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Old Nov 21, 2012, 10:58 PM
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HELP! Wing Gluing Advice For v1?

I sure would like some advice on how to glue the nacelle pods to the wings on my version 1 build without making a mess. I would normally use epoxy on that type of joint, but I can see that would likely end up in a smeared mess. I get that I need to remove the paint and scuff the glue areas, but what type of glue should I use, and how do I apply it without getting it smeared all over the wing just outboard of the nacelle joint when I slide the nacelle in? Is squirting CA in the seam good enough?
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 11:28 PM
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subsonic's Avatar
Sydney, Australia
Joined Jan 2007
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I used CA for mine and it worked perfectly well. No need to rough anything up, the CA glues through the paint. If you're not careful about using too much it might dribble out the other side so take it easy. You only really need a smidge to stop the parts moving against each other. It's not a "structural" joint at the pods.
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 01:25 AM
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WestTexasKing's Avatar
Monahans TX
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You can use CA, which is what I used as well (thick CA doesn't run quite as easily).
On the other hand, try a hot glue gun and run it along the inside of the joint, like you were welding two pieces of steel together.
I've pretty much done away with CA on foamies, as the hot glue flexes with the foam as opposed to epoxy and CA...and since they don't flex, they crack and severely weaken the joint.
Another good thing about hot glue is that you can remove it relatively easy if it gets on something you don't want it on, or melt it to conform to the seam like you'd do with caulk with nothing more than an empty hot glue gun.
They're like, $10 at the most, so get two of them.
You want the kind with the coating on the tip for the gluing, and the empty one should have a bare metal tip.
The bare metal can be used to smooth out lumps, to heat the glue so you can scoop it off with a spoon or knife, and to get rid of the stringy mess they almost always leave behind.
The glue can also be used to fill in empty spots as ballast or to strengthen a weak area and still be flexible.

Only other tip I have is to make sure the glue stays hot for a few seconds after putting the components together, otherwise it doesn't have a very strong bond.
So, if you're using a thin coating to adhere the nacelle to the wing, try instead to form a fillet that will take longer to cool on the side of it.
If you can't, say you're gluing a broken tail boom back together and you have to spread it out over the entire boom...then leave the gun sitting for a while to build up more heat.
Apply the glue liberally to the broken joint and quickly hold the other end to it, then wait for it to cool.
There will probably be quite a bit of glue squeezed out, but that's ok...use the other gun or a hobby knife to get rid of it (sometimes you can just peel it off while it's still cooling down).

So far, all of the planes I've built with hot glue have held up without fault, some of the planes I've used CA on lose their bond after lots of flight time.
You might want to practice on some junk foam to get an idea of what I've been talking about, it's really easy to use but it's a bit different than epoxy or CA.

Oh, try to find the really long glue sticks, it really sucks when you're almost done gluing, run out, and try to reload and finish gluing before the first bit of glue cools off!
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 08:35 PM
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Thanks for the suggestions. I really like the idea of the hot glue, but my hot glue skills are such that I only use hot glue in internal areas, and other places it won't show. I think I'll get a second glue gun and experiment with your smoothing technique, King, but I'm too impatient to get my plane flying to stop and develop a new skill, though. This time around I'll use the CA, and slop some epoxy on the center wing joint and the carbon fiber rod I'm putting in.
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Old Nov 24, 2012, 12:30 AM
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Monahans TX
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By all means, that's how I built my V1 and in that particular area the CA held just fine.
The hard part was trying to keep the seam completely flush and in place while the CA dried.
Needless to say, I used way too much and it ran all over the place LOL
CA is still my go-to glue for certain tasks, like CF reinforcements where you need it to wick all the way around the CF to get a good bond.
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 09:24 AM
Yes it was Abby Normal
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Got to fly a little bit this week end at our local R/C field,

What a neat plane to fly.....bounces around a little bit in winds above 10mph....easy to take off and very easy to land on grass. I am now a little more confident to loop and roll, hard bank (Bat Bank), dive and glide without worrying too much about melting motor mounts and burning up motors. Post flight inspections, touch and smell test, of the motors are clear of issues providing a hint of normal flight wear and tear. However I do NOT fly back to back sorties.....I fly another plane or give it at least 20 minutes between flights.

Lots of comments from the pitts area....some fellas said they had a V1 but did not replace it after selling or crashing it....The landing gear of the V1 was the only complaint against it.

I may try clear Silicone rather than CA, Epoxie or hot glue on my V2 fuselages....as they are a little sloppy on the wing. Not sure how much this is effecting flight...but I am thinking over time it will start to get sloppier or more loose....(Loosy?)

Anyway V2 landing gear is holding up just fine....although I refrain from taxi-ing on the grass runway.....trying to protect and prolong the nose gear by operating only for take off and landings. I have mixed out the nose gear from rudder movement when it is retracted via my DX6i. Really happy with the plane....one of my favorites to fly every time. In fact I have another P-38 V2 ready to build if I totally crash this one out of operation.....LOL. I may build up my unboxed V1 and hand toss it just for grins.

TwistedGrin
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 09:53 AM
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USA, TX, Copperas Cove
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Nice report TG! I can't wait for dad to get his out and fly again
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Old Nov 26, 2012, 02:55 PM
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Monahans TX
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Twisted, you have the V2 from Killerplanes with the CF reinforcements, and it still wiggles around?
I'd say that if you don't intend on disassembling for transport, use hot glue.
It's the least permanent of them all, so if you have to replace anything you can probably manage to ham fist it apart LOL

I wouldn't be too worried about higher winds...I've had mine up in 20mph+ winds, rougher than burlap underwear, and it was still pretty docile.
The props audibly change phase due to wind shear, the tail does a little jig, and the wings flap like a buzzard, but it was always eager to fly again.
In fact, I've flown the V1 nearly continuous for 2hrs, switching and charging batteries, until my wingman (read:wife) had enough of the silliness and wanted to go eat...which is a good thing because I would've kept on going until it was dark

Think I need to get another one, I miss the old warhorse...
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 09:06 AM
Yes it was Abby Normal
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[QUOTE=WestTexasKing;23368905]Twisted, you have the V2 from Killerplanes with the CF reinforcements, and it still wiggles around?
I'd say that if you don't intend on disassembling for transport, use hot glue.
It's the least permanent of them all, so if you have to replace anything you can probably manage to ham fist it apart LOL

I wouldn't be too worried about higher winds...I've had mine up in 20mph+ winds, rougher than burlap underwear, and it was still pretty docile.
The props audibly change phase due to wind shear, the tail does a little jig, and the wings flap like a buzzard, but it was always eager to fly again.QUOTE]

WOW WTK,
Good to hear it can eat up the heavy winds...I can imagine hearing the props screaming ....LOL Excellent to hear you could fly those motors for so long (YA!!!). I was so distraught when I burnt my motors and the motor mounts. That left a bad smell in my nose and made me paranoid to fly the plane very hard.

Yup the Killer Planes fuselages, center cockpit pod, wing, tail and stabilizers are all carbon fiber rodded, nice and stiff....but that makes no difference on the fuselages (wing saddle) where there is no additional means of securing them to the wing by the two screws alone on each. This is were the V2 is still loosy on the bench. I will definately be working on each wing saddle to firm this up....perhaps the hot glue as you suggest.

Best Regards,
TwistedGrin
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 10:52 AM
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United States, NJ, Hillsborough Township
Joined Sep 2011
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If this had been in stock in US Warehouse that one hour of free shipping would have brought me one. Now I guess the reinforced Killerplanes version goes on the list for the wife to evaluate. I must own a P-38 at some point, either this one or the FMS one once V2 comes out.

Or swipe Twisted's V1 and hand launch all day
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 09:26 PM
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Monahans TX
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The motors did get pretty warm, cool enough to touch for a few seconds, uncomfortable to hold indefinitely.
I thought they might have gotten too hot, but there weren't any signs of deterioration and didn't get any hotter either so I wasn't worried about it.
No idea how the V2 handles the heat though...

I saw on the durafly DH.88 thread that a guy epoxied a sheet of basswood and installed blind nuts/washers on every foam/foam screw attachment point, so you could really torque them down without deforming the foam.
If you could do something similar with the P38, you might be able to give it some real tension to keep the wing/boom attach points solid without compressing the foam.
Might even consider building up the saddle with some hot glue or similar (without actually gluing together), so there's positive contact all the way around.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 08:43 AM
Yes it was Abby Normal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestTexasKing View Post
Might even consider building up the saddle with some hot glue or similar (without actually gluing together), so there's positive contact all the way around.
Aye WTK,

I may do the exact same trick as you guided me through on the wing saddle of the mighty HK sttiP. However this will be more challenging since the two fuselages slide over the wing instead of bolting on directly down onto the wing saddle as our beloved little 33inch sttiP.

I do think now..... this is where "the wigglies" could be comming from or at least exaggerated in heavy winds. If left alone for too long....it can't be good.

I might have a chance to work on this plane before the week-end....if I can stand not to fly it and give it hell-------LOL

TwistedGrin
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 09:34 AM
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USA, NJ, Red Bank
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Hey Twisted.....Glad you're having fun with the V-2 P-38.....I run it stock except for PZ early warbird 10 X 8 propellers and 2 1/4 Du-Bro spinners. Conventional direction on both motors. A single 3s 2200 -2350 battery up front and it is super. Hand launch as I removed the gear and glued the doors shut. A few mods to the horizontal stab for stiffening with a thin 1 inch wide basswood strip....pinned the vertical stabilizers.....and ran that same 1 inch wide 1/16th basswood on the underside of the wings from the nacelles out. Great sound and performance from the prop set-up........Yes.....it gets tossed around a little in those winds as you mentioned but, very managable......One of my favorites........Steve
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 09:25 PM
Yes it was Abby Normal
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Originally Posted by eggsplurt View Post
Hey Twisted.....Glad you're having fun with the V-2 P-38.....I run it stock except for PZ early warbird 10 X 8 propellers and 2 1/4 Du-Bro spinners. Conventional direction on both motors. A single 3s 2200 -2350 battery up front and it is super. Hand launch as I removed the gear and glued the doors shut. A few mods to the horizontal stab for stiffening with a thin 1 inch wide basswood strip....pinned the vertical stabilizers.....and ran that same 1 inch wide 1/16th basswood on the underside of the wings from the nacelles out. Great sound and performance from the prop set-up........Yes.....it gets tossed around a little in those winds as you mentioned but, very managable......One of my favorites........Steve
Sounds cool EggsPlurt...any chance you could post some photo's of your set up....and just for grins did you deploy any tape on the bottom of your fuselages? Might help keep the rash down some....it is a cool bird aint it!!

TwistedGrin
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 06:23 AM
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I have the luxury of flying at a sod farm here in N.J.....I can get a Piper Cherokee in and out of there......so, with some added fashioned Coke bottle plastic, etc. to the center section and under the nacelles, the underside stays perfect.......I'll get some pics.....Steve
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