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Old Feb 27, 2010, 08:48 PM
Paratrooper
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Eubank Kentucky
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Originally Posted by beneteau3 View Post
Is that Dayton, TN; Dayton, MN; Dayton, OH; Dayton, WA; Dayton, WY; Dayton, PA; or Dayton, NV?
You're killing me Don. It will be the Dayton OH site near the Air Force Museum. Dates to be decided if things come together.
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Old Feb 27, 2010, 11:47 PM
Taking care of the pond.
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USA, CA, Fresno
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We have a Dayton, Ca.
I can make that one.
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Old Feb 27, 2010, 11:56 PM
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Dayton OH.
Ray, I'm gonna try real hard....
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Old Feb 28, 2010, 04:28 PM
Paratrooper
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Eubank Kentucky
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863 Posts
New forecourse and maincourse sail rigging

Shipmates: I couldn't wait for fair weather to try out these new course sails. It was only 36 degrees today but the winds NNW at 5-7 were perfect to try the new rigging out.

RESULTS: Mixed--when sailing with the wind off the quarter the ship moved through the water much the same as before. The sails looked a lot better with a belly in both sails that looked far more realistic.

Tacking revealed a whole new set of problems. I had trouble bringing the ship through the eye of the wind because the maincourse would hang up.

When I could get the sails filled properly she was too far off the wind line so wearing became the normal way to change course. I will have to do some work with the maincourse sail.

The forecourse would run through with a few hang ups on the foreward anchor but it would bounce over once the yard moved enough. The maincourse sail would not rotate properly and would appear to hang up with the sheets and tacks stopping in mid swing. I had absolutely no problem in the shop with this happening once I had them adjusted but on the water I had some very frustrating moments.

It is possible that the very large foot on the maincourse has something to do with this as my wire clew line may not be strong enough to force the sheet blocks around. I thought of putting a wire in the foot of the sail to help with the spread, and I wish now I had sewn one in as the bolt rope, and it may be necessary to do something along those lines anyway.

Back to the drawing board. The next time I try this it is going to be warmer. How in the world did sailors before the mast manage barefoot is beyond me.

Not all was frustration. A former 506th of the 101st paratrooper stopped to chat and we had a great time talking parachute operations from C-130s.
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Old Feb 28, 2010, 05:16 PM
SCALE Sailor
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United States, MD, Severna Park
Joined Apr 2008
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On the courses, the tacks are the important lines because they haul the clew forward when sailing on the wind. The sheets just hold the sail back when sailing off the wind. The lee sheet can't be too slack or the lee leech will flutter.

You may want to look at active tacks, that is, having them controlled with the braces. The sheets can run as you have them, but something to haul the tacks will make a huge difference.

I know you have me rethinking Constellation's set-up and maybe adding an extra pair of drums on the winches for the tacks.

I plan to use heavy weed-whacker line in the foot of my courses - you should be able to add that after the fact. Melt the ends a little to kill any sharp edges.
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Old Feb 28, 2010, 05:52 PM
Paratrooper
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Eubank Kentucky
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Originally Posted by JerryTodd View Post

I plan to use heavy weed-whacker line in the foot of my courses - you should be able to add that after the fact. Melt the ends a little to kill any sharp edges.
The weed-whacker line will bend but it will not hold a shape in the sail foot, I thought of that. Piano wire works and the sails I had on before worked great, but I liked the way Dan's brig looked with his sheets and tacks. It is obvious I have something not quite right, but once I find it I am sure things will work better.

The wire in the bolt rope is still the best idea and I may try to rig that in the maincourse. The forecourse works fine as it is now but it is a much smaller sail in the foot than the maincourse.

As far as the tacks and sheets go, Dan's rigging works fine on his ship. Mine is still in the proving stages. I tried them tighter but they do not work properly at all, even worse than the trouble I had on the water today, and you are right, if they are too loss they do not work either.

As far as more servos and winches are concerned--that is definitely out. I have enough stuff to maintain now. An operable tack will pull the clew around but so will the yard if I ever get it rigged correctly.
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Old Feb 28, 2010, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Paratrooper View Post
It is obvious I have something not quite right, but once I find it I am sure things will work better.

The wire in the bolt rope is still the best idea and I may try to rig that in the maincourse. The forecourse works fine as it is now but it is a much smaller sail in the foot than the maincourse.
Ray, From your pics, I'd say yu are closer than you think to getting it right. Syren took some playing before she worked too.

Some observations - the wires of the main course may not be offering enough outward pressure - they look like they should enter the yards farther inboard.

The foot of the maincourse in sail diagrams I have seen shows a slightly less wide foot than head. Seems you have a wider foot. That means the distance traveled by the end of the main yardarm is less than required to bring the clew around the same percentage of it's inscribed circle. Making the main course foot a bit narrower could maybe help the pull-around a lot.
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Old Feb 28, 2010, 06:20 PM
Paratrooper
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Eubank Kentucky
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Originally Posted by DanL View Post
Ray, From your pics, I'd say yu are closer than you think to getting it right. Syren took some playing before she worked too.

Some observations - the wires of the main course may not be offering enough outward pressure - they look like they should enter the yards farther inboard.

The foot of the maincourse in sail diagrams I have seen shows a slightly less wide foot than head. Seems you have a wider foot. That means the distance traveled by the end of the main yardarm is less than required to bring the clew around the same percentage of it's inscribed circle. Making the main course foot a bit narrower could maybe help the pull-around a lot.
Dan: I ended up going outboard because the wire bent at the clew was one piece and that is as far as a 3' section would go. I did not make them as originally planned with a brass clew block but that may have to happen.

All the sail plans for the maincourse of the frigates show a wider foot than the forecourse sail. I also made it a little smaller than the SC&H design but it is still a very large sail. You're probably right about the inscribed circle but since I can barely get 2+2 to make 4, my mathimatic skills are mostly trial and error. I hope I don't end up with a whole bunch of peckerwood holes in my yard because of all this trial and error.

I am going to tack a wire on to the foot of the sail at the bolt rope and see if that works. If it does, I will mount it permanently and I will probably have to make new clew lines with longer piano wire. The foot stays stretched but when I try to tack around the sheet tightens up and that causes the tack on the other side to pull the sail out of shape. It happens on both sails but mostly the large main course.

2213 hours: I managed to get a wire in the foot of the sail by taking a few stitches loose here and there. Didn't help things at all. I am going to pick up some heavier wire tomorrow and try again by making a new clew block out of brass and solder the wires in so I can get longer sections and get them more to the pivot point of the yard. I am going to get stubborn now but I am not putting the old course sails back on unless it is an absolute necessity, and of course I learn to sail again before the gun fight.
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Last edited by Paratrooper; Feb 28, 2010 at 09:16 PM. Reason: More work, less success!
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Old Mar 01, 2010, 02:14 PM
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United States, Death Valley
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Im blown away with these ships... awesome. So what are the sail controls for your Surprise? are you furling some of them via rc too? A vid clip of the working rigging moving would be cool
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Old Mar 01, 2010, 04:23 PM
Paratrooper
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Eubank Kentucky
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Originally Posted by SilentHunter View Post
Im blown away with these ships... awesome. So what are the sail controls for your Surprise? are you furling some of them via rc too? A vid clip of the working rigging moving would be cool
I am using winch servos and drums to rotate the yards through the bracing. The servos are located in the hull. All sail furling work is done by hand before I set sail by judging from experience what the ship will handle. I miss this from time to time and I have too much aloft for wind conditions, but most of the time she sails without a whole lot of healing.

I will be putting some video up once I get these new sheets and tacks working as well as firing the carronades on the port side once the servo slow arrives. RG
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Old Mar 01, 2010, 09:36 PM
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United States, MN, Brainerd
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Course sheets - forgotten detail

Ray,
I don't think I pointed out that the original rigging I had on the forecourse clews was elastic bungee. I took that off and put on solid line, but still have a section of bunge where the sheet ties off to the eyebolt on the hull.
The bungeee allows keeping the loop a bit taught, but having the "give" so as not to get hung up. Look at the pic. The bungee addition may help you out.
Forgot about this detail.
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Old Mar 01, 2010, 11:40 PM
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Monterey Bay California
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Beautiful ship, Paratrooper!
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Old Mar 02, 2010, 06:33 AM
Paratrooper
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Eubank Kentucky
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Originally Posted by DanL View Post
Ray,
I don't think I pointed out that the original rigging I had on the forecourse clews was elastic bungee. I took that off and put on solid line, but still have a section of bunge where the sheet ties off to the eyebolt on the hull.
The bungeee allows keeping the loop a bit taught, but having the "give" so as not to get hung up. Look at the pic. The bungee addition may help you out.
Forgot about this detail.
I have to confess I saw this and for some reason I thought you had removed them as well. Since I am presently reworking the clew lines on the main course I will add this as well. I did try an adjustable test section in this location but I still kept getting hung up when the lines were too tight. Maybe with the new clew lines things will turn easier.

It is supposed to get to near 70 a week from now and I am going to try the lake again.
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Old Mar 03, 2010, 03:39 PM
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United States, Death Valley
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Super cool stuff... Got any shots of the interior?

What does the kit look like? Their website is really sparse on pictures of stuff...

Oh and im guessing there is an external ballast setup that goes under the keel...?
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Old Mar 03, 2010, 04:45 PM
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United States, Death Valley
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I found your build, man how neat. Must be really enjoyable taking your time and building that thing, let alone sailing it.
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