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Old Oct 05, 2011, 10:30 AM
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Dan,

Now you've got me excited! I was looking for an inspiration Brig to model. I found the 1811 refit of USS Enterprise (Yes, I'm a Trekkie too) in 2 mast form to be the winner there... Now with your suggestion of the Rattlesnake, I am definately sold on the Brig. Now just need to sell the wife on the purchase...
My skills are fair - years of doing sets and lighting in theatre and model planes. What I need to improve upon is some attention to detail (most of my stuff has had to be functional and look good from 20 feet out) and patience. Both things that I am looking forward to with this build. I want (need) something to go home to and enjoy peacefully researching and working on over the course of months. Reading your story of building out Syren, sailing her and then refitting over the winter months seems to be exactly what I am looking for... I came to dread the Scale warbirds for as much as I love them - putting $3,000+ into the air knowing it have a 50/50 chance of coming home as sawdust made it tough at times. That's a fear much lessened by sailing.

I'm definately in; now just a matter of researching both ships to make a choice on who to model. Tha challenge of ship rig seems exciting!
Thanks Dan!
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Old Oct 05, 2011, 11:14 AM
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Best of luck to you WarpdSpazm. I've also been hearing the siren songs of the SC&H 1:24s. Maybe in the future...

Does anyone know how many of those model ships are actually sailing, or what the record is for the largest "fleet sail" of 1:24s?
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Old Oct 05, 2011, 02:13 PM
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.........I think I am in the wrong thread.
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Old Oct 05, 2011, 09:49 PM
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United States, MD, Severna Park
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The Snake - Rattlesnake was another ship.
Snake was a cruiser class brig rigged as an 18 gun ship-sloop.
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Old Oct 07, 2011, 07:54 AM
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Hi Jerry... Been a long time! October 2002 to be exact...

Not sure what you meant by your post in regards to the Rattlesnake and The Snake. Would you be able to expand on that?

From what I've found, modeling the Rattlesnake on the SC&H brig is the way I am going to go. Gives me everything I'm looking for all in one package and so far to date, I can't find any postings of someone who's done similiar, so it will be a new thread with some new information. I'm looking at the Model Expo kit (along with the "required books") to get me started. Funding to commission a new ship is being held up in Congress at this time.

On another front, Anyone have a list of tools, or other such specialty items that I will likely need to get? Spec'ing out the workshop IS something I can do now.

Thanks!
Ray M
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Old Oct 07, 2011, 09:45 AM
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Well HMS Snake was a Cruizer Class Sloop that was ship rigged, so really only the difference is the Rig and a bit in the deck layout. i`m planning to build mine as ship sloop too... once i get back to it.

Rattlesnake was a US Privateer with 20guns from around 1780 http://www.awiatsea.com/Privateers/R...BClark%5D.html
Ship rigged, somewhat smaler (only 1/2 the tonnage) and with a raised quarterdeck and forcastle, a quite sexy little ship i have to say
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Old Oct 07, 2011, 10:10 AM
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Thanks Meat. Really appreciate that link for Rattlesnake! I guess I will have to some more research on the hull lines between the two.
And Yes, I also seem to find the scale would be more 1/20th than 1/24 putting RS on the SC&H brig. I will be moving away from scale modeling a bit, but I think I will end up with a final work that I will love.

The quarterdeck and forcastle will also help with the workings of firing cannons too so that's a nice little bonus. I have a special effects friend that's rattling his brain to devise a multi-firing system plan. Dan's system is definately the foundation and if my friend draws a blank, I plan to follow Dan's cannon system, but the idea of firing more than once, and possibly randomizing the order, is something I can't pass up looking into. It's also somthing I can work on while the wife... errr. Congressional committee is in a financial deadlock.

If Philip is still keeping an eye on these forums, do you see any problems with putting a 3 mast rig on the SC&H Brig?
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Old Oct 07, 2011, 12:56 PM
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List of Book

OK,
Possibly a bit off topic, but as I've seen these through all the threads, i thought I'd try and put them all together. This is the list of books I am planning to buy in preparation of building and sailing a Square Rigged ship. Please let me know thoughts as well as any other literature of value.

Modelling the brig-of-war Irene: A handbook for the building of historical ship-models - E. W Petrejus

Seamanship in the Age of Sail: An Account of the Shiphandling of the Sailing Man-Of-War 1600-1860, Based on Contemporary Sources - John H. Harland

The Ship Model Builder's Assistant - Charles G. Davis

The Art of Rigging - George Biddlecombe

The History Of American Sailing Ships - Howard I. Chapelle

Eagle Seamanship: A Manual for Square-Rigger Sailing - Eric C. Jones

The last two might be more for me specifically (Rattlesnake is in Chappelle's book and Eagle will be of interest for my 'lil brother applying to the USGC Academy this month).
I have an Amazon bill here of about $240.. Ouch!


UPDATE: I'm unable to stop myself sometimes. I just ordered them all 10 minutes ago.
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Old Oct 07, 2011, 05:25 PM
Square-rigger
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Klatovy, Czech Republic
Joined Mar 2004
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looks like a good start for a library

another good reference is:

http://www.amazon.de/Rigging-Period-.../dp/1557509700
There is a link online where there is most of that book
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Old Oct 07, 2011, 06:12 PM
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Chapelle's plans are available from the Smithsonian
http://americanhistory.si.edu/csr/shipplan.htm
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Old Oct 07, 2011, 09:00 PM
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Ooops - Jerry knew what I meant to say. The brig hull rigged with three masts: that would be the Snake, not Rattlesnake.
Here are some pics. Caldercraft makes a model (in 1/64, I think.)

A short description from the kit:
"...The Snake class were ship rigged sloops. This class was very business like with a flush deck and nine cannons or carronades each side, they were very fast and seaworthy. As originally built Snake had a full ordinance of 32 pounder carronades. Carronades replaced the carriage guns because at close quarters the short range carronades proved devastating to their opponents. Class dimensions were: length 100’; breadth 30’6”; displacement 382 tons with a crew of 121."

The SC&H Grasshopper/Irene prototype had the same hull dimensions, so the HMS Snake is the logical prototype to build at 1/24 scale on this hull.

On your SC&H comment...Philip was passionate about producing the SC&H models and about seeing them built and sailed. He must be very busy with his real business or I'm sure he would be posting here.
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Old Oct 08, 2011, 06:27 AM
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Warpd -
Sounds like a serious effort is starting...maybe start a separate build thread.

Comments on conversion to three masts:
The SC&H kit comes with a solid deck - only the hatch is cut open. The hatch opening as laid out would overlap the mainmast position in a three mast configuration. Perhaps SC&H could supply a deck without the pre-cut hatch, or perhaps they could shift the hatch position/shape to your specification.
I don't know how they cut out the hatch, but it is a very neat job with a very narrow kerf.
With a ship rig, the main and mizzen yards are best controlled by the same servo (per Ray's comments on his Surprise). That means you can fit all the necessary servos in the hull, basically in the same configuration as for the brig (including the extra servo for the headsails).
For the guns, getting a realistic deep/loud report seems impossible from the 1/4" bore mini-popper guns...sooo...going for flash and as much smoke as possible seems to be the best approach.
If you have a friend into special effects electronics, I recommend an electronc switching device rather tha mechanical. Also, maybe an oil injection over a hot elemnt would produce more smoke than a small BP charge and it would be much easier to get a repeat fire. Just some random thoughts....
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Old Oct 08, 2011, 12:31 PM
Square-rigger
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Klatovy, Czech Republic
Joined Mar 2004
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Warpd, i have both the Caldercraft kit (hull pretty much finished built, ready for RC) and build the SC&H Brig also configured like the Snake. I`ve kind of stalled out on both builds due to a focus shift back to helis... but the building season (winter) is fast approaching and i feel my building spirit is being rekindled
maybe we should take this further in this therad:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=520465
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Old Oct 09, 2011, 03:10 PM
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MB,
I will move over to the other thread as suggested...
Dan,
I will start a new thread as soon as I put an order in for a ship. Without funding approval from Congress, it'd be a pretty quiet place.
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Old Oct 09, 2011, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meatbomber View Post
looks like a good start for a library

another good reference is:

http://www.amazon.de/Rigging-Period-.../dp/1557509700
There is a link online where there is most of that book
Thanks for this link

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