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Old Nov 27, 2012, 01:44 AM
Square-rigger
meatbomber's Avatar
Klatovy, Czech Republic
Joined Mar 2004
3,349 Posts
yea we are but you have the only seaworthy SC&H ship so bloody get out there and sail !
oh and then make some videos, very nice pics and detailed sailing reports
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 03:13 AM
Pond Sailer's Avatar
United States, CA, Castro Valley
Joined Mar 2012
166 Posts
Your the best Meatbomber

I was worried in that these halls were echoing with emptiness.

You say to get bloody busy and make videos, Well then you might have seen my first posting of my sail with Surprise that I put up 3 days ago. if not I will shamelessly post it here for you.

I want to also share for those who are just finding this subject for the first time and have wondered what it takes to sail a big ship. This is one of the videos and I offer anyone interested in it after watching to go to the posters channel and look up the rest of these.

How to sail a tall ship 101

How to sail a Full-Rigged-Ship - The Sørlandet Part 1 (11 min 59 sec)




How to sail a Full-Rigged-Ship - The Sørlandet Part 2 (9 min 39 sec)




How to sail a Full-Rigged-Ship - The Sørlandet Part 3 (14 min 59 sec)




and now for the shameless part. my first video of what I hope will be many more.



HMS Surprise, new beginnings (4 min 13 sec)
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 06:41 AM
Square-rigger
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Klatovy, Czech Republic
Joined Mar 2004
3,349 Posts
Love the Training videos great stuff thanks
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 09:49 AM
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DanL's Avatar
United States, MN, Brainerd
Joined Oct 2004
2,398 Posts
Gary,
Definitely following this thread. Always looking forward to new posts.
Really great to see your video and to know you are carrying on sailing the Surprise. Good of you to add the credits to Ray and Renee.
I know Surprise will continue to be great fun for you (and for all of us out here when you post pics and vids).
Get in touch if you want to discuss gun operation. Getting the guns to fire consistently is a continuing challenge. It's great when you can get them all to fire.
Freaked me out to see the "fast boats" zipping around Surprise - hope those guys are careful....
Best,
Dan
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 09:58 AM
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Joined Oct 2006
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wonderful...thanks!
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 10:42 AM
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United States, CA, San Jose
Joined Aug 2012
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Excellent Gary!!

Kind regards
tim
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 11:58 AM
Square-rigger
meatbomber's Avatar
Klatovy, Czech Republic
Joined Mar 2004
3,349 Posts
this is also a wicked view of ship rigged vessel runnign before the wind
Tall ships race 2010 - Antwerpen - Ålborg CR (2 min 40 sec)


Interstingly their headsails are all up and apparently drawing well. towards the end of the video there what looks like quite a yaw to stbd. makes you wonder this why they have the heads`ls up to prevent broaching to ?
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 10:29 PM
Pond Sailer's Avatar
United States, CA, Castro Valley
Joined Mar 2012
166 Posts
Meatbomber, that is a wicked video. Made me think what it must have looked like to see a ship like that pushing what I would call military power to catch you. It would give you pause on the trouble that was coming to call.

You can see that he still could have put out more cloth. I'll have to look at it a few times to see it better on what your pointing out.

G
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 05:44 AM
Paratrooper
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Eubank Kentucky
Joined Nov 2007
872 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by meatbomber View Post
this is also a wicked view of ship rigged vessel runnign before the wind http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjAnF...eature=related

Interstingly their headsails are all up and apparently drawing well. towards the end of the video there what looks like quite a yaw to stbd. makes you wonder this why they have the heads`ls up to prevent broaching to ?
The beauty of sailing a model such as Surprise is that fine adjustments can be made very quickly on the model while the real ship is stuck with what ever they have up at the time of a wind shift. Did you notice the fore and main course sails lufting some? On the model you can adjust slightly for that.

A very interesting video though showing the power of the wind in the sails.

Also--sailing a full rigged ship is much easier with a model. Wearing around requires only that you keep the sails full and go hard around on the very tough rudder assembly. Heh heh......All those commands given are somewhat useless with the model as all I ever had to do was to "Wear around!" That had to be the only course open to me many times when I could not gain sufficent speed or coordination to actually tack around.

During a gun fight several commands that I can remember clearly--"Lets get broad side and remember that I have working guns only on the PORT side!" Didn't sound too seaman like but man was it fun.

I did notice they did not have a driver up, I have no idea whether this ship would have rigged one but I always found that running with the wind that the driver run out did help with the keeping on course. I very rarely struck the driver on Surprise so I might be all wrong about it helping to stay on course.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 07:45 AM
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United States, MN, Brainerd
Joined Oct 2004
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It's a race. Looks as if maybe the vessel being videoed (A) is bearing off to avoid the vessel (B) with the videographer. B is essentially cutting off A. As she changes course, she dumps some wind. It takes a lot of people and a fair amount of time to re-adjust the yards - a lot of braces need to be hauled....
I was in a race from Milwaukee to Chicago on the brig Niagara - it gets very competitive and the crew is very busy 24/7. Than goodness we had calmer seas than in this vid.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 09:29 AM
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Bozeman, Montana, United States
Joined Aug 2003
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The Christian Radich skipper took off the driver to reduce the chance of broaching. The sails missing from the mizzen are a) to give clear air to the mainmast, and b) to also reduce broaching. When running, sails aft of the CLR are destabilizing to the course track. The skipper of the Christian Radich knew what he was doing; good thing because racing downwind is the most dangerous course, particularly in a sea with large swells. The art of sailing a multimasted ship is in figuring out which sails are most important for the course set. While painters like to show ships with all sails flying at once, that's not the set that gives the most speed. In this case, that would also not be the set that gives the most safety.

Steering downwind with a following sea is notoriously the hardest, and most dangerous, job for a helmsman. The hardest part is keeping her straight - each time the stern lifts, the bow tries to dig in and make the hull trip over itself (pitchpole), or veer in course. . The hull can either veer port or starboard, depending on the heel at the moment the bow digs in; she will veer towards the uphill side because the bow wave is unsymmetrical. The danger comes from pooping- if the stern fails to lift on a wave, it will break over the transom and wash away the helmsman. The Radich helmsmen were probably tied in, to something, to keep that from happening.

In the Bay of Biscay, we on the helm of HMBark Endeavour tied ourselves in: we were not afraid of pooping, but of simply sliding away from the wheel when the ship heeled 40+degrees in the gale...a piece of rope can be your friend :-)

The sails don't provide stability when sailing downwind since there is no balancing of the ballast vs the sail force...thus it's difficult to predict which way she's going to heel. On other courses, you know she is (probably) going to heel to leeward, and the bow is going to try to climb to windward. But on a downwind course, the heel can be either way, 50:50, and the swerve can be either way. The helmsman has to anticipate the swerve, and move the rudder before it starts - the inertia of the ship means that once the swerve starts, it's too late to fix with rudder. Just as with our models, the force of the sails, along with inertia, will overpower the rudder. It's like balancing a broom on your palm - if you anticipate which way the broom is going to fall, a tiny correction (rudder) is enough to keep it upright...but if you are late, even the biggest correction will be insufficient and the broom with fall (or the ship will swerve).

HMBark Endeavour had a blunt bow, so was always trying to swerve no matter what course was set. Christian Radich has a sharp, clipper bow. That bow is less likely to swerve out of ornery-ness, but it will swerve if it diggs into a wave while the ship is heeled.

On the video, the helmsman got it right for most of the shot, but either misjudged, or the ship overpowered the rudder, during the swerve to starboard that MB spotted. As MB said, the jibs were probably set to help control the ship if she did swerve. The courses had started to backwind, so the swerve was severe. If the swerve had not been stopped, the ship would have been in danger of dismasting - few ships could withstand all sails aback in winds of that velocity.

We "Endeavours" got to see Christian Radich anchored near us while we were anchored off Porto Santo island, in the Madeiras. She had arrived in the night while my watch was below in our hammocks. The Radich crew (she's a sail-training ship) had put in such a tight harbor furl on her squaresails that I thought they had roller reefing :-). No such easy machines for the Radich crew, it's was all done the old-fashioned way. Their safety "harness" for going aloft was a length of rope that each sailor had made for him/her self: a clip eyespliced in one end, and a stopper knot put in the other. It was tied around their waist before they went aloft. It would not have been fun to fall back against a rope around your waist, at least we had 2" belting to support our backs. Other tallships provided real harnesses, rock climber style. The crew of Radich was very friendly, and we swapped crew via boats, so I got to go aboard Radich, very nice, very beautifully maintained. While we raised yards standing in a line and hauling hand-over-hand, the "Radichs" tailed on to the halyard and ran-away with it. Ah to be 18 and go to sea again :-).
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 09:45 AM
Paratrooper
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Eubank Kentucky
Joined Nov 2007
872 Posts
I love it!

I too saw this ship in the Baltimore harbor a number of years ago during a tall ships festival there. We had a 40' ketch rig boat that my former employer rented and skippered. We had a great time going around some of the tall ships that were visiting.

You are right about the sail choices--and on these models without servo equpped sail setting seamen you have to live with what you have up on what ever course you are on. I always had a thrill of trying to sail down wind as the ship would need constant rudder control. Minding the wind line with the yard winches would help little and too much sail would always end up running off the wind line. I sailed a few times in light weather with the stuns'ls aloft and it was always a fight to try to get the ship back. I had to beach the ship and strike all that extra canvas in order to tack back to the launch ramp. One time I had to tow the ship back because there was no safe landing site on the down wind end of the lake.

It would be interesting to see one of these with operating sails but it would take two radios and operators to get around some of the concentration problems that come up when trying to do all this alone. Then of course there is running the camera--another day!
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 09:52 AM
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United States, CA, San Jose
Joined Aug 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanL View Post
It's a race. Looks as if maybe the vessel being videoed (A) is bearing off to avoid the vessel (B) with the videographer. B is essentially cutting off A. As she changes course, she dumps some wind. It takes a lot of people and a fair amount of time to re-adjust the yards - a lot of braces need to be hauled....
If only there was a microphone for us to hear. Can only imagine what words were coming out of the skippers mouth.

Great stories everyone. Thanks for posting them.

Tim
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 11:31 PM
Pond Sailer's Avatar
United States, CA, Castro Valley
Joined Mar 2012
166 Posts
Well I am totally blown away with all the background talent with all the guys in this room. So you all are real tall ship seamen. Or close enough. Your sailing talents and knowing the lines and cloth makes for getting into these models a no brainer. Rachel and I crewed a 50' trimarinde 20ton heavy. Two master and a hoot of a time every time. Did this for over ten years as key crew members. We became pilots after that for 23 years and owned our own plane. Funny how they both have similar connections. Add riding a cycle to that and you are having fun. Would be interesting one night at a group sailing to get a bit more into those storys.

Why I wanted to jump in was not to change the topics fun run, in fact please keep it going. But I can use your help on something you may already know what I need. Tim you said "if only there was a microphone" , I have been searching for over a month looking for recordings of capt. and crew working a tall ship. I am now thinking ill have to look into old movies to pull mp3 recordings of this. I want to build a folder of sound effects of the men on a working ship. It's good to find music for our videos and have cannon sounds for sound effect. But now I need crew. What have you got that will make for a perfect voiceover. I still have nothing.

Thanks.

Gary
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 11:49 PM
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United States, CA, San Jose
Joined Aug 2012
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Hi Gary

Already have a folder of sound files going as I plan on having a sound card on board (mostly battle commands at the moment). Not hard to sort out. We'll just need to make sure ours are random enough that they aren't calling out the same orders at the same time while sailing together. LOL

kindest regards
Tim
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