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Old Jul 01, 2010, 03:07 AM
Speed Nut
Joined Jan 2010
479 Posts
Hello KapteinKUK,
congrats for the great developements. I have ordered a couple boards to test out your controller. I was wondering if you foresee to implement auto-leveling ability in the near future....
Thanks again for your help.
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Old Jul 01, 2010, 03:59 AM
Registered User
United States, CA, San Jose
Joined Jul 2009
1,360 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcAntonio View Post
Hello KapteinKUK,
congrats for the great developements. I have ordered a couple boards to test out your controller. I was wondering if you foresee to implement auto-leveling ability in the near future....
Thanks again for your help.
Hi MarcAntonio,

Auto-leveling is very difficult to implement using only gyros but appears to not be completely impossible. From what I've heard the TT-Copter V1 board manages to mostly self-level using only gyros and I think the Gaui 330X also does the same without accelerometers, but am not certain. I suspect both require code to detect neutral stick positions and call an elaborate algorithm to pull off the feat, so code space and processor speed may limit it from becoming a possibility on the 8MHz 4K Atmega PIC the KK controller is based on. I also believe that the great success of KapteinKUK's project is due in no small part to the simplicity and inherent stability of the design.

I don't believe either the TT-Copter or Gaui 330X can toggle between heading hold and auto-leveling modes dynamically; without landing first and being reprogrammed to do so. I feel that being able to toggle between HH and self-leveling modes on the fly (literally) is the best of both worlds and only accomplished via accellerometers+gyros, so I'll be upgrading my KK quad copter with an FY-20A. It uses 3 gyros and 3 accellerometers that are able to track poistion at 1200/sec. I'm hopeful it will add a very stable auto-leveling feature, but wouldn't be surprised if was also was able bring the copter out of an uncontrolled spin (given enough altitude). Will post videos and results when I receive and install the stabilizer.
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Old Jul 01, 2010, 04:16 AM
a little boy's dream come true
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France, Corse, Santo-Pietro-di-Tenda
Joined May 2009
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... because it is the flight controller board that will be de-coupled from the frame's vibrations using gell pads or grommets.

Bob
Quote:
Originally Posted by ergocentric View Post
Most heli gyros suggest foam double sided tape for mounting, why the hot glue?

kuk! kuk rules!

pretty please post the gyro code for my curiosity

eric.
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Old Jul 01, 2010, 04:29 AM
Quad Whisperer
Joined Jul 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcAntonio View Post
Hello KapteinKUK,
congrats for the great developements. I have ordered a couple boards to test out your controller. I was wondering if you foresee to implement auto-leveling ability in the near future....
Thanks again for your help.
Thanks

Full autoleveling requires accerellometers, insanely low drift gyros or horizon sensing, so it is not possible with this controller. However, a new design might appear in the future

A basic auto leveling occurs in a normal well trimmed multicopter. My multicopters sit still for many minutes in still air. Also it recovers from moderate speed when letting go of the stick.

This is due to aerodynamic forces, not the controller:
1: The multicopter pitches agains the direction of travel because the front propellers get still, clean air and the back propellers gets downward moving air, giving less lift and a up pitching moment.
2: Center of gravity is below center of lift, giving roll or pitch moment if not level.
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Old Jul 01, 2010, 04:55 AM
Speed Nut
Joined Jan 2010
479 Posts
That is very good news...
Of course the stability and simplicity are the most important features and it's what you have achieved judging from the happy users around the world.
Autoleveling would be nice to have for FPV and far away flying. FPV can be done without autolevelling, but flying far, non FPV, would benefit from the autoleveling features.

It funny that when I am flying my tricopter, a lot of people (non rc people) say, what happened? it's not able to climb up high? It doesn't have the power to "make" it?

it's a pain having to explain that if it goes up more than 100 feet, or 30 meters, it gets near impossible to keep orientation.

I am still using gyros only, so I am looking forward to the upgrade using your board.

What kind of real improvements are in the code, compared to 4 gyro operation?
Is it a faster response time of the Gyros?
I am just curious and impatient not in this particular order
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Old Jul 01, 2010, 04:58 AM
manuLRK
Belgium
Joined Sep 2004
1,528 Posts
stable "autoleveling" tri

Quote:
Originally Posted by kapteinkuk View Post
Thanks

Full autoleveling requires accerellometers, insanely low drift gyros or horizon sensing, so it is not possible with this controller. However, a new design might appear in the future

A basic auto leveling occurs in a normal well trimmed multicopter. My multicopters sit still for many minutes in still air. Also it recovers from moderate speed when letting go of the stick.

This is due to aerodynamic forces, not the controller:
1: The multicopter pitches agains the direction of travel because the front propellers get still, clean air and the back propellers gets downward moving air, giving less lift and a up pitching moment.
2: Center of gravity is below center of lift, giving roll or pitch moment if not level.
If the goal is to have a stable "autoleveling" tri, what are the mechanical points to pay attention to:
1) pitching the motors, how? (to the out/in-side,...?)
2) distance from center of lift far above the center of gravity of the tri...
3)...

ManuLRK
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Old Jul 01, 2010, 06:52 AM
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JussiH's Avatar
3rd stone from the sun
Joined May 2007
2,670 Posts
@ Kaptein.

I just love kitchencounter tech, and will try your reflow method when I get into the workshop again next week.

@ the GoproHD owners:

Which package of GoPro HD did you buy? Motorsports, Surf, Kite or Naked?

Can someone with a GoproHD post some closeups pics and some measurements of the dimensions with the waterprood housing, so that I can start to design a gimbal for it?

Thanks

Jussi
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Old Jul 01, 2010, 07:26 AM
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NL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alll View Post
If the goal is to have a stable "autoleveling" tri, what are the mechanical points to pay attention to:
1) pitching the motors, how? (to the out/in-side,...?)
Someone still should try my idea.... (which so far nobody knows about but me)... but here goes...

To answer your question: no tilting the motors doesn't help.

Someone should build a quadcopter, that has a very light frame, and the COG hanging about 1x to 2x the motor-to-motor distance below the props. The COG ends up being mainly the battery. And the frame would only need to keep the motors apart and right-side-up, but nothing else. The reciever, mixer, and batteries would go "in a basket" hanging from the four motors....

Now instead of stabilizing gyros, you only need a quad mixer. Stability comes from basic physics.... The Kapteinkuk boards have all the hardware, just leave the gyros unconnected, and take the gyro part out of the source code..... (I flew my quad with the HK gyros intact simply inserted into the roll and pitch lines from the reciever My AVR board just functioning as a mixer).
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Old Jul 01, 2010, 08:45 AM
RTFM // copter damaged
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Joined Aug 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 420RcPilot View Post
@ the GoproHD owners:

Which package of GoPro HD did you buy? Motorsports, Surf, Kite or Naked?

Can someone with a GoproHD post some closeups pics and some measurements of the dimensions with the waterprood housing, so that I can start to design a gimbal for it?

Thanks

Jussi
hi
i use the nacked package. and i dont use the waterproof case. not on my single wings and not on my kk tricopter. its too much added weight. i mount the cam with some tape or velcro.
if u want to mount the gopro in a case for better exchange, i would make an lighter case and dont use this waterproof case because of the weight..

markus
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Old Jul 01, 2010, 10:14 AM
Friend is a 4 letter word...
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3rd stone from the sun
Joined May 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warthox View Post
hi
i use the nacked package. and i dont use the waterproof case. not on my single wings and not on my kk tricopter. its too much added weight. i mount the cam with some tape or velcro.
if u want to mount the gopro in a case for better exchange, i would make an lighter case and dont use this waterproof case because of the weight..

markus
Thanks, Markus

How much does the GoPro weigh without the waterproof housing?

But weight is not a big issue, as my quad easily can fly a 1000 gram payload (Was built for 450 gram camera and 150 grams gimbal. The Hexa I am working on will lift even more...

My tricopter can fly a 500 gram payload - no problem.

But of course, less weight means longer flighttime, and I am all for that.

Jussi
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Old Jul 01, 2010, 12:13 PM
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SF Bay Area
Joined Jun 2007
69 Posts
Great demo of the soldering and really helpful shots of the finished board KK.

Thanks so much for all you do!
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Old Jul 01, 2010, 01:01 PM
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POLAND
Joined May 2010
23 Posts
I tried gyros LPY550AL
They work very well.
They are cheaper than HK401B and need only two.
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Old Jul 01, 2010, 01:34 PM
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BloomingtonFPV's Avatar
USA, IN, Bloomington
Joined Aug 2007
829 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by darek53 View Post
I tried gyros LPY550AL
They work very well.
They are cheaper than HK401B and need only two.
These are very interesting, and cheap!
About $6.80 each at mouser:

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...B6STbivpPw0%3D

This means the gyros are about 1/3 the cost of pulling them out of HK gyros.
Anyone know about the relative sensitivity? The interesting thing is that with a little thought you get redundancy on one orientation with the fourth gyro, so you could average the response of the two gyros, on maybe the pitch axis? Whichever one you'd like the most sensitivity on. Maybe the yaw to keep it moving in the same direction.

Edit: Actually, if they are mounted flat on the board, you get redundancy in yaw automatically. It just has to be hardware/software configured.
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Old Jul 01, 2010, 01:59 PM
Member FPV UK
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Isle of Wight, UK
Joined Apr 2010
729 Posts
Will one of these be fine for programming the boards?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/USB-ISP-Progra.../250656613474?

Reason for asking is it has the 6 pin header in place of the 10 pin of the USB ISP Programmer for ATMEL AVR ( 51 ATMega ATTiny ) suggested on the site which comes with a 10 pin header, which is a s*d as the nice v4 and V6boards come with 6 pin headers.

TIA, Mike.
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Old Jul 01, 2010, 02:11 PM
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Portugal, Beja, Beja
Joined Jun 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwcoburg View Post
will one of these be fine for programming the boards?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/usb-isp-progra.../250656613474?

reason for asking is it has the 6 pin header in place of the 10 pin of the usb isp programmer for atmel avr ( 51 atmega attiny ) suggested on the site which comes with a 10 pin header, which is a s*d as the nice v4 and v6boards come with 6 pin headers.

Tia, mike.
i have one of this,works good.
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