NEW Hyperion Atlas 180A ESC - Page 2

sneu · Nov 02, 2009, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTA

I dont get it, well a motor cut inverted a few inches above ground is no good on my heli

, But on the vertical path on a hotliner. Cant these planes glide

Of course they can glide--but with a controller burning in the nose one wants to land quickly

Steve

Synth · Nov 02, 2009, 01:47 PM

If their high end controllers work anything like their servo's it'll be a good thing.

OTA · Nov 02, 2009, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sneu

Of course they can glide--but with a controller burning in the nose one wants to land quickly

Steve

Yes, indeed

but the issue was a motor cut due to the overheating protection did shut it off. Then its to glide down
So, if the overheating and overcurrent is enabled and working, the controller will not burn......right or wrong ?

sneu · Nov 02, 2009, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTA

Yes, indeed

but the issue was a motor cut due to the overheating protection did shut it off. Then its to glide down
So, if the overheating and overcurrent is enabled and working, the controller will not burn......right or wrong ?

No one with a F5B contest plane has uses any safety features!

Steve

jjmouris · Nov 02, 2009, 02:23 PM

Wrong, when a fire starts (not always due to overheating) the over temp protection will be "to late".

What you need then as an automatic on board fire extinquisher.

Look, i spent all of this year trying all sorts of speed controllers and in my case atleast i had a reason to do it. That was, to get the most out of it for F5B competition.

I used to think like you...... oh lets try this and that. But now all i look for is 110% reliabilaty. If something is untested, let someone else test it!

It gets very expensive when you have to send the motor in for repair after a fire, need to replace the speed controller, re-vamp the smelly Lipo, repair or replace the burnt fuselage. And if you are unlucky, replace the complete plane!!! If the fire gets hold of the Lipo pack, the plane is history no matter if you land it. If your RX supply shorts out...... you know the rest.

Since you are going to use a Neu motor, the logical choice is a CC controller. They work well together. If you had a Plettenberg i would have said get a Schulze or Markus.

Joe

Dbox · Nov 02, 2009, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTA

I dont get it, well a motor cut inverted a few inches above ground is no good on my heli

, But on the vertical path on a hotliner. Cant these planes glide

In order to glide ,You have to get it up high enough.
It is shame to see the plane on launch when controller cuts off.
Yuri.

OTA · Nov 02, 2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sneu

No one with a F5B contest plane has uses any safety features!

Steve

Sorry, I dont intend to compete so i may allow for some safety features. Should i just sell my plane and just go with a Multiplex Easyglider since i dont intend to use my plane strictly according to the F5B way.

No wonder the recruitment is low

. Talk about living in a box

This reminds me about the first time i showed up with my 12S setup heli. The hardcore guys turned their back with statements like: "what a crap", "that will not work", "why dont you fly exactly the same we do" etc
Well, its quite common now. You know as you sell a lot of good low KV heli motors

Rant off

Sorry Steve, just had to say

Guys, listen up. IF the overcurrent and overtemperature functions is enabled and working, it will not ALLOW overcurrent and thus not overheat due to that. Neither will it catch fire as it did NOT allow for overcurrent (assume the ESC can handle the stated current levels). It may still overheat due to bad cooling, but that is a little more time consuming issue before the motor cuts.

If you disagree to this, you need to tell me the built in safety measures is not working. Is that so ?

And, lastly: Yes i understand that any of our components may fail in any matter and in any setup. Failures do happen from time to time, I know.
110% reliability does not exists....

sneu · Nov 02, 2009, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTA

Sorry, I dont intend to compete so i may allow for some safety features. Should i just sell my plane and just go with a Multiplex Easyglider since i dont intend to use my plane strictly according to the F5B way.

No wonder the recruitment is low

. Talk about living in a box

This reminds me about the first time i showed up with my 12S setup heli. The hardcore guys turned their back with statements like: "what a crap", "that will not work", "why dont you fly exactly the same we do" etc
Well, its quite common now. You know as you sell a lot of good low KV heli motors

Rant off

Sorry Steve, just had to say

Guys, listen up. IF the overcurrent and overtemperature functions is enabled and working, it will not ALLOW overcurrent and thus not overheat due to that. Neither will it catch fire as it did NOT allow for overcurrent (assume the ESC can handle the stated current levels). It may still overheat due to bad cooling, but that is a little more time consuming issue before the motor cuts.

If you disagree to this, you need to tell me the built in safety measures is not working. Is that so ?

And, lastly: Yes i understand that any of our components may fail in any matter and in any setup. Failures do happen from time to time, I know.
110% reliability does not exists....

I don't think that anyone suggests that you have to follow what others do. Of course you can enable all the safety features and they may help avoid cooking a motor or controller. I would also observe that the safety features don't always save you from problems as they often react too slow. Also consider that having a safety function kick in just as the plane is launched resulting in a broken model would make for a bad day

Kontroniks a couple years back had all sorts of "safety" features to save the controller--it would measure the resistance, inductance and a few other things before it would even arm. The result was that there were only a few motors that it would actually work with--it even did not work with some Kontronik motors!

From the pictures one might be concerned about the subject speed controller actually handling the rated current given the rather small wire size that seems to be shown in the pictures--I am guessing 12 gauge wire based on the scale of the wire to the servo plug.

IMHO you are better off using known good components rather then depending on safety features to protect you. After all with motors with nearly zero resistance and batteries that are able to source hundreds of amps the motor controller is the weak link. I do like the data logger function of the new ICE 200 controller--now you can see what is going on without having a separate logging gadget.

Steve

OTA · Nov 02, 2009, 04:14 PM

Agree, the controller is the weak link.

BTW, its not some years ago Kontronik had all sorts of "safety" features, it is now on the Jive series. I know, as i am one of the users and have been through all the issues. However, It saved me once when my motor shorted.
The "safety" feature was fast enough in that case. Any of the CC would leave me with a wrecked heli in the same situation. On the other hand, the Kontronik have also let me down big time and caused me to crash. But so have CC too, break even there

My initial question still stands, anyone tested the Atlas ?

After a lot of assumptions/statements and a few valid things (as the wire size seems a little underrated) it is not any reason the Atlas wont work to the given ratings. The safety features works, but may be too slow for heavy bursts which may cause a fire.

I am not talking about pushing it to 250-300A.

Still need to say that I fully understand that you say go with the proven.

David H · Nov 02, 2009, 04:50 PM

Quote:

After a lot of assumptions/statements and a few valid things (as the wire size seems a little underrated) it is not any reason the Atlas wont work to the given ratings

.
It may well work at the given rating, the only reason to consider one is that it might be cheaper than an alternative similar controller. It looks closer to a CC125 than a CC180 in capability and I know a CC125 can handle 330A in bursts, mine did for 3 yrs until it didn't cope with 400A for more than 6 climbs.

jjmouris · Nov 02, 2009, 05:35 PM

Hotliner/F5B power trains take the MOST power during launch. Then the next highest power is during the startup of each subsequent power up.

In other words. If the current limiting is set to 180A and your setup pulls 160A peak normally, there is a good chance the controller will swich off during launch. This will result in a broken plane most likely. The delay from motor on to the controller turning itself off can be anything from imidiately up to near the end of the climb. You could also see it modulate the power and potentially go up in flames becouse of that. Don't ask me how i know.

This is why we set for instance the low voltage cut off to 4 volts and the over current protection off on the CC controllers. To avoid exactly that behaviour. And not just in F5B competition but in any high performance plane.

I've tried MGM Compro controllers and so have others. They have pritty good ratings at over 240A. Still i can't make them work reliably in my F5B due to all the safetys. And there is no option to switch them all off.

What does a CC Phoenix 125 cost?! It is the cheapest /highest power controller out there. And with some advice from the people here it is pritty easy to figure out a setup that will make sure it won't go up in flames.

Sure there is the new ICE series. But this still has to prove itself.

I am not trying to promote CC, i am not stuck in my ways. I use HV as well. Perhaps you should check out the "the case of the burning speed controllers" thread.

But when it comes to helping new people and my friends setup an F5B type plane, i use what i find the most reliable at a reasonable price. My friend Jeff now has a 1512/1D on 4S with a P180 in his S15 and is loving it. The 1512/1.5D on 5S would be similar. A P125 would probably be fine but why take the risk? The P180 is still loads cheaper then anything of similar size/capabilaty.

Anyway, do whatever you like. If you do try this Atlas 180 then let us know how you get on. Please post pictures of how you put the componants together and some data files would be good also. Otherwise we will never know what really was going on during your "testing".

OTA · Nov 02, 2009, 05:58 PM

Hi

Its not about saving the money, the initial issue was that my local store (walking distance from home) have the Hyperion Atlas, while i have to order the CC 125 or preferably the CC 180 from US. My preferred store (Esprit) is currently out of stock on the CC 180 making it a little harder what to do.
The CC stuff is pretty cheap, that is not the issue. And i like the computer setup.

Anyway, I can see the FAI start up mode is a amp boost as you describe. I will use glider "smooth" setup and hopefully less peak amps at start.
Anyway, any controller have some spare on the ratings for surges, so the current limiting (if enabled) will be above the 180A, as for any CC setup the same way.

I will also do some static testing before i do the first launch.

Well, go CC seems to be everyones (almost) general opinion whatsoever. I respect that and will sleep on it

Even i tested the Atlas 180 and it would go well, you know it wouldnt be valid for your use....having the throttle on a switch while i have it on a regular throttle curve on left stick

Thanks for all the input, giving a valuable discussion

jjmouris · Nov 02, 2009, 06:14 PM

Try direct from Steve Neu's webstore. Cheaper then expensive Esprit and probably better service to.

Bet the local store is not cheap anyway.

Regarding peak amps. Nothing to do with startup mode. The propellor simply is at a higher angle of attack due the slow forward speed. Also the Lipo will deliver less power at a linear decreasing rate for how ever long the motor is running. Check some of my static testing graphs and you will see this.

Throttle on a stick fine. Just don't use less then full power when the max current at full power is beyond the rating of the controller. It will burn!!! No question.

Also keep in mind this Hyperion might not work just like the Kontronik Jive. Another waste of time and money.

OTA · Nov 02, 2009, 06:29 PM

Steve Neu may be a option. Esprit is pretty cheap on CC compared though.
Dont forget i have to add the shipment and local VAT making things a decent amount more than advertized. But once again, its not the money, it was the time restraint and simplicity at this time. I still consider a Power Jive and that cost twice the CC 180 (yeah, call me crazy

)

The angle of attack versus forward speed makes sense. I will make partial throttle through the launch (now you tell me i will tip stall in addititon to the flames

).

I dont necessarily want the Hyperion, i was just looking for an easy pick as my Jive i intended to test did not work (factory defect).
I just hate to wait when i had almost put the stuff together for a test as soon as the weather permitted.

Lenny970 · Nov 02, 2009, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjmouris

I used to think like you...... oh lets try this and that. But now all i look for is 110% reliabilaty. If something is untested, let someone else test it!

Joe

So, are you going to get boring on us now Joe?

Lenny

Nov 02, 2009, 06:29 PM	#29
OTA Wannabee Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Norway Posts: 117	Steve Neu may be a option. Esprit is pretty cheap on CC compared though. Dont forget i have to add the shipment and local VAT making things a decent amount more than advertized. But once again, its not the money, it was the time restraint and simplicity at this time. I still consider a Power Jive and that cost twice the CC 180 (yeah, call me crazy) The angle of attack versus forward speed makes sense. I will make partial throttle through the launch (now you tell me i will tip stall in addititon to the flames). I dont necessarily want the Hyperion, i was just looking for an easy pick as my Jive i intended to test did not work (factory defect). I just hate to wait when i had almost put the stuff together for a test as soon as the weather permitted.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
For Sale Hyperion 5025 22b and 90 esc setup- new price!	ICRSHLTS	Aircraft - Electric - Power Systems (FS/W)	2	Oct 15, 2009 06:30 PM
Sold Like New Hyperion 30A ESC	Prime12	Aircraft - Electric - Power Systems (FS/W)	5	Aug 28, 2009 04:26 PM
Sold Like new Hyperion 30A ESC	Prime12	Aircraft - Electric - Helis (FS/W)	1	Aug 27, 2009 03:04 PM
Discussion New Turnigy ESC 12S 120A / 180A burst	Franz2002_01	Power Systems	14	Jul 17, 2009 02:40 AM
For Sale Seaking 180a Watercooled ESC	z400	Boats (FS/W)	4	Jul 07, 2009 12:11 PM

Nov 02, 2009, 01:47 PM	#17
Synth earth belowus drifting falling Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Victoria B.C. Canada Posts: 1,345	If their high end controllers work anything like their servo's it'll be a good thing.

Nov 02, 2009, 02:23 PM	#20
jjmouris High Performance Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Southampton, UK Posts: 2,522	Wrong, when a fire starts (not always due to overheating) the over temp protection will be "to late". What you need then as an automatic on board fire extinquisher. Look, i spent all of this year trying all sorts of speed controllers and in my case atleast i had a reason to do it. That was, to get the most out of it for F5B competition. I used to think like you...... oh lets try this and that. But now all i look for is 110% reliabilaty. If something is untested, let someone else test it! It gets very expensive when you have to send the motor in for repair after a fire, need to replace the speed controller, re-vamp the smelly Lipo, repair or replace the burnt fuselage. And if you are unlucky, replace the complete plane!!! If the fire gets hold of the Lipo pack, the plane is history no matter if you land it. If your RX supply shorts out...... you know the rest. Since you are going to use a Neu motor, the logical choice is a CC controller. They work well together. If you had a Plettenberg i would have said get a Schulze or Markus. Joe

Nov 02, 2009, 04:14 PM	#24
OTA Wannabee Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Norway Posts: 117	Agree, the controller is the weak link. BTW, its not some years ago Kontronik had all sorts of "safety" features, it is now on the Jive series. I know, as i am one of the users and have been through all the issues. However, It saved me once when my motor shorted. The "safety" feature was fast enough in that case. Any of the CC would leave me with a wrecked heli in the same situation. On the other hand, the Kontronik have also let me down big time and caused me to crash. But so have CC too, break even there My initial question still stands, anyone tested the Atlas ? After a lot of assumptions/statements and a few valid things (as the wire size seems a little underrated) it is not any reason the Atlas wont work to the given ratings. The safety features works, but may be too slow for heavy bursts which may cause a fire. I am not talking about pushing it to 250-300A. Still need to say that I fully understand that you say go with the proven.

Nov 02, 2009, 05:35 PM	#26
jjmouris High Performance Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Southampton, UK Posts: 2,522	Hotliner/F5B power trains take the MOST power during launch. Then the next highest power is during the startup of each subsequent power up. In other words. If the current limiting is set to 180A and your setup pulls 160A peak normally, there is a good chance the controller will swich off during launch. This will result in a broken plane most likely. The delay from motor on to the controller turning itself off can be anything from imidiately up to near the end of the climb. You could also see it modulate the power and potentially go up in flames becouse of that. Don't ask me how i know. This is why we set for instance the low voltage cut off to 4 volts and the over current protection off on the CC controllers. To avoid exactly that behaviour. And not just in F5B competition but in any high performance plane. I've tried MGM Compro controllers and so have others. They have pritty good ratings at over 240A. Still i can't make them work reliably in my F5B due to all the safetys. And there is no option to switch them all off. What does a CC Phoenix 125 cost?! It is the cheapest /highest power controller out there. And with some advice from the people here it is pritty easy to figure out a setup that will make sure it won't go up in flames. Sure there is the new ICE series. But this still has to prove itself. I am not trying to promote CC, i am not stuck in my ways. I use HV as well. Perhaps you should check out the "the case of the burning speed controllers" thread. But when it comes to helping new people and my friends setup an F5B type plane, i use what i find the most reliable at a reasonable price. My friend Jeff now has a 1512/1D on 4S with a P180 in his S15 and is loving it. The 1512/1.5D on 5S would be similar. A P125 would probably be fine but why take the risk? The P180 is still loads cheaper then anything of similar size/capabilaty. Anyway, do whatever you like. If you do try this Atlas 180 then let us know how you get on. Please post pictures of how you put the componants together and some data files would be good also. Otherwise we will never know what really was going on during your "testing".

Nov 02, 2009, 05:58 PM	#27
OTA Wannabee Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Norway Posts: 117	Hi Its not about saving the money, the initial issue was that my local store (walking distance from home) have the Hyperion Atlas, while i have to order the CC 125 or preferably the CC 180 from US. My preferred store (Esprit) is currently out of stock on the CC 180 making it a little harder what to do. The CC stuff is pretty cheap, that is not the issue. And i like the computer setup. Anyway, I can see the FAI start up mode is a amp boost as you describe. I will use glider "smooth" setup and hopefully less peak amps at start. Anyway, any controller have some spare on the ratings for surges, so the current limiting (if enabled) will be above the 180A, as for any CC setup the same way. I will also do some static testing before i do the first launch. Well, go CC seems to be everyones (almost) general opinion whatsoever. I respect that and will sleep on it Even i tested the Atlas 180 and it would go well, you know it wouldnt be valid for your use....having the throttle on a switch while i have it on a regular throttle curve on left stick Thanks for all the input, giving a valuable discussion

Nov 02, 2009, 06:14 PM	#28
jjmouris High Performance Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Southampton, UK Posts: 2,522	Try direct from Steve Neu's webstore. Cheaper then expensive Esprit and probably better service to. Bet the local store is not cheap anyway. Regarding peak amps. Nothing to do with startup mode. The propellor simply is at a higher angle of attack due the slow forward speed. Also the Lipo will deliver less power at a linear decreasing rate for how ever long the motor is running. Check some of my static testing graphs and you will see this. Throttle on a stick fine. Just don't use less then full power when the max current at full power is beyond the rating of the controller. It will burn!!! No question. Also keep in mind this Hyperion might not work just like the Kontronik Jive. Another waste of time and money.