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Old Oct 28, 2009, 01:06 PM
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Diolen... a cheap kevlar alternative... anyone using it?

Hey guys

I went to my local glassing supplier today to grab a load of 200g glass for some big air layups and asked whether they had any carbon or kevlar offcuts I could have on the cheap (they normally got something kicking around), no carbon or kevlar but they were selling some Diolen off cheap.

Apparently it has similar properties to kevlar but not quite as light?

I grabbed a couple of metres at £3pm (kevlar is £20!) to give it a go... but I'm not entirely sure where to use it?

Leading edge?

As one of the skin layers (better tensile strength than glass)?

Anyone else used or using this stuff?

Cheers

Steve
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Old Oct 28, 2009, 04:21 PM
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zylon is what I have used .I think it is also called diolen. I used if you hinges as you would kevlar
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Old Oct 29, 2009, 02:57 AM
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Doing a quick search on google Zylon looks like a different material, Diolen is polyester based I think.

Out of interest, what weight was it that you used for hinging?

I also posted this over on a UK forum and one chap found this interesting description of Diolen...

Diolen – 265g sq/mt - 1 Linear mt - 950 mm wide.
Diolen Polyester Fibre is a low density (1.3g/cm3), high tenacity fibre which has good impact characteristics due to it's very high elongation and break, however, the young modulus is very low. It is used in applications where high stiffness is not a requirement, but where low weight, high impact resistance and high abrasion resistance is important.

Diolen is commonly used in the manufacture of Canoes and Kayak's and many more applications where high impact strength is important.
We have used Diolen between layers of chopped strand matting to achieve a rigid structure which has very high impact resistance, as an example Diolen has been incorporated in the manufacture of lifesaving equipment, in one application 265g Diolen is sandwiched between chopped strand matting, this specification allowed the container to be dropped from a height of 36 mt with a packed weight of approximately 200kg without any punctures or critical damage to the shell, what tends to happen is the glass fibre will break, but the Diolen will absorb this impact and more or less spring back into shape. It is essential it is sandwiched between layers of glassfibre matting for maximum strength, or effectively laid on the reverse of a laminate, which is usually apparent in canoe/kayak construction.



After reading this I'll defo be bew trying it out in my next wing.

With 80 views and no replies I'm guessing that no one else has heard of this stuff?

cheers

Steve
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Old Oct 29, 2009, 05:00 AM
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Diolen is cosmetic, not structural.
I've tryed this stuff for DLG pods and find it not good. It won't soak/hold epoxy the same way as fiberglass, carbon or kevlar. Yes it's strong by itself, but lose epoxy with easy.
So parts will be pretty just up to first impact.
Very thick layup with multilayers of FG may prevent that but again it's quite heavy already.
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Old Oct 29, 2009, 05:40 AM
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So why are canoes built out of Diolen as a cheaper kevlar alternative?

Canoes get quite a beating, if it was purely a cosmetic material they wouldnt last very long?

I am looking to laminate it in a glass lay-up, flying slope and DS weight isnt really an issue, infact its mostly good

I'll bag a test piece tonight if I've got time.

Thanks for the info, I really hope you're not entirely right and I can find a use for it.

cheers

Steve
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Old Oct 29, 2009, 05:46 AM
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http://www.solarcomposites.com/compo...mid.html#zylon

i used the 4 oz ,,great hinge material
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Old Oct 29, 2009, 05:57 AM
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the 200g/7oz stuff I have is a little heavy for hinges I guess


Some more reading RE Diolen being used in canoes/kayaks...

this is taken from a manufactures website... check the vac 2 options.

Constructions
All WWR kayaks are supplied with airbags (front and rear) and seats. Inside seams are 2” diolen tape and coloured outside seams are 1” glass tape (unless stated otherwise).

Vac 1:
· Vac bag construction
· Polyester resin
· Glass and Diolen cloth
· Spheretex Reinforcement
· Glassfibre seat

The use of Polyester resin minimises cost and is suitable for deep water/club/fitness use. A polyester resin construction is not as robust as an Epoxy resin construction and so we feel this construction is not suitable for prolonged use on moving water.

Vac 2:
· Vac bag construction
· Epoxy resin
· Glass and Diolen fabric
· Kevlar/Carbon fibre reinforcing patches
· Spheretex Reinforcement
· Glassfibre seat

The combination of Epoxy resin and Diolen give a very tough boat. This hull will take some serious stick; we recommend this as the best combination of value for money versus robustness.

Premier:
· Vac bag construction
· Epoxy resin
· Kevlar/Carbon and Diolen fabric
· Kevlar/Carbon fibre reinforcing patches
· Spheretex Reinforcement
· 2” Kevlar inside seam, 1” Kevlar outside seam
· Lightweight Kevlar/Carbon seat, cockpit rim and footplate

This gives an ultra lightweight and rigid construction, for an instantly responsive kayak on the water. Though this boat is strong and rigid it demands a little more care and attention than the Diolen construction.
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Old Oct 29, 2009, 06:25 AM
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mY guess is that by the time you get enough resin it will be way heavy . what others call lite is still to heavy SL
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Old Oct 29, 2009, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thepasty View Post
I'll bag a test piece tonight if I've got time.
Steve
It will be best for understanding. And report please.
It's really a CHEAP ALTERNATIVE
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Old Oct 29, 2009, 08:02 AM
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So where should I be testing this stuff?

Leading Edge?

run a test piece laminated with glass over a foam core?

Should be good for opposed torsional wing spars?

and of cause I'll report back my findings
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Old Oct 29, 2009, 08:28 AM
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Anything you want.
One more from memory. Diolen are absolutely unsandable. Let say I prefer to sand Kevlar but not Diolen.

It's very difficult for trimming and sanding when used on edges because of
losing epoxy.
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Old Oct 29, 2009, 08:37 AM
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I'll layup a fin, try it on the LE and laminate it under glass to see how it goes., I'll go a lght layer of glass over the LE too, to save any sanding issues
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Old Oct 30, 2009, 04:20 AM
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I layed up a bit of foam wing section last night, using diolen rapped around the LE running back to the TE and the added 160g glass top and bottom, this way I can see what the LE is like, whether it might hinge at the TE and whether its any good when laminated with glass.

I found it wet out ok once I'd warmed the resin so that it was nice and runny, I didnt find this stuff too hard to cut, a pair of my unmodified normal scissors went through it very neatly... sanding will be interesting tho ... avoid at all cost
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Old Jan 24, 2010, 07:20 AM
Stuart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thepasty View Post
With 80 views and no replies I'm guessing that no one else has heard of this stuff?
I have.

Back in the early 70s when the only way for a student to afford their own white water kayak was to build one yourself.

I used to use diolen in place of the glass fibre mat, it made the kayak MUCH more resilaint against rock damgage. Most kayaks then were a layer of chopped strand mat and a layer of woven roving.

If you hit a big enough rock in a pure glass layup kayak, then the resin and glass would fracture, and you had a hole that would leak.

Diloen whilst not as stiff as the glass, was very difficult to tear, so if you hit that same rock, the resin would break up but the diolen would not. You had a weak spot but no serious hole to let in water.

Kevlar fabric came along later, was as tough and more ridgid, but a lot more expensive and harder to work with too.
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Old Jan 24, 2010, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srnet View Post
I have.

Back in the early 70s when the only way for a student to afford their own white water kayak was to build one yourself.

I used to use diolen in place of the glass fibre mat, it made the kayak MUCH more resilaint against rock damgage. Most kayaks then were a layer of chopped strand mat and a layer of woven roving.

If you hit a big enough rock in a pure glass layup kayak, then the resin and glass would fracture, and you had a hole that would leak.

Diloen whilst not as stiff as the glass, was very difficult to tear, so if you hit that same rock, the resin would break up but the diolen would not. You had a weak spot but no serious hole to let in water.

Kevlar fabric came along later, was as tough and more ridgid, but a lot more expensive and harder to work with too.
How would kevlar and Diloen compare in weight once soaked with resin.Im sure that would be a facter as well for portage`s and such??
Kevlar can be thirsty but not much worse than glass for example

thx
SL
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