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Old Jun 26, 2012, 03:08 AM
KK Tri Flyer
mattcro's Avatar
United Kingdom, Scotland, Glasgow
Joined Feb 2012
346 Posts
You should try to get your copter mechanically balanced as far as possible, since that should help it fly equally well in any direction.

If your centre of gravity is off to one side, then you'll need to use some TX trim to make it fly level - that'll basically make one or two motors work a bit harder to keep the heavy side up. A gyro-only controller like KK can't automatically keep the copter level. You need an accelerometer for that.
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Old Jun 26, 2012, 07:11 AM
Registered User
Joined Jun 2012
1 Posts
Hi everybody!

I'm new to the RC world, and I want to try it, so I thought about building KK's quadrocopter. I'll buy the parts mentioned on the first page, but I need your help in selecting the motors, Tx/Rx etc. I spent some time on Hobbyking and other related sites and thought about these:

3 HK401B gyro
4 Hacker Style Brushless Outrunner 20-28M
4 TURNIGY Plush 18amp ESC
Parrot AR Drone Propeller Combo (AD09*2 & AD09R*2 ) propellers
Hobby King 2.4Ghz 6Ch Tx & Rx V2 (Mode 2)
On-Board Lipoly Low Voltage Alarm 2s~3s

Can you recommend an AVR and a good battery? Is it worth to upgrade the Atmega48 to let's say 328? I learned assembly so it can happen that I'll write some code for it later.

Overall, what do think about these parts? Do I miss something? What flying distance and time should I expect? I'd be happy with ~1 km If it will fly, I'll try aerial photography or even FPV later.

Thanks in advance!
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Old Jun 26, 2012, 08:54 AM
Master of Flash
LazyZero's Avatar
Alsdorf/Eifel, Germany
Joined Jun 2005
1,576 Posts
No need to buy the HK401 any more as the hardware of them changed. You can also buy a populated HK kk2.1 with ATmega 168 for 15 Bucks.

Christian
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Old Jun 26, 2012, 12:28 PM
T.ing to put on air 100 models
chiloschista's Avatar
Switzerland
Joined Feb 2008
696 Posts
Hi all,

today I decided to mount my HK V3 KKcontroller, flashed with r4.7 firmware.
The most time was spent figuring out why the motor layout did not match on any information I had (X configuration). Then I finally found the post here where this was explained. All the rest was an easy task.
Thank you very much to Rolf (kapteinkuk) for starting this, to Christian (LazyZero) for flashing tool and code repository (hope I got it right ) and all other who contributed to this project.

Yes, I'm really happy, because I was finally able to fly my Arducopter frame in the way I always wanted to : hard !

It was my experience before that Integral is not good for quad and today I confirmed my thought. If I set integral on any value other than zero, the quad assumes the attitude it is flying as neutral and I really don't like that.

On another side I tried to lower the tilt P gain (roll control, right ?), but the quad still wobbles a little. I'm at about 25% (?, the screw is at 10:30 o'clock assuming 12 is 50%). I can't notice any change in tilt Proportional gain, why ?
Do I have to expect always a little wobbling (not nice when recording videos) ?.
Btw, I'm a fan of low gains.

On motors side it runs really smooth. I'm wondering now if reflash the ESCs firmware or not. Which would be the real advantage in my case, other than better consumption and temperature (both not a problem right now) ?

Is there still the acro mode ?
I saw on flash tool that there are several firmwares for aggressive flying etc. Could someone point me toward posts and papers about those firmwares, if they ever exists ?

Thanks and best regards,

Ric

P.s.: I really would like an heli like yaw control, say more authoritative.
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Old Jun 27, 2012, 03:37 AM
Registered User
Slovenia, Ljubljana
Joined Sep 2011
1,548 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiloschista View Post
Hi all,

today I decided to mount my HK V3 KKcontroller, flashed with r4.7 firmware.
The most time was spent figuring out why the motor layout did not match on any information I had (X configuration). Then I finally found the post here where this was explained. All the rest was an easy task.
Thank you very much to Rolf (kapteinkuk) for starting this, to Christian (LazyZero) for flashing tool and code repository (hope I got it right ) and all other who contributed to this project.

Yes, I'm really happy, because I was finally able to fly my Arducopter frame in the way I always wanted to : hard !

It was my experience before that Integral is not good for quad and today I confirmed my thought. If I set integral on any value other than zero, the quad assumes the attitude it is flying as neutral and I really don't like that.

On another side I tried to lower the tilt P gain (roll control, right ?), but the quad still wobbles a little. I'm at about 25% (?, the screw is at 10:30 o'clock assuming 12 is 50%). I can't notice any change in tilt Proportional gain, why ?
Do I have to expect always a little wobbling (not nice when recording videos) ?.
Btw, I'm a fan of low gains.

On motors side it runs really smooth. I'm wondering now if reflash the ESCs firmware or not. Which would be the real advantage in my case, other than better consumption and temperature (both not a problem right now) ?

Is there still the acro mode ?
I saw on flash tool that there are several firmwares for aggressive flying etc. Could someone point me toward posts and papers about those firmwares, if they ever exists ?

Thanks and best regards,

Ric

P.s.: I really would like an heli like yaw control, say more authoritative.
A little wobble is ok. But only when releasinfg sticks. If you want to have more yaw control you must change it in the source code and then build .hex file.

Video for propper PI tunning:
Multicopter PI-tuning: How to recognize different settings. (7 min 52 sec)
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Old Jun 27, 2012, 03:55 AM
Master of Flash
LazyZero's Avatar
Alsdorf/Eifel, Germany
Joined Jun 2005
1,576 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiloschista View Post

Is there still the acro mode ?
I saw on flash tool that there are several firmwares for aggressive flying etc. Could someone point me toward posts and papers about those firmwares, if they ever exists ?
Yes there are some compilations with more Stick response. In the FAQ section of kkflashtool.de you will find a bit info on that.

Christian
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Old Jun 28, 2012, 09:15 AM
T.ing to put on air 100 models
chiloschista's Avatar
Switzerland
Joined Feb 2008
696 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by er9xuser View Post
A little wobble is ok. But only when releasinfg sticks. If you want to have more yaw control you must change it in the source code and then build .hex file.

Video for propper PI tunning: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNzqTGEl2xQ
Hi, very interesting video thanks.

Ric
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Old Jun 28, 2012, 09:20 AM
T.ing to put on air 100 models
chiloschista's Avatar
Switzerland
Joined Feb 2008
696 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by LazyZero View Post
Yes there are some compilations with more Stick response. In the FAQ section of kkflashtool.de you will find a bit info on that.

Christian
Thanks Christian. Will see what I'm going to do next.
I still have to figure out which would be the benefits of using I therm and if I have to change my mind on piloting those things
Attached is a video from one of my firsts flights.

Best regards,

Ric

KKcopter01 (2 min 59 sec)
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Old Jun 28, 2012, 12:16 PM
T.ing to put on air 100 models
chiloschista's Avatar
Switzerland
Joined Feb 2008
696 Posts
Hi,

I tried Integral term today and have to say I'm a little more convinced about its benefits.
But usually I term job is to compensate error building in the time.
In this case it seems to me that it is more a heading hold feature.
Am I missing something ?

Anyway it was helping me a lot holding the quad in windy conditions (gusts up to 9m/sec).

Ric
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 05:31 AM
Registered User
Slovenia, Ljubljana
Joined Sep 2011
1,548 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiloschista View Post
Hi,

I tried Integral term today and have to say I'm a little more convinced about its benefits.
But usually I term job is to compensate error building in the time.
In this case it seems to me that it is more a heading hold feature.
Am I missing something ?

Anyway it was helping me a lot holding the quad in windy conditions (gusts up to 9m/sec).

Ric
I term is heading hold function.
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 05:44 AM
T.ing to put on air 100 models
chiloschista's Avatar
Switzerland
Joined Feb 2008
696 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by er9xuser View Post
I term is heading hold function.
Sorry I don't agree, but better than me this explanation does not agree also.
I term is correcting an attitude error which build up in the time.
In a quad case, e.g. flying forward, you would have the controller assuming that this is the actual right attitude and will set it as neutral. To bring it back you should hold the quad in a backward position for some time.

But this controller does not have this feature (absolute stabilization). It only acts as a "usual" gyro, not as a more complex stabilizations / navigation unit as UavDevBoard (or many other) could be.
Heading hold is assuming that the actual position is to be held (not in the time). You can sudden change it as you want, which is not possible with a real I term stabilization. This last one would only correct it back with time.

Ric

P.s.: just as a further help to understand read this.
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 05:50 AM
Registered User
Joined Apr 2012
4 Posts
I'm at the point of assembling my quadcopter and I have a question.

Which settings do I program the esc with? I've read the Multicopter FAQ and have these settings:

Batt: NimH (even when using Lipos)
Governor mode: Off
Start: according to the FAQ normal but I can choose between Very Soft, Soft and Start acceleration, which one do I choose?
Brake: Off
Timing: choice between Auto, Low 7-22 and High 22-30 (which one?)
Rotation: forward
Cutoff voltage: off is ideal according to FAQ, can choose between 2.8V/50%, 3V/60% and 3.2V/65% (is 2.8 the right choice here?)
Cutoff power: reduce or stop? (probably reduce)

So I need some advice on start, timing, cutoff voltage and cutoff power.

Thanks
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Last edited by DutchCopter; Jul 15, 2012 at 08:41 AM. Reason: Found info in faq
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 10:43 AM
If it flies, I will crash it
mxspode's Avatar
USA, CO, Westminster
Joined Jan 2008
3,040 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchCopter View Post
I'm at the point of assembling my quadcopter and I have a question.

Which settings do I program the esc with? I've read the Multicopter FAQ and have these settings:

Batt: NimH (even when using Lipos)
Governor mode: Off
Start: according to the FAQ normal but I can choose between Very Soft, Soft and Start acceleration, which one do I choose? Start Acceleration I would think. You do not want any sort of Soft.
Brake: Off
Timing: choice between Auto, Low 7-22 and High 22-30 (which one?) Start with Auto, you may need to adjust from there.
Rotation: forward This is fine, you may use this to change direction or just switch any two wires going to the motor.
Cutoff voltage: off is ideal according to FAQ, can choose between 2.8V/50%, 3V/60% and 3.2V/65% (is 2.8 the right choice here?) If you set the batt type to Nimh this has no effect so it doesn't matter.
Cutoff power: reduce or stop? (probably reduce) Reduce, sudden stop is bad. Lowered power you may survive from.

So I need some advice on start, timing, cutoff voltage and cutoff power.

Thanks
Answers in the quoted text above in Red.

Rob...
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 01:33 PM
Foam Snow
South Africa, WC, Cape Town
Joined Aug 2011
1,334 Posts
I have a + copter and I have a problem with two motors cutting out on low throttle. When I start up and I give 50% throttle, all motors spins up and work correctly, flyable (on small props).

When I reduce throttle to less than 50%, motors north and south (1 and 4 I think) cuts out. I have to reduce throttle to zero, then up again past 50% before they spin again.

I thought it was the ESCs, but if I changes the plugs on the motor outputs on the board, the problem moves to the other motors. I've done the ESC throttle range etc. many times, with and without the board.

I've finished my quad a month ago, but I've been having this problem since and simply can't fly it.

I've got the HK 2.1 board, tried with default firmware and CptKuk 4.7, problem persists.

Is my board faulty?

Many thanks
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Old Jul 17, 2012, 03:44 AM
Registered User
Slovenia, Ljubljana
Joined Sep 2011
1,548 Posts
Set your esc's to medium timing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by heinduplessis View Post
I have a + copter and I have a problem with two motors cutting out on low throttle. When I start up and I give 50% throttle, all motors spins up and work correctly, flyable (on small props).

When I reduce throttle to less than 50%, motors north and south (1 and 4 I think) cuts out. I have to reduce throttle to zero, then up again past 50% before they spin again.

I thought it was the ESCs, but if I changes the plugs on the motor outputs on the board, the problem moves to the other motors. I've done the ESC throttle range etc. many times, with and without the board.

I've finished my quad a month ago, but I've been having this problem since and simply can't fly it.

I've got the HK 2.1 board, tried with default firmware and CptKuk 4.7, problem persists.

Is my board faulty?

Many thanks
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