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Old Sep 14, 2010, 09:13 PM
Aerial Images of Texas
tashley's Avatar
The Texas Gulf Coast where hurricanes come to play
Joined Aug 2003
1,960 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek_S View Post
Right, the relative cg doesnt change. Maybe this helps:
The relative cg dosen't change because you've drawn the rear arm longer than the front two. If it is the same length the cg must move forward.
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Old Sep 14, 2010, 09:42 PM
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cyhyam's Avatar
Highland, CA, USA
Joined Jan 2001
1,112 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by signguy View Post
I'll try the HH mode again. I'll have to swap out the telebees for the HK401's. Are you running them in digital mode? What do you have the limit and delay set to? My copter is VERY smooth, its difficult to hear it from 75' away. It may take me a while ( work has been very busy,and getting ready to go on vacation ) but when I come back, I'll set my tri to HH and report, with video!!!

BobD
Bob,

I will be VERY interested on your impressions. I had my vib level down to a
point where I could run a keychain camera directly in the frame with no jello,
it still didn't work. I had not considered setting the throttle limits close and I
think that is the trick.

Since I now have a KK board on it I am going in another direction and placing
the gyros before the KK board, disabling the KK board gyros. This way the KK
acts as a mixer for the CCPM and the gyros modify the, ail, elev, signal
separately before the KK sees it. Throttle is on a separate channel.

I feel HH will give stability to the tri, but need to make a fair comparison
without compromise somewhere else in the setup.

Walt
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Old Sep 14, 2010, 10:30 PM
ob1
Registered User
Southeast TN
Joined Jan 2006
580 Posts
Finally completed my first Tricopter and flew it yesterday (video below). It's pretty standard per the details provided at the beginning of thread (many thanks to signguy for the benefit of your experience). I followed this thread (catching up) for several months before I took the plunge, and even as long as that took, I'm still glad I did 'cause I learned a lot of info from other peoples' successes and failures. I didn't monkey with my design very much other than to make a couple of changes that seemed to suit my planned usage better. I have some background flying helis, but all my experience has been with more traditional Raptor and T-Rexx non-eCCPM setup, so the change to eCCPM was new, and some of the discussions were a bit confusing but I got most of it sorted out and she seems to fly just fine. The video below was from about 5-6 mins of raw footage that I edited down to 2.5 mins using Mac iMovie, and the Tri hasn't even been trimmed yet and is also having to cope with some stiff and swirling wind guests. I cut it down so you wouldn't have to watch too much hovering (boring). I felt the flying area was somewhat limited in size for maiden and first few flights, so I only tried takeoff, hover, and landing. I will move to a larger area to practice flying around wider/higher area and nose-in and flying with Canon A630 mounted onboard. Also ordered one of those key chain cams which should be here soon. All-up weight with TWO 2200 3S lipos in parallel was 2lbs 15 ozs and it seems to have plenty more lifting power. The arms are on 20" centers, and the primary difference from signguy's plan at front of thread is I used three center plates instead of one. The legs are sandwiched between the first two and fold back nicely for transportation. The second plate is where most electronics are mounted, and the top plate adds some protection and doubles as the platform for mounting vid cam and/or FPV gear. I'm sure I will develop more questions as time goes on, but for now take a look at this vid...and thanks for all the valuable input in this thread.
Regards,
ob1
First Tricopter build and flight (2 min 31 sec)
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Old Sep 14, 2010, 10:32 PM
An ordinary sort of incredible
mr.incredible's Avatar
United States, TN, Knoxville
Joined Dec 2004
931 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Upup View Post
I think putting hole top and bottom would posibly defeat the object a little, if the holes are on top with the air blowing into them the air will " turn" and travel along the tube to its inboard end ( blow this over the lipo as further benfit) and may keep the esc cool.


BTW you cant see the wires on my "woody" a simple rebate in the bottom of the arm allows them to be tucked in but i think the tube idea is great.
When you say schedule 40 is this used for plumbing / electric so I can find it in my hardware store.

What method did you use to get such a neat oval when you heated the tubes?

I may look at this as a build method for my next tri (T copter)

Regards Jeff
I've been kinda savin these pictures for my build post. But since my cash seems to be on an eternal low I might as well post them. I will still do a build and an instructable when the $$ fairy stops by.

By the pictures.
1. You will need:
- 3 pieces of 1 inch schedule 20 PVC about 24" long. (I think it's 20. I'm going off memory at moment. It's the thin stuff usually used for sprinkler systems.)
- Gloves, It is too hot to handle but simple gloves are enough.
- 1x4 about 3' long.
- Oven. Big enough to hold your pipe.
- A flat surface big enough and near the oven.

2. I ripped a piece of wood 1 1/2" x 3/8" x 36". I beveled the edges, and tapered one end. I smoothed the whole thing down.

3. With everything ready, heat the oven to 250 deg. Put the pipe in the oven for about 3-5 min. It should be like a wet noodle.

4. you have about 3-5 min to work with it. Pull it out of the oven and slide the mold into it.

5. Place it on your flat surface and press the 1x4 on the top. Hold it for about a 1 1/2 min. You want it cool enough to not spring back to shape but warm enough you can still pull it off the mold. If you let it cool too long you will have to reheat the whole thing to get the mold out.

6. It's a little heavier than the wooden struts, but I think it will make up for it in style points.

7. You will need to sand and paint after that. I used Krylon Fusion paints. I think I need to wax the mating surfaces. The paint sticks together after a couple days.

8. cut the ends on about 15 deg. angle. That gives plenty of room to mount the motor on top or bottom, like mine.

9. Inside the tail, I cut a piece of wood similar in deminsions to the mold from earlier. about 2" long. I epoxied it inside and let it cure for a day. Then I drilled a hole in the center for my pivot point for the rudder. I cut off about 3" from the end. That gave me a good solid bit to work with. It's difficult to explain from here on the tail. Basically I counter-sunk a bearing on the inside and outside of the seperate piece. Then epoxied a shaft into the bit still in the strut. It's very similar to the heli main blade holder. Somewhere in there I fashioned a servo horn and mated it. Clear as mud.

So, That is what I've got so far. No electronics yet, just an old standard size servo I'm using to place hold. I do have an actual working frame and a real picture of it but I can't get to it tonight.
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Old Sep 15, 2010, 02:04 AM
X-Ikarus
Reflex1's Avatar
United Kingdom, North York
Joined Feb 2003
1,681 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by signguy View Post
I'll try the HH mode again. I'll have to swap out the telebees for the HK401's. Are you running them in digital mode? What do you have the limit and delay set to? My copter is VERY smooth, its difficult to hear it from 75' away. It may take me a while ( work has been very busy,and getting ready to go on vacation ) but when I come back, I'll set my tri to HH and report, with video!!!

BobD
HK401's are in Analogue mode ,thanks for reminding me I will test in Digital next.

Limit is set to Max. Delay is zero

Paul
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Old Sep 15, 2010, 02:19 AM
X-Ikarus
Reflex1's Avatar
United Kingdom, North York
Joined Feb 2003
1,681 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyhyam View Post
Bob,

I will be VERY interested on your impressions. I had my vib level down to a
point where I could run a keychain camera directly in the frame with no jello,
it still didn't work. I had not considered setting the throttle limits close and I
think that is the trick.

Since I now have a KK board on it I am going in another direction and placing
the gyros before the KK board, disabling the KK board gyros. This way the KK
acts as a mixer for the CCPM and the gyros modify the, ail, elev, signal
separately before the KK sees it. Throttle is on a separate channel.

I feel HH will give stability to the tri, but need to make a fair comparison
without compromise somewhere else in the setup.

Walt
There is NO COMPROMISE

I have just checked using 2 servos
One is connected to Chn. 8 and controlled by VR "C" on my FF9
The other is connected to a 401 Gyro output

BOTH have the same range of total movement

Therefore. the esc's are seeing a normal Pulse range
and 0 -100% Power Output from the motors.


The reason for the Pitch Curve being restricted range (Throttle control)
is due to the Swash AFR Pitch setting at +60 and the Gyro Travel at MAX.
as I said earlier.

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Old Sep 15, 2010, 04:25 AM
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coffeegeek's Avatar
Italy, Umbria, Perugia
Joined Sep 2006
85 Posts
Wow! Ob1!!

Those DT750s ARE POWERFUL!! I can't believe how much your tri blows those trees around in the background!!

:P
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Old Sep 15, 2010, 07:32 AM
Suspended Account
UK, Buckinghamshire, High Wycombe
Joined Feb 2007
4,133 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by opus View Post
I've been kinda savin these pictures for my build post. But since my cash seems to be on an eternal low I might as well post them. I will still do a build and an instructable when the $$ fairy stops by.

By the pictures.
1. You will need:
- 3 pieces of 1 inch schedule 20 PVC about 24" long. (I think it's 20. I'm going off memory at moment. It's the thin stuff usually used for sprinkler systems.)
- Gloves, It is too hot to handle but simple gloves are enough.
- 1x4 about 3' long.
- Oven. Big enough to hold your pipe.
- A flat surface big enough and near the oven.

2. I ripped a piece of wood 1 1/2" x 3/8" x 36". I beveled the edges, and tapered one end. I smoothed the whole thing down.

3. With everything ready, heat the oven to 250 deg. Put the pipe in the oven for about 3-5 min. It should be like a wet noodle.

4. you have about 3-5 min to work with it. Pull it out of the oven and slide the mold into it.

5. Place it on your flat surface and press the 1x4 on the top. Hold it for about a 1 1/2 min. You want it cool enough to not spring back to shape but warm enough you can still pull it off the mold. If you let it cool too long you will have to reheat the whole thing to get the mold out.

6. It's a little heavier than the wooden struts, but I think it will make up for it in style points.

7. You will need to sand and paint after that. I used Krylon Fusion paints. I think I need to wax the mating surfaces. The paint sticks together after a couple days.

8. cut the ends on about 15 deg. angle. That gives plenty of room to mount the motor on top or bottom, like mine.

9. Inside the tail, I cut a piece of wood similar in deminsions to the mold from earlier. about 2" long. I epoxied it inside and let it cure for a day. Then I drilled a hole in the center for my pivot point for the rudder. I cut off about 3" from the end. That gave me a good solid bit to work with. It's difficult to explain from here on the tail. Basically I counter-sunk a bearing on the inside and outside of the seperate piece. Then epoxied a shaft into the bit still in the strut. It's very similar to the heli main blade holder. Somewhere in there I fashioned a servo horn and mated it. Clear as mud.

So, That is what I've got so far. No electronics yet, just an old standard size servo I'm using to place hold. I do have an actual working frame and a real picture of it but I can't get to it tonight.
nice idea but if you look for a "franklin" street hockey stick the cheapy ones are made from plastic that has been pre squared so to speak

might save you alot of time i picked up 2 sticks net and frame for a few quid at carboot sale

heres my hockey stick so far



and abit of the goal



also turns out that old heli blades make good frames too if you add abit of foam



and yes it does fly even though its just held together with 2 zipties on each leg and medium CA glue

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXdNe5QOqxc
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Old Sep 15, 2010, 07:40 AM
Multi Rotors Rule ! ;-)
SkyEyes's Avatar
United Kingdom
Joined Jul 2010
879 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by n3m1s1s View Post
nice idea but if you look for a "franklin" street hockey stick the cheapy ones are made from plastic that has been pre squared so to speak

[/URL]

and yes it does fly even though its just held together with 2 zipties on each leg and medium CA glue

I like the OTT pipe insulation foam on each Arm.

Is it like this so it can float down rapids, over waterfalls, then land upright? A true Tricopter sea-plane!
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Old Sep 15, 2010, 07:50 AM
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UK, Buckinghamshire, High Wycombe
Joined Feb 2007
4,133 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyEyes View Post
I like the OTT pipe insulation foam on each Arm.

Is it like this so it can float down rapids, over waterfalls, then land upright? A true Tricopter sea-plane!
lmao no bruv

i put all that foam on to act like my training legs when the tricopter flies properly i take them off

heres the N-DROID while i was setting it up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EukhKjinPiY

notice the foam and notice how it wasnt flying right yet?

now look at the legs it gets when i think its ready to fly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmYS-k8S2_o

ummmmm up up and away?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SN2WWaQ2KM

yep thats why im building more BTW i do know that the foam ISN'T optimum for flying around but it sure does save alot more of the tri if you crash while testing
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Old Sep 15, 2010, 08:42 AM
Registered User
Joined Nov 2007
547 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tashley View Post
The relative cg dosen't change because you've drawn the rear arm longer than the front two. If it is the same length the cg must move forward.
Yeah sorry I didnt get what you were trying to say. I just saw his drawing and it looked like a CG very far fwd. Thats correct, if you shorten the rear arm the the CG should be 1/3 back from the T to the rear motor
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Old Sep 15, 2010, 09:02 AM
Aerial Images of Texas
tashley's Avatar
The Texas Gulf Coast where hurricanes come to play
Joined Aug 2003
1,960 Posts
Actually it's more like around 20% back from the front. The front motors in a straight line perpendicular to the rear arm mean that the cg position needs to be much closer to the front of the machine for each motor to balance the same.
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Old Sep 15, 2010, 10:25 AM
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cyhyam's Avatar
Highland, CA, USA
Joined Jan 2001
1,112 Posts
Paul,

There are many people that have tried to do what you say you have
succeeded at with no success. The only thing you have brought forward to
explain your success is the low vibration level. There are many tris out there
with low or no vibration including mine, that is not the key.

I do feel heading hold is a better system and would like to evaluate the
differences myself to confirm.

Since you are the only one to succeed at this it would be great if you could
share with everyone how to do it. Once there are others with it working it
will be much easier to accept.
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Old Sep 15, 2010, 10:39 AM
Multi Rotors Rule ! ;-)
SkyEyes's Avatar
United Kingdom
Joined Jul 2010
879 Posts
n3m1s1s, I was just kidding .., as you've rightly done, best make as many precautions as possible on those first flights.
It flies great, especially considering how strong the wind was blowing around those tree's in the car park!

You're lights are pretty bright too, especially the White one, shining directly downwards.
Bet the ANTS in the carpark thought they were about to be "beamed up" by some UFO! Star Trek style! lol.

Great copter and very nice flying.
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Old Sep 15, 2010, 10:51 AM
Your user title is suggestive,
Xptical's Avatar
Warner Robins, GA
Joined Apr 2006
1,805 Posts
So, are you using all four gyros in HH? Or just the yaw gyro in HH?
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