Espritmodel.com Telemetry Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Oct 29, 2009, 10:37 PM
Registered User
Bookstar75's Avatar
Joined Feb 2005
538 Posts
Question
Difference Between Spoilerons and Flaperons?

Hello,

Im not a newbie but I have a newbie question because I have never used this function before.
Im purchasing a hotliner and it is advised that I program spoilerons in order to slow it down fast enough.
Now I own a Futaba 6EXA radio and the only function I have are for Flaperons. It doesn't have a program function for Spoilerons.

So I am wondering what the difference between spoilerons and flaperons are? Can I still use flaperons to slow down the hotliner versus using spoilerons?

Thank you ;o)
Bookstar75 is offline Find More Posts by Bookstar75
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Oct 30, 2009, 12:13 AM
WARNING: May contain spam
Xpress..'s Avatar
Joined Oct 2007
20,920 Posts
Spoilerons and Flapperons are just opposite directions. They both use the ailerons, but Flapperons, while adding lift, deflect both ailerons down, and generally cause the plane to pitch up, but the nose to pitch down, so usually a little elevator is mixed in. Spoilerons do just about the opposite, and slow the plane down a bit better.

You will be wanting spoilerons
Xpress.. is online now Find More Posts by Xpress..
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2009, 12:56 AM
Registered User
Singapore
Joined Mar 2009
193 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpress.. View Post
Spoilerons and Flapperons are just opposite directions. They both use the ailerons, but Flapperons, while adding lift, deflect both ailerons down, and generally cause the plane to pitch up, but the nose to pitch down, so usually a little elevator is mixed in. Spoilerons do just about the opposite, and slow the plane down a bit better.

You will be wanting spoilerons
Pls allow me to ride on your thread bookstar75

I don't understand this: "but Flapperons, while adding lift, deflect both ailerons down, and generally cause the plane to pitch up, but the nose to pitch down". If the plane pitches up, how can the nose pitch down?

Thanks for helping.
jsec1992 is offline Find More Posts by jsec1992
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2009, 01:22 AM
WARNING: May contain spam
Xpress..'s Avatar
Joined Oct 2007
20,920 Posts
^The plane itself pitches UP, as in the plane will move up from the sudden increase of lift, but the nose will pitch down.

So you have a plane going up, but a nose that begins to point downward
Xpress.. is online now Find More Posts by Xpress..
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2009, 01:35 AM
Build it, don't buy it
foamnpacktape's Avatar
Calgary, AB, Canada
Joined Apr 2008
2,155 Posts
Just use the flaperon function on your radio, but instead of down have em go up.

foam
foamnpacktape is offline Find More Posts by foamnpacktape
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2009, 02:40 AM
Registered User
Bookstar75's Avatar
Joined Feb 2005
538 Posts
Bingo!!!! Will do!
Thank you all for your help!!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by foamnpacktape View Post
Just use the flaperon function on your radio, but instead of down have em go up.

foam
Bookstar75 is offline Find More Posts by Bookstar75
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2009, 03:26 AM
Registered User
perttime's Avatar
Tampere, Finland
Joined Nov 2004
4,177 Posts
To put the difference differently:
- both make the ailerons move in the same direction
- making them go down increases drag and lift
- making them go up increases drag and decreases lift

Big gliders often use both to get the plane down: "butterfly". Indoard parts of the ailerons go down and outboard parts go up.
perttime is offline Find More Posts by perttime
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2009, 03:29 AM
Old age is not for sissies
Azarr's Avatar
Dayton Intl, Ohio, United States
Joined Jan 2000
7,690 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpress.. View Post
^The plane itself pitches UP, as in the plane will move up from the sudden increase of lift, but the nose will pitch down.

So you have a plane going up, but a nose that begins to point downward
I've never seen that happen, normally the lift increases, the nose pitches up and down elevator is required to keep proper attitude.

Spoilers, on the other hand, "spoil" the lift and the plane tends to descend in more of a vertical manner. You'll sometimes see it used on 3D planes to help wing rock in a harrier or to decrease forward movement in an elevator.

Azarr
Azarr is offline Find More Posts by Azarr
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2009, 03:33 AM
Registered User
LI, New York, USA
Joined Mar 2003
23,928 Posts
Typically, during programming a flapperon function for spoilerons you will need to use negative numbers in the menu. That surprises many people.

I have many planes set up with flapperons where I can deflect up for spoilerons, or down for flapperons, according to my preference at the time. I use this on my Easy Glider, my Sky Runner and my XP-5 DL glider, just to name 3.

My experience is that flapperons, down, will slow the plane more effectively and allow you to land more slowly. Combine the downward deflection with some down elevator till the plane remains essentially level when you deploy the flapperons or it could "baloon up and stall.

Spoilerons work well when you want to get the plane down, either from height, or near the growd. Again you want to mix in some elevator to help keep the plane level when you deploy the spoilerons or it can tend to stall. On some planes that will be up elevator and some it will be down. In gusty conditions I use the spoilerons to "stick" the plane when the wind might want to lift it, just as I am landing.

Experiment with your elevator mix while you are up at least 50 feet so you can see what the plane will do while leaving yourself room to recover if it does something bad.

Flapperons increase the lift of the wing, allowing it to fly more slowly. They also increase the drag which slows the plane.

Spoilerons decrease the lift of the wing allowing it to decend more steeply without diving so you can lose height fast while maintaining a moderate air speed. A combination of spoilerons and up elevator will really slow the plane since it wants to climb but you have decreased the lift of the wing.

If you can assign the function to a slider or a dial, you may be able to have both. Or if you have them on a 3 way switch, you can deflect up or down as you see fit. Then you can see which you like better. Or you may find you like them both, but for different reasons to be used at different times.

On a hotliner you may also want use "snap flaps" in conjunction with flapperons. This would deflect both ailerons ( flapperons ) up with down elevator and down with up elevator. This allows you to make much tighter turns and loops. It can also allow you to make more square loops, or so I am told. It would be nice if this could be on a switch so you can turn the mix on and off, depending on how you want to use it.

Start with very very small deflections of the ailerons to see how it works, then build up during testing. You will probably only add a few MM or less than 1/4 inch of deflection but the effect can be dramatic at speed.

Not sure what mixes your radio has but I would expect it has these.

Flapperons can also help you fly your hotliner as a thermal glider. When in lift you can set up a "thermal" mix that drops the flapperons just a couple of MM making for a more undercambered wing, giving you more lift when in a thermal.
aeajr is offline Find More Posts by aeajr
Last edited by aeajr; Oct 30, 2009 at 03:46 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2009, 03:58 AM
Registered User
Singapore
Joined Mar 2009
193 Posts
Wow ... OK I'll need an armchair, a drink and some snacks to absorb all these. But thanks to all. Will approach you guys for more help if I remain lost ... I'm trying this on a Cloud Fly - first gotta get some servo extension wires ...
jsec1992 is offline Find More Posts by jsec1992
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2009, 05:31 AM
Air, Ground & Water
freechip's Avatar
Canada, ON, Rockland
Joined Aug 2008
23,102 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azarr View Post
I've never seen that happen, normally the lift increases, the nose pitches up and down elevator is required to keep proper attitude. Azarr
Then some would say you haven't seen much. I have flaperons programmed for my PKZ Cosair and when I trigger the flaps to go into flaperons (down deflection) the plane gains lift but because the where the main wing is position on the fuse and where the flaps are almost mid plane it cause the nose to nose down SO YES a little up elevator is needed to keep the plane level BUT now require less throttle to stay in the air and hence allowing you to land at slower speeds then normal.
freechip is offline Find More Posts by freechip
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2009, 06:32 AM
Mach .09 Super Achiever
Chophop's Avatar
Pleasant Valley Modelport
Joined Sep 2006
8,380 Posts
I would think flaperons would do a better job of slowing the plane down for landings and spoilerons will allow high speed descents. Spoilers are used on some one scale aircraft to descend from high altitude and maintain speed along with allowing engine rpm to remain set at cruise speed to prevent the motor from cooling. It's cold up there.
It seems to me that spoilers reduce the effective upper wing curve and make it appear more like a flat plate wing, but flaps add more effective curve to the upper part of the wing. Spoilers in that case should help with turbulence penetration over flaps in the same situation.
So now I think maybe start with spoilers to get down to pattern altitude fast then switch to flaps.
Lastly, my Cherokee pitches nose down with flaps and needs up elevator mixed with the flaps, it seems to be that way with low wing planes, the opposite of the high wing planes that need nose down trim when flaps are down.
I remember now. High wing planes with mid to low fuselage mounted tail surfaces will pitch UP with flaps because the downwash from the flaps pushes the tail down, and of course, the nose goes up. Most low wing planes do pitch nose down on flaps down because the tail is USUALLY out of the flap downwash.
T tail planes keep the Hstab out of the downwash and so a high wing T tail may need down trim on flaps down.

Ch
Chophop is online now Find More Posts by Chophop
Last edited by Chophop; Oct 30, 2009 at 06:45 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2009, 06:50 AM
Suspended Account
Joined Jul 2006
22,991 Posts
I guess I'm the only guy here who can't make his plane fly slower using spoilerons, or flaperons.

How much lower does the use of flaperons reduce the stall speeds on your planes?

Example: My plane has a stall speed of 15 mph. When I activate flaperons, what can I expect the new stall speed to be?

Chuck
NoFlyZone is offline Find More Posts by NoFlyZone
Reply With Quote  (Disabled)
Old Oct 30, 2009, 07:14 AM
Mach .09 Super Achiever
Chophop's Avatar
Pleasant Valley Modelport
Joined Sep 2006
8,380 Posts
I don't know what it did to the stall speed but they sure slow the plane down in a hurry. So I have been saving the decision to drop 'em for final, if I am too fast. I have ~ 75% span flaperons.

Ch
Chophop is online now Find More Posts by Chophop
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2009, 07:45 AM
fmw
Registered User
fmw's Avatar
Joined Jul 2009
1,955 Posts
Please help me understand what this term means in model aircraft. In real aircraft spoilers are devices on the wings that kill lift over a portion of the wing to help the plane descend. If you were to ralse one spoiler and not the other you would get roll control and that would be a spoileron. Flaps change the coefficient of the airfoil to allow the aircraft to fly more slowly without stalling. To me a flaperon would be using ailerons as flaps by moving them both downward instead of in opposite directions as they would normally operate to provide roll control.

I'm getting the impression that in modeling, spoileron means something else. Most models don't have spoilers so I'm assuming that spoilerons are backward flaperons. In other words the ailerons are both moved upward together. Is that right? Is it meant to be a sort of air brake?
fmw is offline Find More Posts by fmw
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion Difference between the Hacker ESC's? flyboy320 Power Systems 0 Oct 29, 2009 05:48 PM
Discussion whats difference between mode 1 and mode 2? ccflier Radios 19 Oct 26, 2009 02:53 AM
Discussion The difference between Bush and Obama...LTUP Eljimb0 Life, The Universe, and Politics 157 Oct 16, 2009 08:35 AM
Question What's the difference between trailing edge and aileron stock? flatland2d The Builders Workshop 5 Oct 05, 2009 08:52 PM
Discussion Parkzone T-28 Flaperons / Spoilerons Suggestions? puma1824 Electric Warbirds 2 Sep 02, 2009 08:22 PM