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Old Aug 26, 2012, 10:11 PM
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United States, ID, Burley
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wings

Anyone know whats going on with diamond 2500 spare parts not being available ?? I cant find wings or tail wing any place ??
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Old Aug 27, 2012, 03:13 AM
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UK
Joined Oct 2001
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Replacement motor

Has any-one replaced the motor for the Diamond 2500 (4S version with flaps)?

Mine is occasionally failing to start, making odd noises and locking up if you try to turn the prop by hand (with the ESC disconnected for safety of course)
I think this is a failed motor bearing

The can says Art-tech C3720-01
The Manual says A3720

I suspect the 37 is stator diameter in millimeters, so the 20 is probable length again in millimeteres

I have measured the shaft at 5mm, at power at 580W

Thus I want a new 38mm O/D ~600W 4S outrunner with 5mm shaft happy to drive a 14"x8" folder.
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Old Aug 27, 2012, 05:17 AM
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Hi mitchellj
One other thing to have in mind is that the Kv value (rpm per volt) shall be around 600 rpm/V. I think the magnetic poles are 14 in the motor. Last week I measured 10000rpm at max speed without propeller and a 4s acc 16.5V giving Kv=606. Last year I measured 590 or something like. (You can check this thread somewere!...) I little weaker magnets now a year later gives maybe a little higher Kv. With propeller mounted I have around 6600rpm at max and 4S acc.

But dissmount the motor first and take it apart. It might be only some pebbles...

/BG


Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchellj View Post
Has any-one replaced the motor for the Diamond 2500 (4S version with flaps)?

Mine is occasionally failing to start, making odd noises and locking up if you try to turn the prop by hand (with the ESC disconnected for safety of course)
I think this is a failed motor bearing

The can says Art-tech C3720-01
The Manual says A3720

I suspect the 37 is stator diameter in millimeters, so the 20 is probable length again in millimeteres

I have measured the shaft at 5mm, at power at 580W

Thus I want a new 38mm O/D ~600W 4S outrunner with 5mm shaft happy to drive a 14"x8" folder.
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Old Aug 27, 2012, 05:47 AM
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These cheap motors always have cheap bearings in them. If the bearings are going bad, you can always just replace them with some better ones.
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Old Aug 27, 2012, 07:07 AM
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Bearings, pebbles, or even one of the magnets.

The adhesive holding the magnets on the majority of the cheap-o motors gets brittle over time and can let one of the magnets go. Then the rotor will hit it and fracture it.
It will stay in the motor but feel like there is something grinding in your motor when you turn it by hand.

A bad bearing may feel similar, or could feel like just a spot with a little more friction.

A bend motor shaft will just feel like a spot with a bit more friction when you turn it by hand, but will have lots of vibration when you run the motor. Bent shafts also destroy bearings & will shake your magnets loose.

Make sure to check everything on the motor if you have a 'less than scheduled landing'

Cheers,
Brian
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 09:02 PM
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well this just sucks ! Got fuselage with all electronics installed,but cant find wings or tail fin anyplace I sure hope there just out of stock. Buddy has this plane,we flew it maiden flight two days ago,and it is one sweet quite powerful glider !!
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 09:13 PM
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Are you piecing together a plane from nothing, or is this a crash repair? If the former best of luck with your search. Maybe send a e-mails to Nitroplanes and Banana Hobby asking them when they'll have parts back in stock. If the latter, it doesn't take much to get the pieces back into shape, and the foam glues back together pretty well(I wrecked mine a few times learning how to fly it )
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 11:08 PM
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Crow, Camber, and Reflex Settings; RealFlight 6 Simulator



I have programmed the switches on my RealFlight 6 controller (InterLink Elite) for Crow, Reflex, Camber, and Flaps.

These are model specific, so if you select another aircraft, the switch settings depend on how that other aircraft is setup.

The following is my how-to on accomplishing this setup.

Sorry for the long post. The RealFlight 6 User’s Manual only gives a general overview of how to edit an aircraft model, so this might be helpful to a few.

Note: If you have RealFlight but haven’t already loaded the D2500 in your simulator, the ‘Art-Tech Diamond 2500 Pro’ G5 model swap file can be downloaded here…
http://www.knifeedge.com/forums/down...=file&id=13662

The RF6 controller provides three toggle switches. I have them set up as follows for the ‘Art-Tech Diamond 2500 Pro’ simulator model.

a. Idle Up (3-way Switch) – Reflex, Normal, Camber
b. Dual Rates (2-way Switch) – Crow (Land) / High Rates, Low Rates
c.Smoke (2-way Switch) – Land (Flaps Down, override Knob setting), Normal (Flaps Up, w/Knob override)




To setup these switches on your computer, here’s my ‘how to’ …

With the D2500 aircraft model already selected, bring up the Aircraft Editor window. This is accomplished from the ‘Aircraft’ dropdown menu, by selecting ‘Edit Art-Tech Diamond 2500 Pro’.

In the lower left pane of the Aircraft Editor, you’ll see a list of objects which can be edited in the lower right pane. Note: You might want use the Aircraft Editor to ‘Save-As’ another copy of the ‘Art-Tech Diamond 2500 Pro’ for editing. That way if you mess up, you’ll still have an unedited clean version to load in Real Flight.

Click the [+} box to the left of the ‘Electronics’ item to expand the list and show all the ‘Servos’. Then as a reference, use your mouse to select one of the listed ‘Servos’ to see what ‘Parameters’ are listed for each in the Parameters pane to the right.



Notice that each servo has a Receiver Channel assigned in the Parameter/Value panel. These assigned channels should not to be confused with the Transmitter Channels that you’ll be programming later. You’ll want to check this list to make sure you’re editing the correct Output Channel when you edit the ‘Software Radio’ parameters below. You can hide the ‘Electronics’ servo list by clicking on the [-] box.

Now to start programming the switches, click on the [+] box next to ‘Software Radio’ to expand the list. Expand the list under ‘Output Channel 1’.



1. Edit the parameter’s panel, changing the value of the Low Rates (%) from ‘50’ to ‘70’. Then add two more ‘Inputs’ to Channel 1; first by right clicking on ‘Output Channel 1’ and selecting from the popup menu ‘Add – Add Complex Input Feed’, then doing the same clicking again to add the second input feed, again right clicking on ‘Output Channel 1’ and selecting from the popup menu ‘Add – Add Complex Input Feed’. The list should now look like this…



2. For Output Channel 1, select the second ‘Input’ listed, and edit the parameter panel as follows: Input Channel: Channel 8 ( 3-position switch), Logic: Add to other feeds. The panel should now look like this:



3. In the right panel, click on ‘<<Graph Points>>’ to expose the […] button, then click on the […] button to edit the graph. You want to edit the curve output points for all three inputs (-100, 0, 100), so they are: 34,0,-27.



4. Expand the second Input to show ‘Input Feed When’ and make sure the parameter is set as follows … Activated When: Always.



5. Now move to the third Input listed and populate the parameters to include… Input Channel: Channel 5 (Dual Rates), Logic: Add to other feeds. Ignore the Output Display (%) value for now.



6. In the right panel, click on ‘<<Graph Points>>’ to expose the […] button, then click on the […] button to edit the graph. You want to edit the curve output points for all three inputs (-100, 0, 100), so they are: 0,0,-80.



7. Finally, for the third Input of Radio Output Channel 1, expand this Input to edit the ‘Input Feed When’ parameters to be… Activate When: Conditional Channel above value #1, Conditional Channel: Input Channel 7 (Smoke), and Value 1 (%): 0.



That takes care of the Left Aileron on Radio Channel 1.

8. Now for the Right Aileron. … Do the exact same thing as for the Left Aileron, by adding two additional inputs to Radio Channel 5. Remember to change the Low Rates (%) to ‘70’, and populate the two new ‘Input’ and ‘Input Feed When’ parameters just as you did for Radio Channel 1, repeating steps 1-7 above, but this time for Radio Channel 5.



Next, move to the Flaps on Output Channel 6.



9. Add two simple input feeds by right clicking on ‘Output Channel 6’, by right clicking on ‘Output Channel 6’ and selecting ‘Add- Add Simple Input Feed’ from the popup menu.

10. Now for Output Channel 6, you have three Inputs. Expand the first Input to show the ‘Input Feed When’, then edit parameters to be… Activate When: Conditional Channel below value #1, Conditional Channel: Input Channel 7 (Smoke), and Value 1 (%): 0.



11. For the second Input, in the parameters pane, edit the parameters as follows… Input Channel: Input Channel 8 (3-position switch), Percent (%): 55, Reverse: Yes, Logic: Add to other feeds.



12. Expand this second Input to show the ‘Input Feed When’. Now verify the parameters to be… Activation When: Always.

13. For the third Input, set the parameters as follows…. Input Channel: Input Channel 7 (Smoke), Percent: 100, Reverse: No, Logic: Add to other feeds.



14. Expand the third Input and for the ‘Input Feed When’, edit parameters as follows…. Activation When: Conditional Channel above value #1, Conditional Channel: Input Channel 7 (Smoke), Value 1 (%): 0.



That takes care of the Flaps; now on to Elevator compensation (Output Channel 2), for when the Flaps are down.

15. Output Channel 2 already has two Inputs, one for the Input Channel 6 (Knob). So add just one ‘Complex Input Channel’ by right clicking on ‘Output Channel 2’ and selecting ‘Add – Add Complex Input Feed’ from the popup menu.

16. Next expand the second Input (yes the second, not the one just added) to show ‘Input Feed When’ and edit the parameters as follows… Activation When: Conditional Channel below value #1, Conditional Channel: Input Channel 7 (Smoke), value 1 (%): 0.



17. Select the third Input Channel ( the one you added earlier), and edit the parameters pane as follows…. Input Channel: Channel 6 (Knob), Logic: Add to other feeds.



18. Also edit the Curve ‘<<Graph Points>>’ parameters as follows… Output (%): 0, -11, -22.



19. Expand the third Input to show ‘Input Feed When’ and edit the parameters as follows… Activation When: Condition Channel above value #1, Condition Channel: Input Channel 7 (Smoke), Value 1 (%): 0.



20. Finally, adjust the Rudder Low Rates (%) compensation. Select ‘Output Channel 4’ and edit ‘Low Rates (%)’ parameter to change it from 100 to 60.



21. Save your work to file. From the File dropdown menu, select ‘Save’.

That’s it, you’re done. After some flight simulation time, you might want to make some changes to the above settings to see what the effects are. You might want to try adding additional up Aileron to the Crow setup, or try adding Elevator compensation to Crow.
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Old Aug 29, 2012, 08:08 AM
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Czech Republic, Olomouc
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How to fix tilt of the airplane?

It is long time ago. In spring, I enjoyed thermal flying with friends and was so high. Heigher and heigher. Advice was to go try to flight the opposite direction of the thermal wind pushes me. It was good advice, diamond was so high.

But with the black bad china servos something happened. The control of the airplane sudenly did not work and it catched spiral move down. It was hardly to see what exactly happened there in heigh though. So it was too late to do anything and was not prepared and or trained in this situation. Simply with the speed and broken aileron servo the diamond did not react. Only switched on flaps to slower the speed few meters above ground. But it did not help since the airplane rotated down with the heigh speed. Simply from so heigh it nose crashed with the speed. It was not nice view. Friends helped to collect all the pieces of the crashed diamond and went home then trying to find a way how to fix. It never was that bad crash as this was.

Then during the week or two repaired it. It was very hardly destroyed to a lot of pieces.

During the summer maidened fly it few times. The diamond can fly again. Observed that it is needed to use a lot of trims to be able to not the airplane tilt itself. Any advice how to tune diamond back without using a lot of aileron trims? The wings were also broken. Do you think that now each wing has different weight, which could cause the tilt? Any advices for tunning?
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Old Aug 29, 2012, 08:21 AM
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Sweden
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Hi Pavel! Sorry for your plane! Nice to hear that you could put it together again!
You must balance the the wing to same load. put load in the wingtip that goes up until they are balanced. I did put some led balls (4.5mm for air gun) in one of my wings already at start. I did drill a small hole 3mm and then pushed in the led until it was in balance. But probably you will have changes in wing profiles and everything now! She will probably never recover totally!

I have not been flying so much this summer due to lack of time. My D is not was she was either!... But still flying after 2.5years! Last saturday was a really nice day! I was out 2.5hours in almost perfect weather.

You are right about how to react on lift, turning opposit where she wants to go, because that is the lift that pushes her away. But I am also not so good on it. We have to practice.

yours
BG
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Old Aug 29, 2012, 08:44 AM
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Hi BG! Thanks. Will try that. It flyes perfectly with new silent servos, except the tilt behavior. During the summer I have build skywalker sirius FPV platform and enjoy FPV flights in the meantime! But would like to return to diamond occassionally. Will try to put there leads. I also use aileron trims in sirius airplane, so will try this method also to tune it without use of aileron trims there. Regards, Pavel

PS: You can see me on youtube channel flying there: http://www.youtube.com/user/pavel4n . Had very nice evening sirius airplane FPV flight on last Saturday with friends on airport, trying to chase their helicopter and acrobatic airplane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BG Bengtsson View Post
Hi Pavel! Sorry for your plane! Nice to hear that you could put it together again!
You must balance the the wing to same load. put load in the wingtip that goes up until they are balanced. I did put some led balls (4.5mm for air gun) in one of my wings already at start. I did drill a small hole 3mm and then pushed in the led until it was in balance. But probably you will have changes in wing profiles and everything now! She will probably never recover totally!

I have not been flying so much this summer due to lack of time. My D is not was she was either!... But still flying after 2.5years! Last saturday was a really nice day! I was out 2.5hours in almost perfect weather.

You are right about how to react on lift, turning opposit where she wants to go, because that is the lift that pushes her away. But I am also not so good on it. We have to practice.

yours
BG
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Last edited by pavn; Aug 29, 2012 at 09:28 AM.
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Old Aug 29, 2012, 09:11 PM
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It's also possible that when the wings were fixed, they weren't glued perfectly straight. One wing could angle up or down slightly, giving that wing more or less lift making it want to roll. If that's the case, you're probably out of luck.
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Old Aug 29, 2012, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TooSLow2Care View Post
Barry,
I run an external 5A BEC on 6v on my D2500. for a couple reasons.
1: if the ESC ever fry's, i'd like to dead stick my sailplane down safely. the couple of grams penalty is worth the insurance.
2: i've seen some of my little digital servos pull close to 1A at stall torque, so my general rule is #of servos x 1 = Peak Amp draw.

i also regularly use digital servos on all control surfaces & analog on flaps (that sit at idle for the majority of my flight)

cheers,
Brian
Hi Brian,

That's probably a good idea. Still haven't tested the 60A ESC, but did find the manufacturer in China that makes the servos which I tested in my earlier post.

What I found on the servo manufacturer's web site, was that they list the stall current at 830mA @6V for the digital servo.



One could expect that if the D2500 was pulling G's out of a steep dive, all four wing servos could reach stall current just trying to hold positions. The rudder and elevator servos, worse case, might only peak at half that current.

An inventory of the servo current loads for that kind of worst case scenario would be: (4x830mA) + (2x415mA) = 4.15A. Add another 150mA for the Rx electronics and your at 4.3amps. That's probably pushing the 60A ESC's internal BEC. Not sure, but it might be only a 3A rating.

I'm still sampling different servos. I've found an interesting servo from another China manufacturer (Wuxi Henge) that has digital servo (MD933) with current limiting driver electronics. Slightly higher torque with a stall current of 600mA.

The inexpensive digital MD933 looks to be of higher quality with metal gears, top ball bearing, and current limiting electronics. It is not a exact fit, but can be easily fitted after shaving off the mounting ears which aren't used on the D2500. More on that later.

Barry
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Old Aug 30, 2012, 11:11 PM
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i still live by an addage on tgese servos...

#of servos x 1 = peak/stall torque, amp draw. that give me an amperage for my BEC..
6 x 1Amp each = 6A total. so i run a 5-7.5Amp external BEC in my D2500

Brian
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Old Aug 30, 2012, 11:57 PM
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I've been using MG90S servos everywhere but the rudder. I can't seem to find a stall current rating for them anywhere, but so far so good. Has anyone actually overloaded their BEC yet? If so, does it just shut down until it cools off?
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