Channel schmannel

arbilab · Nov 07, 2009, 08:27 PM

Gotta admit, when I first got into helis just under a year ago, I sneered at 3chs. First 2 were 4ch, second 2 were 6ch. Maybe because Airhogs were "seen on TV". I worked in TV over 15 years, and I have an inherent distrust of anything TV tries to persuade me to buy.

In the last couple months, my finances took a dive. I can't afford 6ch any more. But my lust for new helis is stronger than ever. So my last 2 have been 3ch. Lemme tellya, when you've got $20 or $60 in the air, your buttcheeks don't get anywhere near as clenched as when you've got $350 in the air.

The $20 one is sold at Walgreens. Nicely detailed and put together. IR transmitter, indoor only. Palm size. Not very yaw-stable (no gyro). But who cares? If it hits stuff, it doesn't damage stuff or itself. Like a wayward MCX you can buy 8 of for the price of 1. Challenge to get it going where you want, but that's the fun, isn't it? And no consequences if you fail.

Don't get me wrong, I DO miss aileron, and the 3ch tendency to be mode 4 (RUD on R stick) is disorienting at first if you're accustomed to 4ch mode 2. Brittle old fart that I am, after 2 days I can switch between them seamlessly.

Then the last 3ch arrived. This one: http://www.xheli.com/newtfualal3c.html $63, delivered (US). Unknown manufacturer, Huangxing. 3" larger bladespan than Lama V4/Eflite CX. All aluminum head and frame. Don't soil yourself, it's stamped aluminum, not CNC. Whaddya want for $60? Decked with flashing LEDs. Very snappy gyro. Handsfree out of the box.

Editorial: If it was a Walkera, after 2 days I'd be on my 3rd set of motors, assuming the electronics lasted that long.

Both the Walcopter and the T-series are air helis, as distinct from bench helis. You fly them for fun and they just work as they are. Neither has 'upgrade options'. The Wal doesn't even have parts, the T only if you ask xheli Andy nicely. The Wal won't care if you fly it into the fireplace. The T (3x larger) will. But if you're past the "fly it uncontrolled into the fireplace" stage, T is a terrific value.

What else can you get for $60 besides a carton of cigarettes and a soda?

Greybird · Nov 08, 2009, 08:28 AM

Give up the cigarettes, and move on to better heli's.

arbilab · Nov 08, 2009, 01:41 PM

Erstwhile suggestion. They're in the same budget category, addictions.

But before I merit better helis, I need to become a better pilot. Besides, I already own a "better heli", Align/EXI hybrid 450. Not qualified to fly it yet.

Along my learning curve, I feel that flexibility--from one model's characteristics to the next--is the best thing I can build on at this time. Thus, if it flies and I can afford it, done deal. Whether it's elegant is a remote priority. And the new coax IS elegant, aesthetically miles beyond what sells for twice as much.

You're not doing the "sneer" thing I admitted to, are you?

MiseryQ · Nov 08, 2009, 02:22 PM

I need to head over to Walgreens and see if they have one of those.

If you have a TX you can get in the air really cheap with an HK heli and HK parts (:

wetwolf · Nov 08, 2009, 02:50 PM

Arbilab, i saw the thread in the micro forum yesterday and went right down to Walgreens and got one. excellent toy for $20. Much better flyer than the Picco Z that got me started in this hobby about 3 years ago. It is a very relaxing flyer that actually goes where you point it, and it would appear to be indestructible. My 1st crash the thing ended up in a bucket of water. I let it dry out for a half hour, and right back into the air.

the butt clench goes away after awhile even when flying a big heli, you just need more stick time.

Da Wolf

Jimbo45cn · Nov 08, 2009, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arbilab

Gotta admit, when I first got into helis just under a year ago, I sneered at 3chs. First 2 were 4ch, second 2 were 6ch. Maybe because Airhogs were "seen on TV". I worked in TV over 15 years, and I have an inherent distrust of anything TV tries to persuade me to buy.

In the last couple months, my finances took a dive. I can't afford 6ch any more. But my lust for new helis is stronger than ever. So my last 2 have been 3ch. Lemme tellya, when you've got $20 or $60 in the air, your buttcheeks don't get anywhere near as clenched as when you've got $350 in the air.

The $20 one is sold at Walgreens. Nicely detailed and put together. IR transmitter, indoor only. Palm size. Not very yaw-stable (no gyro). But who cares? If it hits stuff, it doesn't damage stuff or itself. Like a wayward MCX you can buy 8 of for the price of 1. Challenge to get it going where you want, but that's the fun, isn't it? And no consequences if you fail.

Don't get me wrong, I DO miss aileron, and the 3ch tendency to be mode 4 (RUD on R stick) is disorienting at first if you're accustomed to 4ch mode 2. Brittle old fart that I am, after 2 days I can switch between them seamlessly.

Then the last 3ch arrived. This one: http://www.xheli.com/newtfualal3c.html $63, delivered (US). Unknown manufacturer, Huangxing. 3" larger bladespan than Lama V4/Eflite CX. All aluminum head and frame. Don't soil yourself, it's stamped aluminum, not CNC. Whaddya want for $60? Decked with flashing LEDs. Very snappy gyro. Handsfree out of the box.

Editorial: If it was a Walkera, after 2 days I'd be on my 3rd set of motors, assuming the electronics lasted that long.

Both the Walcopter and the T-series are air helis, as distinct from bench helis. You fly them for fun and they just work as they are. Neither has 'upgrade options'. The Wal doesn't even have parts, the T only if you ask xheli Andy nicely. The Wal won't care if you fly it into the fireplace. The T (3x larger) will. But if you're past the "fly it uncontrolled into the fireplace" stage, T is a terrific value.

What else can you get for $60 besides a carton of cigarettes and a soda?

Just a question. How much time do you spend on the simulator?

arbilab · Nov 08, 2009, 04:33 PM

Survived WATER? I wouldn't have expected that!

Walcopter is a bitchen $20 toy. WAY more elegant than the $40 foam Airhog from last year, same or better flying competence.

How much sim time? Hours a week, never enough. RF 4.5. It's almost too easy. I can recover from inadvertant inversions without knowing which way is up or where the tail is, just by instinct. Stuff I wouldn't dare attempt with several hundred $ in the air.

Way harder flying a 17-27" breakable aircraft in a 84" room surrounded by rigid objects.

wetwolf · Nov 08, 2009, 09:04 PM

On the sim, work on hovering by keeping an object in the background centered on the screen behind the heli. It's way too easy to go nuts on a sim especially when you have the camera in chase mode. In fixed mode, it makes you concentrate on what you can see from where you are standing.
I flew the walcopter 5 or six times today, and let my neighbor fly it as well, he picked it up in less than 4 minutes. we like to go out in the street and fly our $25 airhogs allover the place. You can crash and fly for about 15 minutes and if you do manage to break or lose a plane, it's only $25 to replace it.

I spend at least that when I crash the swift, but i dont crash the swift as much

arbilab · Nov 09, 2009, 01:20 PM

I handed the Walcopter to my sister, who has never controlled ANYthing. She landed it upright on second try, which I only do about 1 time out of 4. Elegantly styled and engineered for what it is, long as kids get the golden rule--slam throttle shut when in trouble--should well last until they either get bored and forget it, or demand a Trex.

I do fly sim primarily in chase mode. Realizing that's not what it's going to look like from the ground. But to see what the craft does at altitude and at speed, while it's still big enough on the screen to make out orientation.

Also in fixed mode, precision operation like what I experience in my 7-foot living room with HBCP. I'm not rushing this. I don't have very good reflexes or spatial sense to start with.

Jimbo45cn · Nov 09, 2009, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arbilab

I handed the Walcopter to my sister, who has never controlled ANYthing. She landed it upright on second try, which I only do about 1 time out of 4. Elegantly styled and engineered for what it is, long as kids get the golden rule--slam throttle shut when in trouble--should well last until they either get bored and forget it, or demand a Trex.

I do fly sim primarily in chase mode. Realizing that's not what it's going to look like from the ground. But to see what the craft does at altitude and at speed, while it's still big enough on the screen to make out orientation.

Also in fixed mode, precision operation like what I experience in my 7-foot living room with HBCP. I'm not rushing this. I don't have very good reflexes or spatial sense to start with.

Well, am not trying to be critical, but chase mode will do absolutely nothing to improve your rc skills. I know it's boring, but fly the sim the same as you would in real life. Your skills will improve and you';ll get those little birds out of the house. Jim

arbilab · Nov 09, 2009, 08:35 PM

Not a matter of boredom, matter of the model occupying 5 pixels at any distance and no prayer of determining orientation. I understand 'chase' is not what I'm going to see standing on the ground. Frankly, struggling with finger coordination and proportioning, I never was any good at those.

arbilab · Nov 09, 2009, 10:38 PM

OK, I REALLY miss aileron. While the 3chs occupy their space well (good products and lean pricing), by the time I'd get coordinated flight with them (they are both a little jumpy/disproportional control-wise) I could do the same thing with my 450 outdoors if I weren't scared of (trashing) it.

I'll keep them active, something to fiddle with or hand to visiting friends. Plus, 6 helis is always better than 4. But I REALLY miss aileron.

wetwolf · Nov 11, 2009, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arbilab

OK, I REALLY miss aileron. While the 3chs occupy their space well (good products and lean pricing), by the time I'd get coordinated flight with them (they are both a little jumpy/disproportional control-wise) I could do the same thing with my 450 outdoors if I weren't scared of (trashing) it.

I'll keep them active, something to fiddle with or hand to visiting friends. Plus, 6 helis is always better than 4. But I REALLY miss aileron.

the lack of REAL control just keeps me on my toes. Ya know, 3 years ago I could land a PiccoZ on a 1'x1' square. Now it seem as hard to get a 3 channel into the same space I could squeeze a 6.

Either my reflexes are slowing down, or I'm just thinking I can get a toy to do what an rc heli can do.

I am flying the crap out of the thing tho.

Da Wolf

arbilab · Nov 11, 2009, 02:42 PM

Quote:

the lack of REAL control just keeps me on my toes.

That's the value of it I spoze. Might be a bug in mine, but RUD response can't be predicted. The same command that spins it 90* one time doesn't move it at all the next. Worse in the CW direction than CCW. Trim is dead neutral, far as what the craft does. Not sure where the electrical center is.

And I'm in about half the space for something like this, 11x7. Gotta point it, then FWD/RVS it, lotsa times there isn't time, specially when RUD isn't proportioning right.

norcalheli · Nov 11, 2009, 03:54 PM

Arbi,
I'm going to say this once, then I promise to leave it alone. Adding just a little more to what you spent on the 3 Ch "toys" could have bought you the 4 ch mSR Bind-n-Fly, with two batteries and a decent charger. Bound to your DX6i, you then could: 1) hover in all orientations, 2) fly slow circuits and figure eights, 3) fly backwards. All in your stated 11ft by 7 ft space. Then, on those rare days when the wind outside is calm, and it doesn't have to be dead calm, 3-5 mph is ok, you could practice tearing up the skies in an area the size of most backyards. The little mSR WILL handle both scenarios, and do it well. Last Sunday I had it going so fast that I had a hard time keeping up. And yet, when it does seem to be getting out of control, and you're going to lose it, you can just back off, let it stabilize, take a deep breath, and go again. Everyone that loves the HBFP says it's the stick time it allows. Well, the mSR allows for a lot of stick time.

Nov 07, 2009, 08:27 PM	#1
arbilab Unemployed Engineer Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 3,300	Channel schmannel Gotta admit, when I first got into helis just under a year ago, I sneered at 3chs. First 2 were 4ch, second 2 were 6ch. Maybe because Airhogs were "seen on TV". I worked in TV over 15 years, and I have an inherent distrust of anything TV tries to persuade me to buy. In the last couple months, my finances took a dive. I can't afford 6ch any more. But my lust for new helis is stronger than ever. So my last 2 have been 3ch. Lemme tellya, when you've got $20 or $60 in the air, your buttcheeks don't get anywhere near as clenched as when you've got $350 in the air. The $20 one is sold at Walgreens. Nicely detailed and put together. IR transmitter, indoor only. Palm size. Not very yaw-stable (no gyro). But who cares? If it hits stuff, it doesn't damage stuff or itself. Like a wayward MCX you can buy 8 of for the price of 1. Challenge to get it going where you want, but that's the fun, isn't it? And no consequences if you fail. Don't get me wrong, I DO miss aileron, and the 3ch tendency to be mode 4 (RUD on R stick) is disorienting at first if you're accustomed to 4ch mode 2. Brittle old fart that I am, after 2 days I can switch between them seamlessly. Then the last 3ch arrived. This one: http://www.xheli.com/newtfualal3c.html $63, delivered (US). Unknown manufacturer, Huangxing. 3" larger bladespan than Lama V4/Eflite CX. All aluminum head and frame. Don't soil yourself, it's stamped aluminum, not CNC. Whaddya want for $60? Decked with flashing LEDs. Very snappy gyro. Handsfree out of the box. Editorial: If it was a Walkera, after 2 days I'd be on my 3rd set of motors, assuming the electronics lasted that long. Both the Walcopter and the T-series are air helis, as distinct from bench helis. You fly them for fun and they just work as they are. Neither has 'upgrade options'. The Wal doesn't even have parts, the T only if you ask xheli Andy nicely. The Wal won't care if you fly it into the fireplace. The T (3x larger) will. But if you're past the "fly it uncontrolled into the fireplace" stage, T is a terrific value. What else can you get for $60 besides a carton of cigarettes and a soda?

Nov 08, 2009, 01:41 PM	#3
arbilab Unemployed Engineer Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 3,300	Erstwhile suggestion. They're in the same budget category, addictions. But before I merit better helis, I need to become a better pilot. Besides, I already own a "better heli", Align/EXI hybrid 450. Not qualified to fly it yet. Along my learning curve, I feel that flexibility--from one model's characteristics to the next--is the best thing I can build on at this time. Thus, if it flies and I can afford it, done deal. Whether it's elegant is a remote priority. And the new coax IS elegant, aesthetically miles beyond what sells for twice as much. You're not doing the "sneer" thing I admitted to, are you? Last edited by arbilab; Nov 08, 2009 at 01:47 PM.

Nov 08, 2009, 04:33 PM	#7
arbilab Unemployed Engineer Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 3,300	Survived WATER? I wouldn't have expected that! Walcopter is a bitchen $20 toy. WAY more elegant than the $40 foam Airhog from last year, same or better flying competence. How much sim time? Hours a week, never enough. RF 4.5. It's almost too easy. I can recover from inadvertant inversions without knowing which way is up or where the tail is, just by instinct. Stuff I wouldn't dare attempt with several hundred $ in the air. Way harder flying a 17-27" breakable aircraft in a 84" room surrounded by rigid objects. Last edited by arbilab; Nov 08, 2009 at 04:38 PM.

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Nov 08, 2009, 08:28 AM	#2
Greybird Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 5,738	Give up the cigarettes, and move on to better heli's.

Nov 08, 2009, 02:22 PM	#4
MiseryQ Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Norfolk, Va Posts: 1,767	I need to head over to Walgreens and see if they have one of those. If you have a TX you can get in the air really cheap with an HK heli and HK parts (:

Nov 08, 2009, 02:50 PM	#5
wetwolf My Swift is almost crashproof! Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: On a 20ft ladder with a 20ft stick beating an airplane out of a tree. Posts: 498	Arbilab, i saw the thread in the micro forum yesterday and went right down to Walgreens and got one. excellent toy for $20. Much better flyer than the Picco Z that got me started in this hobby about 3 years ago. It is a very relaxing flyer that actually goes where you point it, and it would appear to be indestructible. My 1st crash the thing ended up in a bucket of water. I let it dry out for a half hour, and right back into the air. the butt clench goes away after awhile even when flying a big heli, you just need more stick time. Da Wolf

Nov 08, 2009, 09:04 PM	#8
wetwolf My Swift is almost crashproof! Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: On a 20ft ladder with a 20ft stick beating an airplane out of a tree. Posts: 498	On the sim, work on hovering by keeping an object in the background centered on the screen behind the heli. It's way too easy to go nuts on a sim especially when you have the camera in chase mode. In fixed mode, it makes you concentrate on what you can see from where you are standing. I flew the walcopter 5 or six times today, and let my neighbor fly it as well, he picked it up in less than 4 minutes. we like to go out in the street and fly our $25 airhogs allover the place. You can crash and fly for about 15 minutes and if you do manage to break or lose a plane, it's only $25 to replace it. I spend at least that when I crash the swift, but i dont crash the swift as much

Nov 09, 2009, 01:20 PM	#9
arbilab Unemployed Engineer Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 3,300	I handed the Walcopter to my sister, who has never controlled ANYthing. She landed it upright on second try, which I only do about 1 time out of 4. Elegantly styled and engineered for what it is, long as kids get the golden rule--slam throttle shut when in trouble--should well last until they either get bored and forget it, or demand a Trex. I do fly sim primarily in chase mode. Realizing that's not what it's going to look like from the ground. But to see what the craft does at altitude and at speed, while it's still big enough on the screen to make out orientation. Also in fixed mode, precision operation like what I experience in my 7-foot living room with HBCP. I'm not rushing this. I don't have very good reflexes or spatial sense to start with.

Nov 09, 2009, 08:35 PM	#11
arbilab Unemployed Engineer Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 3,300	Not a matter of boredom, matter of the model occupying 5 pixels at any distance and no prayer of determining orientation. I understand 'chase' is not what I'm going to see standing on the ground. Frankly, struggling with finger coordination and proportioning, I never was any good at those.

Nov 09, 2009, 10:38 PM	#12
arbilab Unemployed Engineer Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 3,300	OK, I REALLY miss aileron. While the 3chs occupy their space well (good products and lean pricing), by the time I'd get coordinated flight with them (they are both a little jumpy/disproportional control-wise) I could do the same thing with my 450 outdoors if I weren't scared of (trashing) it. I'll keep them active, something to fiddle with or hand to visiting friends. Plus, 6 helis is always better than 4. But I REALLY miss aileron.

Nov 11, 2009, 03:54 PM	#15
norcalheli My other addiction! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Marysville, Ca., US Posts: 543	Arbi, I'm going to say this once, then I promise to leave it alone. Adding just a little more to what you spent on the 3 Ch "toys" could have bought you the 4 ch mSR Bind-n-Fly, with two batteries and a decent charger. Bound to your DX6i, you then could: 1) hover in all orientations, 2) fly slow circuits and figure eights, 3) fly backwards. All in your stated 11ft by 7 ft space. Then, on those rare days when the wind outside is calm, and it doesn't have to be dead calm, 3-5 mph is ok, you could practice tearing up the skies in an area the size of most backyards. The little mSR WILL handle both scenarios, and do it well. Last Sunday I had it going so fast that I had a hard time keeping up. And yet, when it does seem to be getting out of control, and you're going to lose it, you can just back off, let it stabilize, take a deep breath, and go again. Everyone that loves the HBFP says it's the stick time it allows. Well, the mSR allows for a lot of stick time.