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Old Nov 15, 2009, 04:43 PM
Southern Pride
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Idea
Test a Thunder Power Pro Power 45 till......

Note :These discharges are deeper than the 80% that I have recomended for years. While the top of the line modern LiPolys sure handle deep discharges better it is still unwise to discharge them this deep if you desire extended life from them.

At long last the Thunder Power Web site has been updated. It is still a work in progress but it is a start.

http://www.thunderpowerrc.com/


Thunder Power tested a 2S for 330 cycles charging at 5C and discharging at 30 amps.(13.3C).

I am testing a 3S at 40 amps. (17.77C) . Time for a 40A discharge is just over 3 min.

Dsc# 132 took 3:10.

I have no idea how long this will take me as I do have other batteries to test very often and I do not run discharge test unattended.

11-16-09 Added graph for discharges through # 144

11-17-09 Added graph for discharge # 185


11-18-09 Added graph for discharge # 206

11-19-09 Added graph for discharge # 249 ( I thought I would have been done by now).

11-20-09 D# 302 @ 40A plus capacity checks posted.
Charles
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Old Nov 15, 2009, 08:40 PM
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These new batteries are so good that for me the biggest factor in lifespan seems to be how well you treat them(or how badly). In layman terms I think most people will kill these packs through abuse before they die of old age. And prices keep coming down, so it's definitely a good thing!

My first lipo pack in a year or two was a v2 pro lite and it's been worth every penny. I'm going to try a hyperion pack next, should be just as good for a couple $ less. Impressive to me that batteries are so good that testing almost seems boring now.
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Old Nov 15, 2009, 10:42 PM
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Now you're talking. Nice cycle lifes for the amps delivered.
What is the pack size? 2100's?

Rick
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Old Nov 15, 2009, 11:42 PM
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They are behaving, dare I say it, very A123-ish. Voltage under load is holding up nicely while delivered capacity is gracefully declining.

~20% reduction in capacity after 330 very deep discharges at ~15C continuous is not too shabby (but not quite in A123 territory. )

Granted they have both a power and energy density advantage over A123.

Strange that the 2S pack tested by TP has noticeably lower capacity than your 3S pack. Different lot perhaps?

Graphs are also a great testament to the effects of discharging to near 100% DOD. Your 3.3V cutoff has proven to much kinder than TP's 3.0V cutoff with respect to capacity reduction, even though your discharges have been at a much higher rate.

Nice work.

Mark
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Old Nov 16, 2009, 01:19 AM
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I mentioned to Charles that my new equipment was reading 4% lower capacity than my other reference machine.
Charles data is right with my reference equipment

I will recalibrate my equipment for future test.

The ProPower pack hold voltage extremely well throughout the cycle life of the pack, if you look at other batteries, we can see some voltage drop at some point during the cycle life test.

Charlie (R & D, Thunder Power)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrforsyth View Post
They are behaving, dare I say it, very A123-ish. Voltage under load is holding up nicely while delivered capacity is gracefully declining.

~20% reduction in capacity after 330 very deep discharges at ~15C continuous is not too shabby (but not quite in A123 territory. )

Granted they have both a power and energy density advantage over A123.

Strange that the 2S pack tested by TP has noticeably lower capacity than your 3S pack. Different lot perhaps?

Graphs are also a great testament to the effects of discharging to near 100% DOD. Your 3.3V cutoff has proven to much kinder than TP's 3.0V cutoff with respect to capacity reduction, even though your discharges have been at a much higher rate.

Nice work.

Mark
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Old Nov 16, 2009, 11:59 AM
Southern Pride
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Originally Posted by rampman View Post
Now you're talking. Nice cycle lifes for the amps delivered.
What is the pack size? 2100's?

Rick

Charlie's 30 Amp. discharges say 2.3 Ah and mine say 2.2Ah . CBA II will not let you enter 2250 mAh 2.250Ah) which is what they are rated as.

40A / 2.250 = 17.77 C.

Charles
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Old Nov 16, 2009, 12:08 PM
Southern Pride
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Impressive to me that batteries are so good that testing almost seems boring now.
Try running 100 cycles on 9 different ones and 50 cycles on 4 others in a relative short period of ttime.

Then throw in all the charging and discharging I do at the field.
My TP PP 40 3S 3250 was first bench cycled 99 times and has since been flown. It was flown twice more this morning and now has 175 discharges on it.
This morning was a typical session at the field for me. Seven 5 to 6 min. flights in just under two hours and that included 5 charges.

A couple of days ago my son was over and in two hours we flew a total of 15 flights and 12 of those charges were at the field. My two deep cycles get a fairly good work out as do my chargers..

Charles
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Old Nov 16, 2009, 04:44 PM
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charles: you never did post details or pictures of your auto-cycling setup. I think you should let it run unattended. Just put it near a window and run the battery wires out the window into a suitable container. Or just let it run in the middle of the driveway on nice days or something like that I would like to see what sort of setup you cobbled together.
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Old Nov 16, 2009, 05:06 PM
Southern Pride
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I posted photo of everything except for the auto cycle controller and I choose not to post photos of it because the person who designed and built it does not have the time to answer questions or make any addational units and the one I am using is the one and only Beta unit and is a work in progress if he ever has time to make modifications to its' firmware.


I do not charge / discharge LiPolys unattended! No way I am going to place $1,000 worth of test equipment ouside and leave it unatended. Have you ever heard of electronic equipment failing or having a glitch or such? Over the years I have had my CBAs to fail to stop a discharge at the set LVC and I have had chargers to do the same thing. One discharge to zero volts and all the cycles before now to be repeated with another battery,starting from scratch. That is if non of the equipment is damaged by such an event.

Didn't you state months ago that it should be very simple to modify a charger to run an external discharger automaticly and you also made a discharger so why don't you do unatended cycle testing?

In the mean time. graph for cycle #144 post in post # 1 and 155 cycles now completed with no noticeable change.

Charles
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Old Nov 16, 2009, 06:06 PM
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Hey, I got as far as figuring out the high power constant current discharger part

I guess it comes down to your testing has shown that crashes and abuse will usually be the life limiting factor of these new batteries. I also don't get free batteries to test, so that doesn't help either. The test results are so good that it's almost boring. I have little interest in testing cheapie packs and you're doing nearly all the tp and hyperion testing I would ever want to see!
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Old Nov 17, 2009, 11:22 AM
Southern Pride
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Hey, I got as far as figuring out the high power constant current discharger part
Yes you did indeed and I had hoped that someone would have taken it to the next level(s) and came up with a 500 watts plus version for around $100 or so. Used in conjuction with a CellLog 8S to provide automatic discharge termination at preset point its' built in logging function and LogView it would make a rather nice inexpensive testing setup.

Quote:
I guess it comes down to your testing has shown that crashes and abuse will usually be the life limiting factor of these new batteries.
I determined that years ago when I first started using
Thunder Power Pro Lites. The major difference is they needed to used used at 6C or so average and not discharged below 20% remaining capacity to get hundreds of flights while the current TPs seem to deal with 90% plus discharges and approx. 50% of max. continuios C rating rather well.


Charles
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Old Nov 17, 2009, 06:12 PM
Southern Pride
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Dsc# 190 and counting. Graph of discharge # 185 added to post #1. There appears to be a slight decrease in capacity accruing.
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Old Nov 17, 2009, 06:24 PM
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There appears to be a slight decrease in capacity accruing.
Pretty graceful. Slight being the operative word here. The difference between 144 and 185 is so negligible that you would likely never be able to tell this difference in flight. Will be really curious to see what happens between 200 and 300...

Good stuff.

Mark
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Old Nov 17, 2009, 06:35 PM
Southern Pride
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True Mark. As I would normaly only discharge around 1600 to 1700 from this size it would not be noticed at all. In fact my son and I have both flown many of my 2200s and many flights are closer to 1300 to 1500 with a rare one to 1700 or so. Our flights are also much longer than three minute discharges and the batteries stay cooler also.

It is impossible to know how many more cycles this pack would provide if it had not been discharged at up to 70A cont. was not discharged at 30A cont. for 46 cycles and now at 40A for 132 cycles , discharted greater than 90% every cycle ,charged at 5C in 13 minutes and a complete cycle every 20 minutes. I am almost ashamed of myself for treating a LiPoly so badly.

Charles
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Old Nov 17, 2009, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
I am almost ashamed of myself for treating a LiPoly so badly.
Like a poor dog that gets smacked repeatedly by its master yet keeps wagging its tail...

Mark
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