to hold it in, and that just tears out of the foam easily anyway!
Ideally the internal plate should have been quite a bit larger, but also CURVED to suit the ducting wall shape, but that is much too hard to do on the F-16 with the underbelly already glued on. Otherwise I would have done that and used dimensions double in each direction to give FOUR times the area of "clamping plate". That would give a result as strong as the nose area.... but this current method will still be very good, and probably adequate anyway.
By NOT having that larger plate, it lowers the level of stress (incident) that could tear the whole clamping plate out of the underbelly!! But I think even this area size it has will not have that occur unless you encountered that "more to worry about than retracts" situation!

....

On today's grass landing - which was not overly rough, but also was not as nice and smooth as more typical - the main gear retracts remained fully intact..... no retract issue, and no landing gear pin issue either. But they have 'motor shaft' hardened 4mm pins - which is a debatable thing to even use, as you WANT the pins to be the first point of stress failure anyway!
But as mentioned.... if ALL portion of a system can all cope with stresses, then that is fine.... the issue comes when the WEAKEST LINK is found! And you don't want that to be be plane/foam, you want it to be a retract pin, or a glue joint etc.

...
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Last edited by PeterVRC; Jan 03, 2013 at 06:04 PM.
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 06:14 PM
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I had also added some cheaters, to try to regain some of the bench test CS12 power level.....
I don't think they helped too much at all.

I made them angular, so there are some 'edges' to help make more white noise. I couldn't really tell if there was any sound difference, but it has a very nice "CS12 whoosh" sound in flight anyway.

The "very early days CS12", which I have not disassembled to measure the rotor weight so I can tell if it is a stronger version one or not, has worked fine anyway. The 3025-1500kv (heli 1500w) motor seems to be happy with its job too. Maybe the 6S 5800mAH 30C "IR limitation" total means it is never under too much stress anyway - but I think it was 95Amps area WOT/Peak, dropping to more like mid/high 80's later.
Though I have a 6S 5000mAH 65C I also use - which I didn't see much value in any final power gain from it anyway!
I need to do a set of static tests of things again sooner or later....

Oh, and I really need a thrust tube in this, to tody up the exhaust path.... but I will open out the exhaust more first.

...
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 09:55 PM
Extreme CNC Alloy EDF
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MY F16 is right up at the start of this thread I think. I used 256 rods and metal clevices, taileron mod panels at the back to support the elevators, much like the small F16. Mine had the LE flaps, I junked the hinges and used CA hinges for them, worked brilliantly never any flutter.

Power system was 6s wemo running 2200w and 3.5kg thrust, did around 100-110mph and was rock solid in the air, had the original cheaters and hand launched much like the 90mm Mirage does, floated out on the wing. Wouldnt mind building another one of these down the track, was a nice model. Guy who bought mine still flying it afaik.
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Old Jan 04, 2013, 07:51 AM
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Thanks for all the info guys. I think I have everything I need for it now. Hoping to get started on it this weekend.

Thanks
Dave
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 09:21 AM
Houston. .we have a problem.
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V3 Question

Hey guys, I'm just about to pull the trigger on one of these.

I hear that the v3 has better intake/ducting. Is this true, or just a rumour?
Anyone had the v3 and the previous, to confirm this?

Where is the air tank located for the retracts on the V3? i.e., is it easy to remove?
I want to go with electric retracts. Air retracts are like history to me. There's no future in it.

Pity I cant find an "airframe only" option anywhere at the moment, so I'm going to have to gut a PNP.

Is there still a weight located in the nose cone, too?

Thanks!
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 09:27 AM
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Not sure what version I have...I have an ARF. From what I've seen, the airtank is in the nose area. I went with some elec retracts I got from HK...took some modifications to make them fit, but so much easier to deal with than the air.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOX ONE! View Post
Hey guys, I'm just about to pull the trigger on one of these.

I hear that the v3 has better intake/ducting. Is this true, or just a rumour?
Anyone had the v3 and the previous, to confirm this?

Where is the air tank located for the retracts on the V3? i.e., is it easy to remove?
I want to go with electric retracts. Air retracts are like history to me. There's no future in it.

Pity I cant find an "airframe only" option anywhere at the moment, so I'm going to have to gut a PNP.

Is there still a weight located in the nose cone, too?

Thanks!
It seems to be in stock here in kit form

http://www.rc-holic.com/index.php?ro...t&product_id=5
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