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Old Aug 03, 2010, 09:26 AM
a little boy's dream come true
bob.titus's Avatar
France, Corse, Santo-Pietro-di-Tenda
Joined May 2009
3,366 Posts
zip tie (or double zip tie) is a great way to have perfect centering when the prop is drilled to the correct diameter for the shaft.
Nothing can beat this in terms of precision... and weight... and cost

Bob
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdi3d View Post
I had the same problem with the rctimer motors due to the collet sitting so high - I finally lowered the prop and used a zip tie to hold it on the motor housing and the buzz went away -

Mike
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Old Aug 03, 2010, 09:49 AM
"Let's put a camera on that.."
spagoziak's Avatar
Twin Cities, MN
Joined Feb 2010
1,063 Posts
Ok, so I'm reading as much as I can but

This thread is HUGE! I've been reading since post 1 and I'm up to 75 now, but.... there are 200 to go!! I feel like I've got a pretty good understanding of the kukcopter now, but there's gotta be some more juicy bits in those next 200 posts... but if I want to build this baby before freakin December I'd like to speed this process up. I hate saying that, really...

Perhaps with your help I can cut to the chase? Here's what I know from reading so far:
  • KKM is insanely stable, and really a work of genius. It's also hella cheap to buid.
  • There are several versions of the board. Looks like V6 is the latest, based on what I see at kkmulitcopter.com
  • Building ones own board with a TH design isn't too hard, from the sounds of it. Changing the design, however, is best left to those who are engineers.
  • Programming the atmega will require ... a programming device.
  • Best to use slow props, motors under 1000kv (on 3S lipo), and the Turnigy Plush seems to be the most popular ESC.

Things I'm wondering about:
  • Is anyone offering a pre-built board for sale yet? I can solder a bit, but this project might just well be beyond me.
  • Are there any build logs involving frames? I found a neat log for the kquad elsewhere on RCG that looks great, but what about us here?
  • I've not seen any "go here for all the parts needed" posts yet... is it sort of a free for all, ya never know what you'll get kinda thing?

Thanks for any input folks, I'll keep reading anyway of course... I just want one in hand badly! But also one that works lol...

spag
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Old Aug 03, 2010, 09:58 AM
"Let's put a camera on that.."
spagoziak's Avatar
Twin Cities, MN
Joined Feb 2010
1,063 Posts
Where to get an LC filter

Where do you folks get your LC filters? I've only ever found one, on DPCAV.com and it's $30 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by patricklupo View Post
Greetings,

I have started constructing KapteinKuk's excellent quadcopter build and have made a few minor changes to the schematic I'm putting together. I'm taking my time with the project so it will take me approximately 2 months to order and build the quadcopter, but I'll post my progress and maybe a final build & programming report.

The schematic below has the following changes:
-Added connections for the Atmel 10-pin ISP programmer
-Added a 4.7K resistor & 2.2uF cap to Reset pin 1, to allow the programmer to pull it low
-Deleted the +5 volt connections to Motors 2 thru 4. Ideally you only want one BEC from an ESC powering the circuit and receiver.
-Moved the +5 volt & ground connection from receiver CH1, to CH3; as the throttle channel is typically where the BEC connects in.

Also attached a picture of my PCB board in-progress. I'm building a mini version of the quadcopter with 23 gram outruners and 9 gram ESC's, so the PC board also has to be small. The gyros will go on the right and the PCB will be cut down to 3" by 2.5".

The quad frame will simply be a 5" flat plexiglass disc with 6" x 1" x 1/4" oak or pine arms. The PCB and receiver go on top and battery velcros to the bottom. A camera will mount underneath with the VTx and LC filter on the opposite side.

Instead of header pins, I've ordered 4 servo extensions to cut in half and solder directly to the PCB, for connecting the ESC's and receiver. That way if/when I break one of the arms on the quadcopter, it'll just pull loose from it's 3 pin socket; instead of yank the servo wire from the PCB header. I'll also connect all 4 ESC's 11.1v power wires using JST male/female plugs for the same reason. That way each motor/esc arm can be easily seperated. I'm building my mini quad to be crashed often and easily repaired.

Rolf,

If your unhappy with me posting this schematic modification, let me know and I will immediately remove this post. Thanks again for a great design!
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Old Aug 03, 2010, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spagoziak View Post
This thread is HUGE! I've been reading since post 1 and I'm up to 75 now, but.... there are 200 to go!! I feel like I've got a pretty good understanding of the kukcopter now, but there's gotta be some more juicy bits in those next 200 posts... but if I want to build this baby before freakin December I'd like to speed this process up. I hate saying that, really...

Perhaps with your help I can cut to the chase? Here's what I know from reading so far:
  • KKM is insanely stable, and really a work of genius. It's also hella cheap to buid.
  • There are several versions of the board. Looks like V6 is the latest, based on what I see at kkmulitcopter.com
  • Building ones own board with a TH design isn't too hard, from the sounds of it. Changing the design, however, is best left to those who are engineers.
  • Programming the atmega will require ... a programming device.
  • Best to use slow props, motors under 1000kv (on 3S lipo), and the Turnigy Plush seems to be the most popular ESC.

Things I'm wondering about:
  • Is anyone offering a pre-built board for sale yet? I can solder a bit, but this project might just well be beyond me.
  • Are there any build logs involving frames? I found a neat log for the kquad elsewhere on RCG that looks great, but what about us here?
  • I've not seen any "go here for all the parts needed" posts yet... is it sort of a free for all, ya never know what you'll get kinda thing?

Thanks for any input folks, I'll keep reading anyway of course... I just want one in hand badly! But also one that works lol...

spag
Hi Spagoziak,

There is a classifieds section on the www.kkmulticopter.com site where you can get PCBs, Component sets, semi-populated multicontrollers and fully populated multicontrollers, airframes and programmed ICs. The pricing reflects the levels of completion and how much fun you want to have building it. This is your one stop destination for all the parts you would need.

Populating the board is pretty easy, if time consuming, and there are assembly guides on the site for both multiconrtoller and airframe assembly.

Alternatively you can source the bits and pieces you need locally in terms of components, programmers, ICs etc. Also you could build the PCB yourself if you are comfortable working with etching chemicals, laying tracks and drilling holes. You should find comprehensive instructions and schematics on the website. If there is something that you need to know that is not there let us know and we can put it in.

Cheers,

Niall
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Old Aug 03, 2010, 10:22 AM
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Joined Jul 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob.titus View Post
yes, it's good as long as it's been properly machined and well centered which is not often the case.
Out of all the many different types of prop adapters I've got, none really is well centered, a real shame

Bob
I'm very new to all this, but why are none of the prop adapters centered? Seems to me if the parts are machined on a CNC then you can get perfect precision. Of course you are bolting on a prop that is injected molded so maybe the issue with mate between the precision part and the molded part ??

Justin
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Old Aug 03, 2010, 10:49 AM
Tri-Quad-Hexa-Octo-copters!!
United States, TX, San Antonio
Joined Feb 2007
14,413 Posts
Justin,
The prop balance and then motor balance is a must do for multi-copters for optimum performance. The APC props will require balancing every time. I first prepare the props by sanding any production flashing and sharp edges down. I use a magnetic prop balancer and use clear packing tape usually about a 10mm X 20 to 30cm piece on the light prop blade side 1/3 of the way from the blade's end. Then mount them on the motor and power to hover power with only that motor powered and the other motors unplugged. While the quad is securely tied down, look at the shaft from above and see if it runs true and feel the arm for vibrations. Then stop the motor and mark the prop and motor housing with a line to baseline the prop's position. Then loosen the prop and move it offset to the line about 120 degrees. Note any reductions or increase in vibrations. Move it to the next 120 degree position and retest. Then mount the prop positioned with the least vibrations.
On the prop adapters, I agree the shaft on the motor should be cut if you use the RCTimer adapters to get the prop close to the motor housing. To do this use a Dremel tool to cut the shaft. If you do this then first put some clear packing tape over the motor to prevent metal filings from going into the motor. My personal prop mounting preference is to remove the shaft and put threads on them and use two nuts, a lock-washer and little Loc-tite to secure them.
Hope that helps!
Cheers,
Jim
Quadrocopter and Tricopter Mega Link Index
Quote:
Originally Posted by cncguns View Post
Thanks for the tip. I just received my prop balancer so I should be able to see how out of balance the props are. I'm pretty sure every on the frame is tight.
What method do you guys use to attach the props to the motors? I've seen collets, prop savers and adapters where the prop can attach directly to the motor housing. I'm thinking the adapter method might work really good since that would eliminate any vibrations from the motor shaft.
Thanks,
Justin
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Old Aug 03, 2010, 10:51 AM
www.shop.trisembly.co.za
rcimports's Avatar
South Africa
Joined Oct 2005
1,570 Posts
What I found works is look at all the current copters around, find one you like and bug that person to give you his setup and components used, that way you get something that is proven to work

(Sorry for the guys I bother this way.....)

Quote:
Originally Posted by spagoziak View Post
[*]Are there any build logs involving frames? I found a neat log for the kquad elsewhere on RCG that looks great, but what about us here?[*]I've not seen any "go here for all the parts needed" posts yet... is it sort of a free for all, ya never know what you'll get kinda thing?[/LIST]
spag
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Old Aug 03, 2010, 11:32 AM
"Let's put a camera on that.."
spagoziak's Avatar
Twin Cities, MN
Joined Feb 2010
1,063 Posts
Lol RCI sounds like i'm well on my way then... I've already PM'd the kquad guy about his frame...
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Old Aug 03, 2010, 12:25 PM
a little boy's dream come true
bob.titus's Avatar
France, Corse, Santo-Pietro-di-Tenda
Joined May 2009
3,366 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesolins View Post
Justin,
The prop balance and the My personal prop mounting preference is to remove the shaft and put threads on them and use two nuts, a lock-washer and little Loc-tite to secure them
I agree with you Jim, it is too my preference and I've done it many times, but it's not always easy to do on some hardened steels and may result in a slightly bent shaft if not done properly.
Something else is that most props are drilled to 6mm and most shafts between 3 and 5mm, so centering may be difficult as well, unless you have a lathe in your workshop, then it's a piece of cake
But it's definitely the lightest and cheapest hard prop mounting.

Bob
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Old Aug 03, 2010, 01:11 PM
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Joined Jul 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jesolins View Post
Justin,
The prop balance and then motor balance is a must do for multi-copters for optimum performance. The APC props will require balancing every time. I first prepare the props by sanding any production flashing and sharp edges down. I use a magnetic prop balancer and use clear packing tape usually about a 10mm X 20 to 30cm piece on the light prop blade side 1/3 of the way from the blade's end. Then mount them on the motor and power to hover power with only that motor powered and the other motors unplugged. While the quad is securely tied down, look at the shaft from above and see if it runs true and feel the arm for vibrations. Then stop the motor and mark the prop and motor housing with a line to baseline the prop's position. Then loosen the prop and move it offset to the line about 120 degrees. Note any reductions or increase in vibrations. Move it to the next 120 degree position and retest. Then mount the prop positioned with the least vibrations.
On the prop adapters, I agree the shaft on the motor should be cut if you use the RCTimer adapters to get the prop close to the motor housing. To do this use a Dremel tool to cut the shaft. If you do this then first put some clear packing tape over the motor to prevent metal filings from going into the motor. My personal prop mounting preference is to remove the shaft and put threads on them and use two nuts, a lock-washer and little Loc-tite to secure them.
Hope that helps!
Cheers,
Jim
Quadrocopter and Tricopter Mega Link Index
Thanks for the info about the props. I will do this either tonight or tomorrow night

I weighed the quad today at work and I'm coming in at 948 grams ready to fly with a 3S 2200 battery. I'm curious, what are the weights of your quads? I tried to keep everything as light/strong as possible, but I'm thinking I need to shave some more weight off someplace. The weight of my battery, ESC's and motors alone are 496 grams. I'm using all aluminum fasteners, but I may have to go to nylon to save a few grams. I'm just trying to make the quad as light as possible so I can get as long as possible flight time.

Justin
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Old Aug 03, 2010, 01:21 PM
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The Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdi3d View Post
I had the same problem with the rctimer motors due to the collet sitting so high - I finally lowered the prop and used a zip tie to hold it on the motor housing and the buzz went away -

Mike
Do you have a picture of that?
I don't get the clue; I should say that if you zip tie the prop to the motor housing, with housing attached to the frame, then the prop can't move anymore. I agree that the buzz should be gone then too, but don't think that's the way you meant that...
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Old Aug 03, 2010, 01:24 PM
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United States, CA, San Jose
Joined Jul 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spagoziak View Post
Where do you folks get your LC filters? I've only ever found one, on DPCAV.com and it's $30 3
Hi Spagoziak,

DPCAV's L-C filter comes up to $15 total after shipping for me. I usually just solder together a 470uF 16V axial capacitor and 1mH high current inductor and it cleans up everything for me. You don't even need a PC board, just encase the 2 components together in heatshrink.

On the FPV side I'm looking at a new model $48 600TVL CCD camera with the $45 400mW NGHobbies 1280MHz Tx, and of course L-C filter.

Stay tuned though as I should have my cheapo, durable, lightweight(?) quad copter build posted here within the week.
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Last edited by patricklupo; Aug 03, 2010 at 01:33 PM.
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Old Aug 03, 2010, 01:55 PM
a little boy's dream come true
bob.titus's Avatar
France, Corse, Santo-Pietro-di-Tenda
Joined May 2009
3,366 Posts
I think you have done a very good job, your quad is very light in fact.
You could save probably 50+ grams by getting rid of all the unnecessary connectors and replacing some steel screws by nylon ones and nylon spacers.
Apart from this, you've achieved some very nice machine, especially for a first one
Now, you must concentrate on keeping it in it's original condition

Bob
Quote:
Originally Posted by cncguns View Post
Thanks for the info about the props. I will do this either tonight or tomorrow night

I weighed the quad today at work and I'm coming in at 948 grams ready to fly with a 3S 2200 battery. I'm curious, what are the weights of your quads? I tried to keep everything as light/strong as possible, but I'm thinking I need to shave some more weight off someplace. The weight of my battery, ESC's and motors alone are 496 grams. I'm using all aluminum fasteners, but I may have to go to nylon to save a few grams. I'm just trying to make the quad as light as possible so I can get as long as possible flight time.

Justin
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Old Aug 03, 2010, 02:02 PM
"Let's put a camera on that.."
spagoziak's Avatar
Twin Cities, MN
Joined Feb 2010
1,063 Posts
Wow pretty fancy! Can you show a picture of how its done? I've never done anything like what you describe. In fact, I don't even know what those two things are lol!

But I'm willing to give a shot

Quote:
Originally Posted by patricklupo View Post
Hi Spagoziak,

DPCAV's L-C filter comes up to $15 total after shipping for me. I usually just solder together a 470uF 16V axial capacitor and 1mH high current inductor and it cleans up everything for me. You don't even need a PC board, just encase the 2 components together in heatshrink.

On the FPV side I'm looking at a new model $48 600TVL CCD camera with the $45 400mW NGHobbies 1280MHz Tx, and of course L-C filter.

Stay tuned though as I should have my cheapo, durable, lightweight(?) quad copter build posted here within the week.
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Old Aug 03, 2010, 02:29 PM
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Edje11's Avatar
The Netherlands
Joined Jul 2010
17 Posts
You guys are uploading nice videos from the copters, but still no parts arrived from Hobbyking for me to finish my quadrocopter.
So from me a boring frame milling video.
Milled today my frame and landing gear.
Take a note at the power distribution in the middle of the frame.


Milling my kk quadcopter part1. (0 min 29 sec)
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