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Old Aug 07, 2010, 06:24 AM
a little boy's dream come true
bob.titus's Avatar
France, Corse, Santo-Pietro-di-Tenda
Joined May 2009
3,366 Posts
Great Kaptein, thanks for all

Bob
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapteinkuk View Post
Hello, now I have added MK style arming / disarming to the Quad software. It will be added to the others soon.

Collective down and yaw left for off.
Collective down and yaw right for on.

The LED will show the current status.
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 06:29 AM
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Edje11's Avatar
The Netherlands
Joined Jul 2010
17 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapteinkuk View Post
Hello, now I have added MK style arming / disarming to the Quad software.
What's MK Style?
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 06:36 AM
No, it's the same plane ...
jjk77's Avatar
Deutschland, Nordrhein-Westfalen, Bochum
Joined Jul 2010
150 Posts
Hi there,

the partlist at the beginning of the thread and on kkmulticopter.com says:

Quote:
Originally Posted by kapteinkuk View Post
.
V5 (SMD) Parts list:

IC1: Atmega48/88/168/328 (TQFP) (from some of the gyros)

C1: 47uF (EIA 3528-21 / Kemet B) (From the HK401B gyro)
C2: 47uF (EIA 3528-21 / Kemet B) (From the HK401B gyro)
C3: 47uF (EIA 3528-21 / Kemet B) (From the HK401B gyro)
C4: 47uF (EIA 3528-21 / Kemet B) (From the HK401B gyro)
C7: 47uF (EIA 3528-21 / Kemet B) (From the HK401B gyro)
C9: 47uF (EIA 3528-21 / Kemet B) (From the HK401B gyro)
C11: 47uF (EIA 3528-21 / Kemet B) (From the HK401B gyro)
I just received my electronic parts and have missordered* the 47F Tantals and thougth i could then use them from the gyro boards as the partlist says. But the gyros seems to be completly new designed or something else. I only found 3 tantals with 22F, no 47F and no TQFP Atmega. Do i have the wrong gyros? Can't belive no one has this problem before ... I ordered these: Hobby King 401B AVCS Digital Head Lock Gyro and nothing matches.

regards
jens

* Type B requiered, only Type D was available
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 06:37 AM
Gravity sucks :)
Indonesia
Joined Jul 2005
925 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edje11 View Post
What's MK Style?
Just like what KapteinKUK said:

Collective down and yaw left = motors off.
Collective down and yaw right = motors on.

So when you plug the lipo, the motors won't spin unless you do "collective down + yaw right".
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 07:39 AM
Registered User
Argentina, San Luis
Joined Feb 2006
47 Posts
hmmm... it sounds like german to me
( mikrokontroller perhaps? )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edje11 View Post
What's MK Style?
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 07:43 AM
No, it's the same plane ...
jjk77's Avatar
Deutschland, Nordrhein-Westfalen, Bochum
Joined Jul 2010
150 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewta View Post
hmmm... it sounds like german to me
( mikrokontroller perhaps? )
Mikrokopter is another controllingboard for a quad. See http://www.mikrokopter.de/ucwiki/en/MikroKopter ... And this controller arms the motors only with a special position of the sticks ...
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 08:07 AM
Registered User
Argentina, San Luis
Joined Feb 2006
47 Posts
Hi ;

living 43 km south west of 33S 66W . Closest rc local shop is 450 km ( few common glow items ) and overseas deliveries ussually take more than 30 days to arrive.
With 4 x 30A escs on hand and still wating for the last 2 parcels i ordered a month ago... I LOVE THIS PLUSH 30s!

Talking about weight, finished Quadrufo is 705g including 2100 mAh battery.
Yesn next objective will be a weight reduction. Do not want to reduce size by now. better visibility... and the idea is to get a stable aerial video platform.

Today will try motors High timming , still clicking at medium.

Lewta

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob.titus View Post
glad you sorted your problem Lewta
One thing about your configuration, your 30A Plush really are overkill for the 20-20L driving a 10" propeller.
You will draw a maximum of 15A per motor with your 3s battery, so even a 12A esc would do the job and a 18A would be on the safe side, but still slightly overkill unless you fly like Warthox
The benefit of using smaller escs : less weight, and weight really matters on a quad!
Clicking noise = wrong timing.
You can set higher or lower timing and see if it solves the problem, it did cure the clicking many times on my setups.
Beware that incorrect timing can result in motors shuting down in flight with an horrible squeeking sound when you are asking too much power too fast (followed by the sound of the quad hitting the ground)!

Bob
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 09:04 AM
Registered User
Joined Mar 2010
379 Posts
power tower and camera stabi

Hello KapteinKUK,

thanks for your power tower code.. i have started building your power tower and camera stabilisation system .. soon i will put video

your pan/tilt stabilizer was great,
i have a doubt, i noticed that you have placed one gyro on board and another on the platfrom .. is there is any specific reason for that, and is that controller is same as kk controller ... will that be able to stabilize in all the axis .. pitch yaw and roll ..

i saw your powertower video long before .. and just you have realsed code for it.. thanks .. im building one .. and you said it has got pilot induced oscillation in pitch axis .i dont know how far im correct, please correct me if im worng .. one of the reason for such oscillation may be due to the very low CG from the airframe..

during forward motion it goes normal ,when pilot stops forward motion and due to moment of the battery it oscillates like a pendulum .. this makes the pitch oscillation

i think it can be reduced by using a tail with horizontal stabilizer .. so it stops the oscillations to some how .. please correct me if im wrong

thanks again

helmet
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 09:33 AM
Registered User
Brisbane, Australia
Joined Mar 2010
152 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by quaddynamics View Post
your pan/tilt stabilizer was great,
i have a doubt, i noticed that you have placed one gyro on board and another on the platfrom .. is there is any specific reason for that
I think I know what the reason is (KK, please correct me if I'm wrong).

The gyros on the "flight" controller sense rotations around the yaw,pitch and roll axes of the body frame of the copter.
No matter how the copter is oriented in space, these axes stay the same with respect to the helicopter. Contrast this with the camera gimbal, which has several servos. If you move the outermost part of the gimbal you change the axis of rotation for the inner gimbals. So unlike the (y,p,r)-axes of the quad the rotation axes for the gimbal are not fixed.
While it is possible to mathematically transform the rotation rates measured by the gyros of the flight computer (pitch, roll, yaw) into the rotation rates for the gimbal axes (pan, tilt, roll) it is much easier to simply place a gyro on the gimble axes that you want to stabilize.
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 09:57 AM
a little boy's dream come true
bob.titus's Avatar
France, Corse, Santo-Pietro-di-Tenda
Joined May 2009
3,366 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edje11 View Post
What's MK Style?
it's explained the line just after
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 10:01 AM
a little boy's dream come true
bob.titus's Avatar
France, Corse, Santo-Pietro-di-Tenda
Joined May 2009
3,366 Posts
of course, that makes perfect sense, I wasn't aware of it.
This was for your info, now the 30A will do a great job for sure, and no risk to see the bursting into flames

Bob
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewta View Post
Hi ;

living 43 km south west of 33S 66W . Closest rc local shop is 450 km ( few common glow items ) and overseas deliveries ussually take more than 30 days to arrive.
With 4 x 30A escs on hand and still wating for the last 2 parcels i ordered a month ago... I LOVE THIS PLUSH 30s!

Talking about weight, finished Quadrufo is 705g including 2100 mAh battery.
Yesn next objective will be a weight reduction. Do not want to reduce size by now. better visibility... and the idea is to get a stable aerial video platform.

Today will try motors High timming , still clicking at medium.

Lewta
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 10:39 AM
No, it's the same plane ...
jjk77's Avatar
Deutschland, Nordrhein-Westfalen, Bochum
Joined Jul 2010
150 Posts
@KapteinKUK:
Is there a chance that the controller is working with other potmeter than this

Code:
10 KOhm trim potmeter (3314j) (From the HK401B gyro)
I desoldered one hk401B gyro pcb and also the potmeter are not the same anymore. I have measured nearly 25K not 10K. Or ist it right that a 10K pot can have 25K resistance between to legs?

At this point it is kind of frustrating to get all the peaces together but than nothing seems to be as aspected.
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 10:56 AM
Registered User
Norge, stfold
Joined Aug 2010
4 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulg View Post
Did you test if your Atmega clockspeed is correct with the clocktest firmware first? If it isn't, then you forgot to (or simply didn't) set the fuses correctly.

If that's not it, someone else will have to chime in, because that's as far as I got with my KKcontrollers (still building my quad & tri frames)...

Cheers,
Ben.
I ordered it pre programmed. I have just ordered a USBASP AVR Programmer, so I'll have to wait until it arrives before I can check the setup.

Thanks
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 11:19 AM
Quad Whisperer
Joined Jul 2008
943 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by quaddynamics View Post
Hello KapteinKUK,

thanks for your power tower code.. i have started building your power tower and camera stabilisation system .. soon i will put video

your pan/tilt stabilizer was great,
i have a doubt, i noticed that you have placed one gyro on board and another on the platfrom .. is there is any specific reason for that, and is that controller is same as kk controller ... will that be able to stabilize in all the axis .. pitch yaw and roll ..

i saw your powertower video long before .. and just you have realsed code for it.. thanks .. im building one .. and you said it has got pilot induced oscillation in pitch axis .i dont know how far im correct, please correct me if im worng .. one of the reason for such oscillation may be due to the very low CG from the airframe..

during forward motion it goes normal ,when pilot stops forward motion and due to moment of the battery it oscillates like a pendulum .. this makes the pitch oscillation

i think it can be reduced by using a tail with horizontal stabilizer .. so it stops the oscillations to some how .. please correct me if im wrong

thanks again

helmet
That controller is partly a KKcontroller. It only have 2 gyros for the Pan and tilt axis. The tilt gyro is mounted parallell to the tilt axis, or else I have to use 3 gyros and a load of math.

The oscillations is not only due to the low CG, It is caused by the weak control forces provided by the tilted propeller system. Note that there is no oscillations on the roll axis, still with a low CG.

Also the tilted propeller system in its current form gives a small bit of positive feedback. If the craft tilts forward, the propellers tilt back and the moving mass of the motor gives a bit of forward rotation of the craft. This was very noticable on the much lighter Avatar gunship model. It is neccesary to keep the inertia of the craft much bigger than the inertia of the motor. Lowering the CG was a way to increase the craft's inertia. Also smaller motors would be good. Having a tail with horizontal stabilizer increases the apparent inertia of the craft, like on the Avatar model, but it then became very senitive to tailwind due to the low pitch control forces.

The closest comparable craft, the Osprey, is basically 2 joined helicopters. The strong control forces generated by the rotordisks overcomes these problems.

Hope this makes sense!
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Old Aug 07, 2010, 11:21 AM
Quad Whisperer
Joined Jul 2008
943 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjk77 View Post
Hi there,

the partlist at the beginning of the thread and on kkmulticopter.com says:



I just received my electronic parts and have missordered* the 47F Tantals and thougth i could then use them from the gyro boards as the partlist says. But the gyros seems to be completly new designed or something else. I only found 3 tantals with 22F, no 47F and no TQFP Atmega. Do i have the wrong gyros? Can't belive no one has this problem before ... I ordered these: Hobby King 401B AVCS Digital Head Lock Gyro and nothing matches.

regards
jens

* Type B requiered, only Type D was available
The makers of the HK401B gyro has changed the hardware. I will fix the first post. You can use the 22uF caps instead of the 47uF ones
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