bigger guillow's lancer

paulatgis · Nov 04, 2009, 04:38 PM

i have the plans for the 24 inch guillows lancer and enlarged it to 48 inch wing span. im not quite sure what to make the fuselage out of. I am considering doubling up 1/8 by 1/8 balsa or doubling 1/16 by 1/16 bassword for the longerons and then add lots of braces to frame it up hopefully stiff enough whie keeping the weight down.

what's the typical old timer fuselage longerons made of?

heres how I doubled up 1/16 by 1/16 for the 24 inch version.

Im thinking 40 grams for total flying weight with battery for the 24 inch version. double in both dimensions would be 160 grams for the 48 inch, unless that makes it too flimsy.

Thanks for the help!

BMatthews · Nov 04, 2009, 08:30 PM

You're going to want to beef up a lot of the structure. The wing in particular. It's going to need some bigger spars than just doubling them. Spar loads go up at a higher order than the size.

Also as you scale up a model the wing span is a direct scaling. The area goes up by the square of the enlargement and the volume goes up by the cube. Now a LOT of that volume is going to be air but the increased size of the wood and need for a proper design wing spar that is more than just double the existing sizes means you can expect the weight for even a lightly built version to jump by more than 4 times. Techincally it should be 8 times but again the air doesn't count. I'd say somewhere around 200 grams would be more realistic. But that's still going to result in quite a floater.

For a 48 inch lightly built electric version I'd suggest 3/16 main longerons. They may be a slight overkill but it'll make for a more durable model with little weight penalty. The uprights should be no more than 2 inches apart if you're using 3/16 longerons. You may need to re-design the upright layout to accomadate that. The cross section of the 3/16 is the same and using 1/8 x1/4 but the square stock will provide more all around local stregth against bowing inwards from handling or shrinkage in the covering.

In line with all this things like the landing gear mounting points will require more structure that spreads and tapers the loads out into more wood. The things we get away with on smaller and much lighter models just don't translate when you double the size.

paulatgis · Nov 08, 2009, 07:06 PM

You're right Bruce 200 grams is much more realistic. So far I am upto 170 grams minus tail and covering. I like the 3/16 balsa, but I don't know how to make curves with it, so I doubled up two 1/8 after setting them in a curve with glue. I should be ok, but I stocked up on the 3/16 for my next project, a twin Keystone bomber. I happened to have a 2205 Axion 1400kv motor and a 2s 460 mAh battery, so I'll try these out.

BMatthews · Nov 09, 2009, 02:33 PM

For the strongly curved outlines you could always slice up some 3/16 by either 3/32 or even 3 layers of 1/16.

But your doubled 1/8 square will be fine. Just be a little careful when squeezing it in the thin direction.

paulatgis · Nov 09, 2009, 03:56 PM

75 grams as in picture. its a little flexy - twisty in fuselage between wing and tail. If I remained concerned I will add some diagonal braces there, then start working on the servos and motor mount. Im not sure how easy it is to see a plane covered with semi transparent covering, so I might just go with solid yellow and red.

GJ60 · Nov 09, 2009, 10:33 PM

Nice solid build.... looking forward to your success... I was able to micro solder the wires onto the brick for my sukhoi motor....what a close call...no room for error... I have the motor and brick in and I am securing the pushrods at this point....

If all goes well it should be ready for flight by end of week.... I decided to go with the box colors...so im using painted issue... im at 50g auw. But thats with the landing gear in. ill post pics tomorrow...

Cheers

paulatgis · Nov 17, 2009, 12:43 PM

big and little guillows lancer side by side. I have to move the elevator control rod to below the stab where it does not interfer with rudder movement. 240 grams total

aeronca52 · Nov 17, 2009, 08:41 PM

Nice idea! Did you fly the big one yet?

paulatgis · Nov 19, 2009, 10:41 AM

it flies like a kite. I'm hoping to fly it real high, then just float it down like a glider. the motor appears to be a good match. it putts around level at a third to half throttle, then climbs pretty fast anywheres near full throttle. i was hoping for smooth rolling landings but it doesnt have nearly the momentum for that on landing. ill take video pictures next time out. 2205 motor and apc 8x3.8 prop. 2s 450mAh battery.

paulatgis · Nov 19, 2009, 04:43 PM

picture of it in the air, video on its way.

paulatgis · Nov 19, 2009, 05:20 PM

another picture

paulatgis · Nov 19, 2009, 05:33 PM

video

IMGP0348 (0 min 57 sec)

paulatgis · Nov 19, 2009, 09:18 PM

big lancer in flight (0 min 46 sec)

aeronca52 · Nov 19, 2009, 10:03 PM

Nice videos Paul. Looks like it responds quick to lift (thermal). Seems to fly very nice, why not send the video to Guillows-maybe they will kit it as a park flyer!!

Nov 04, 2009, 04:38 PM	#1
paulatgis Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 111	bigger guillow's lancer i have the plans for the 24 inch guillows lancer and enlarged it to 48 inch wing span. im not quite sure what to make the fuselage out of. I am considering doubling up 1/8 by 1/8 balsa or doubling 1/16 by 1/16 bassword for the longerons and then add lots of braces to frame it up hopefully stiff enough whie keeping the weight down. what's the typical old timer fuselage longerons made of? heres how I doubled up 1/16 by 1/16 for the 24 inch version. Im thinking 40 grams for total flying weight with battery for the 24 inch version. double in both dimensions would be 160 grams for the 48 inch, unless that makes it too flimsy. Thanks for the help! Attached Thumbnails 92.1 KB · Views: 83

Nov 09, 2009, 03:56 PM	#5
paulatgis Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 111	75 grams as in picture. its a little flexy - twisty in fuselage between wing and tail. If I remained concerned I will add some diagonal braces there, then start working on the servos and motor mount. Im not sure how easy it is to see a plane covered with semi transparent covering, so I might just go with solid yellow and red. Attached Thumbnails 53.0 KB · Views: 45

Nov 09, 2009, 10:33 PM	#6
GJ60 Cebu Pacific Airlines Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Rockland County, NY Posts: 89	lookin good buddy Nice solid build.... looking forward to your success... I was able to micro solder the wires onto the brick for my sukhoi motor....what a close call...no room for error... I have the motor and brick in and I am securing the pushrods at this point.... If all goes well it should be ready for flight by end of week.... I decided to go with the box colors...so im using painted issue... im at 50g auw. But thats with the landing gear in. ill post pics tomorrow... Cheers

Nov 17, 2009, 12:43 PM	#7
paulatgis Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 111	bigger lancer picture big and little guillows lancer side by side. I have to move the elevator control rod to below the stab where it does not interfer with rudder movement. 240 grams total Attached Thumbnails 112.2 KB · Views: 23 129.0 KB · Views: 28

Nov 19, 2009, 04:43 PM	#10
paulatgis Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 111	flight picture picture of it in the air, video on its way. Attached Thumbnails 127.9 KB · Views: 17 67.2 KB · Views: 7

Nov 04, 2009, 08:30 PM	#2
BMatthews B for Bruce Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 4,683	You're going to want to beef up a lot of the structure. The wing in particular. It's going to need some bigger spars than just doubling them. Spar loads go up at a higher order than the size. Also as you scale up a model the wing span is a direct scaling. The area goes up by the square of the enlargement and the volume goes up by the cube. Now a LOT of that volume is going to be air but the increased size of the wood and need for a proper design wing spar that is more than just double the existing sizes means you can expect the weight for even a lightly built version to jump by more than 4 times. Techincally it should be 8 times but again the air doesn't count. I'd say somewhere around 200 grams would be more realistic. But that's still going to result in quite a floater. For a 48 inch lightly built electric version I'd suggest 3/16 main longerons. They may be a slight overkill but it'll make for a more durable model with little weight penalty. The uprights should be no more than 2 inches apart if you're using 3/16 longerons. You may need to re-design the upright layout to accomadate that. The cross section of the 3/16 is the same and using 1/8 x1/4 but the square stock will provide more all around local stregth against bowing inwards from handling or shrinkage in the covering. In line with all this things like the landing gear mounting points will require more structure that spreads and tapers the loads out into more wood. The things we get away with on smaller and much lighter models just don't translate when you double the size.

Nov 08, 2009, 07:06 PM	#3
paulatgis Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 111	You're right Bruce 200 grams is much more realistic. So far I am upto 170 grams minus tail and covering. I like the 3/16 balsa, but I don't know how to make curves with it, so I doubled up two 1/8 after setting them in a curve with glue. I should be ok, but I stocked up on the 3/16 for my next project, a twin Keystone bomber. I happened to have a 2205 Axion 1400kv motor and a 2s 460 mAh battery, so I'll try these out.

Nov 09, 2009, 02:33 PM	#4
BMatthews B for Bruce Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 4,683	For the strongly curved outlines you could always slice up some 3/16 by either 3/32 or even 3 layers of 1/16. But your doubled 1/8 square will be fine. Just be a little careful when squeezing it in the thin direction.

Nov 17, 2009, 08:41 PM	#8
aeronca52 Culper Junior Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: eastern pa Posts: 723	Nice idea! Did you fly the big one yet?

Nov 19, 2009, 10:41 AM	#9
paulatgis Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 111	it flies like a kite. I'm hoping to fly it real high, then just float it down like a glider. the motor appears to be a good match. it putts around level at a third to half throttle, then climbs pretty fast anywheres near full throttle. i was hoping for smooth rolling landings but it doesnt have nearly the momentum for that on landing. ill take video pictures next time out. 2205 motor and apc 8x3.8 prop. 2s 450mAh battery.

Nov 19, 2009, 05:20 PM	#11
paulatgis Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 111	another picture Attached Thumbnails 51.4 KB · Views: 13

Nov 19, 2009, 10:03 PM	#14
aeronca52 Culper Junior Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: eastern pa Posts: 723	Nice videos Paul. Looks like it responds quick to lift (thermal). Seems to fly very nice, why not send the video to Guillows-maybe they will kit it as a park flyer!!

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