CopterX 4 Bladed

kilo2018 · Nov 03, 2009, 03:49 PM

Been considering getting this 4 bladed head
http://www.ehirobo.com/shop/product_...oducts_id=8480
from Ehibro for my CopterX.
If I am reading the description correctly I am gathering that I will not need a gyro. Is that correct?

Sincerely,
Karl in Colorado

MrRetro · Nov 03, 2009, 03:53 PM

No. This type of rotor head eliminates the flybar, and usually doing that requires some other piece of electronic stabilization equipment to compensate. The tail gyro is still necessary. And actually, the link is for the 4 BLADES only, I don't think this is for the actual 4 bladed rotor head.

Here is the link to the head:

http://www.ehirobo.com/shop/product_...vifs4qfnok0933

kilo2018 · Nov 03, 2009, 05:11 PM

Yea sorry about that link. Mine was to the blades for that 4 bladed head. yours is the correct one.
Now if I did get that 4 bladed head (with gyro of course) will it be more or less stable that the stock two bladed head?

Sincerely,
Karl in Colorado

Xrayted · Nov 03, 2009, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kilo2018

Yea sorry about that link. Mine was to the blades for that 4 bladed head. yours is the correct one.
Now if I did get that 4 bladed head (with gyro of course) will it be more or less stable that the stock two bladed head?

Sincerely,
Karl in Colorado

I considered a multiblade head on one of mine as well and did a little research. There is much more to consider than just bolting the head on your current heli set up. Outside of some type of flybarless, mutliaxis gyro setup (some can be expensive) you also have to consider the extra work your motor and electronics will be subjected to and the gearing and motor setup may need to be changed. You will have more blades so you will get more lift at a much lower RPM, so your setup will need to be changed accordingly or motor and ESC may not be happy. Also from what I have read it can be quite a challenge to balance and properly track the blades once you have more than 3 to deal with.

You may get more answers over in the scale heli section where many have already done this setup http://www.rcgroups.com/scale-helicopters-43/

kilo2018 · Nov 03, 2009, 06:42 PM

OK, I think I will just stick with my two blades.
Thanks so much for you input.

Sincerely,
Karl in Colorado

Xrayted · Nov 03, 2009, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kilo2018

OK, I think I will just stick with my two blades.
Thanks so much for you input.

Sincerely,
Karl in Colorado

Dont let anyone discourage you from doing it in any way.......just letting you know that I found out its more difficult than one would think is all.

dze · Nov 03, 2009, 07:16 PM

so Xrayted .. the claim "Light weight aluminum construction with floating blade grip design to elimate the need for 3D gyro system"
is BS? Can i fly one without a flybarless electronics or is it going to be like a moose on a steroid overdose?

Xrayted · Nov 03, 2009, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dze

so Xrayted .. the claim "Light weight aluminum construction with floating blade grip design to elimate the need for 3D gyro system"
is BS? Can i fly one without a flybarless electronics or is it going to be like a moose on a steroid overdose?

Cant say for sure since I havent tried it myself yet. Its possible to skip the stabilization as many have just used heavy or weighted blades topull it off, but they say the heli can be a little quirky and take some getting used to. My post was just based on my research so if you know something, please tell as I have always wanted to go the multiblade route myself. Havent found one person yet that said it was simple and and easy to set up. Setting the pitch and tracking and balancing all those blades is what is the biggest challenge from what I have read so far
I know RCG member SidneyW has set up many multiblades using no stabilization so maybe he will chime in here

dze · Nov 03, 2009, 07:48 PM

well im going to try ordering one and a fuse .. i already have a copilot II system sitting in a box i never got around to using if it is too squirrely and cant be flown easy with expo i'll try the cp2 system .. my curiosity has been sparked

.. if it works out and flys ok i may then go onto trying to source a 3-4 blade tail .. no promises on when this project will complete though looks like alot of work and trial and error testing

Gino CP · Nov 03, 2009, 09:10 PM

Keep us posted on the CopterX Black Angel thread. I was wondering about this 4 rotor head myself.

sidneyw · Nov 03, 2009, 10:30 PM

Since Xrayted mentioned my name here

I started to fool around multi bladed head earlier this year. Many thanks to Super-Hornet and Hoverup, they helped greatly. I am no expert AT ALL, remember!

Coptex flapping hinge head is similar to Super Hornet's design back a year ago. I took his advise and did or modded the quad head myself. Takes a couple of hours of fooling around and less than $10 of bolts, nuts and O-rings from local hardware store.

I don't use stabilization or gyro assist or mixers .... 1) I am cheap, 2) I don't think the cheapo 450 class today really worth the price of spending $300 on a least cost of SK360. Of course, when I am ready to go big and invest on $1,000 upward, I will for sure use HeliCommand Rigid.

Back to the topic, in my opinion, and trust me there will be many who will disagree instantly.

1) Understand mechanical set-up, the 90° phasing. This sounds complicated, rather, it is a simple setup. No matter the number of blades, 3-4 or 5 the same 90° phasing is needed. For 4-bladed head, it is very easy since each main blade is 90° to each other.

2) The choice of blade is very important to me, since there is no scale blades for the 450 class available I mod them myself. Heavy blades are good for stability and taming the cyclic; but they are bad for power system especially when I came across the use of 5-bladed head. I use plastic flex blades trimmed down to 25mm cord, added weight near the blade tip.

3) Many will advise you to go slow on HS. I don't keep it too low for two reasons; 1) tail authority; 2) flight characteristic with a little breeze. I like it to be around 2000-2200 depending on the number of blades; example 2200 on my Tri-bladed AS350 and 2000 on the bladed MD500e.

I don't upgrade ESC or motor neither; from 30A Dynam (Xrayted paid for one

) to Align 35A, Esky 3800kv, HDX 3500kv and Tonix 3000kv. I could only use 25C or higher C rating Lipo because it gets hot otherwise.

IMO, flapping hinge (design from Super Hornet allows different stiffness) allows a smoother flight transition from hover to forward or backward flight/movement. I also notice the use of less EXPO comparing the rigid head. However, the modded narrow blades reduces sensitivity some what to my liking. Narrow cord scale blades are coming to the market finally. In a few weeks, Flying-hobby.com will be offering them. Good news.

In summary -

I don't use stabilization, although it does not hurt (other than your wallet). Understand phasing, and why it is important.

Multi-blades on scale looks better; sounds different. It looks silly IMO to fly scale 3D heli.

Oops, I couldn't believe I said that.

BTW, I use Gino's highly recommended G401B for a year now; three of them and not a single issue.

Can't believe I wrote all these.

90° phasing on quad head

dze · Nov 03, 2009, 10:56 PM

they sell some blades at ehirobo specifically for the 4 blade angel head looks like .. guess i'll go for those to .. phasing? you lost me

3D with a multi head and a fuse? hell yes

*will do Gino if nobody beats me to it .. give it a month or so

Xrayted · Nov 03, 2009, 11:23 PM

Thanks for the input Sidney....I knew you I could summons your expertise into the thread :-)

sidneyw · Nov 03, 2009, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dze

they sell some blades at ehirobo specifically for the 4 blade angel head looks like .. guess i'll go for those to .. phasing? you lost me

3D with a multi head and a fuse? hell yes

1) eHirobo scale blades are CF, Waigo in Hong Kong sells them also. But, HeliArtist will be making them longer 23 x 325mm without the curved tip; flight review will be coming soon by Hoverup at the Scale Heli forum.

2) Phasing is done as shown in the photo above ... look at the links.

3) Yes, you could do it.

Gino,
There are several members at scale forum have flown the Coptex quad head.

Xrayted,
Glad to put in my 2 cents.

Gino CP · Nov 04, 2009, 04:44 AM

Oh I'll have a look. You got links? I can put them up on the Black Angel Thread for reference.

Nov 03, 2009, 03:49 PM	#1
kilo2018 Must Fly! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 181	CopterX 4 Bladed Been considering getting this 4 bladed head http://www.ehirobo.com/shop/product_...oducts_id=8480 from Ehibro for my CopterX. If I am reading the description correctly I am gathering that I will not need a gyro. Is that correct? Sincerely, Karl in Colorado

Nov 03, 2009, 10:30 PM	#11
sidneyw Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lake Zurich, IL Posts: 1,930	Since Xrayted mentioned my name here I started to fool around multi bladed head earlier this year. Many thanks to Super-Hornet and Hoverup, they helped greatly. I am no expert AT ALL, remember! Coptex flapping hinge head is similar to Super Hornet's design back a year ago. I took his advise and did or modded the quad head myself. Takes a couple of hours of fooling around and less than $10 of bolts, nuts and O-rings from local hardware store. I don't use stabilization or gyro assist or mixers .... 1) I am cheap, 2) I don't think the cheapo 450 class today really worth the price of spending $300 on a least cost of SK360. Of course, when I am ready to go big and invest on $1,000 upward, I will for sure use HeliCommand Rigid. Back to the topic, in my opinion, and trust me there will be many who will disagree instantly. 1) Understand mechanical set-up, the 90° phasing. This sounds complicated, rather, it is a simple setup. No matter the number of blades, 3-4 or 5 the same 90° phasing is needed. For 4-bladed head, it is very easy since each main blade is 90° to each other. 2) The choice of blade is very important to me, since there is no scale blades for the 450 class available I mod them myself. Heavy blades are good for stability and taming the cyclic; but they are bad for power system especially when I came across the use of 5-bladed head. I use plastic flex blades trimmed down to 25mm cord, added weight near the blade tip. 3) Many will advise you to go slow on HS. I don't keep it too low for two reasons; 1) tail authority; 2) flight characteristic with a little breeze. I like it to be around 2000-2200 depending on the number of blades; example 2200 on my Tri-bladed AS350 and 2000 on the bladed MD500e. I don't upgrade ESC or motor neither; from 30A Dynam (Xrayted paid for one ) to Align 35A, Esky 3800kv, HDX 3500kv and Tonix 3000kv. I could only use 25C or higher C rating Lipo because it gets hot otherwise. IMO, flapping hinge (design from Super Hornet allows different stiffness) allows a smoother flight transition from hover to forward or backward flight/movement. I also notice the use of less EXPO comparing the rigid head. However, the modded narrow blades reduces sensitivity some what to my liking. Narrow cord scale blades are coming to the market finally. In a few weeks, Flying-hobby.com will be offering them. Good news. In summary - I don't use stabilization, although it does not hurt (other than your wallet). Understand phasing, and why it is important. Multi-blades on scale looks better; sounds different. It looks silly IMO to fly scale 3D heli. Oops, I couldn't believe I said that. BTW, I use Gino's highly recommended G401B for a year now; three of them and not a single issue. Can't believe I wrote all these. 90° phasing on quad head Last edited by sidneyw; Nov 03, 2009 at 10:37 PM.

Nov 03, 2009, 10:56 PM	#12
dze Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 4,850	they sell some blades at ehirobo specifically for the 4 blade angel head looks like .. guess i'll go for those to .. phasing? you lost me 3D with a multi head and a fuse? hell yes will do Gino if nobody beats me to it .. give it a month or so Last edited by dze; Nov 03, 2009 at 11:07 PM.*

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Nov 03, 2009, 03:53 PM	#2
MrRetro Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: NYC, NY Posts: 1,540	No. This type of rotor head eliminates the flybar, and usually doing that requires some other piece of electronic stabilization equipment to compensate. The tail gyro is still necessary. And actually, the link is for the 4 BLADES only, I don't think this is for the actual 4 bladed rotor head. Here is the link to the head: http://www.ehirobo.com/shop/product_...vifs4qfnok0933

Nov 03, 2009, 05:11 PM	#3
kilo2018 Must Fly! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 181	Yea sorry about that link. Mine was to the blades for that 4 bladed head. yours is the correct one. Now if I did get that 4 bladed head (with gyro of course) will it be more or less stable that the stock two bladed head? Sincerely, Karl in Colorado

Nov 03, 2009, 06:42 PM	#5
kilo2018 Must Fly! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 181	OK, I think I will just stick with my two blades. Thanks so much for you input. Sincerely, Karl in Colorado

Nov 03, 2009, 07:16 PM	#7
dze Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 4,850	so Xrayted .. the claim "Light weight aluminum construction with floating blade grip design to elimate the need for 3D gyro system" is BS? Can i fly one without a flybarless electronics or is it going to be like a moose on a steroid overdose?

Nov 03, 2009, 07:48 PM	#9
dze Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 4,850	well im going to try ordering one and a fuse .. i already have a copilot II system sitting in a box i never got around to using if it is too squirrely and cant be flown easy with expo i'll try the cp2 system .. my curiosity has been sparked .. if it works out and flys ok i may then go onto trying to source a 3-4 blade tail .. no promises on when this project will complete though looks like alot of work and trial and error testing

Nov 03, 2009, 09:10 PM	#10
Gino CP Team Mulikow Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Manila, Philippines Posts: 9,273	Keep us posted on the CopterX Black Angel thread. I was wondering about this 4 rotor head myself.

Nov 03, 2009, 11:23 PM	#13
Xrayted I'm waiting on parts Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Standing over there Posts: 3,512	Thanks for the input Sidney....I knew you I could summons your expertise into the thread :-)

Nov 04, 2009, 04:44 AM	#15
Gino CP Team Mulikow Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Manila, Philippines Posts: 9,273	Oh I'll have a look. You got links? I can put them up on the Black Angel Thread for reference.