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Old May 05, 2012, 01:12 PM
Always Fly 2 Mistakes High!
RGS2010's Avatar
Houston, Texas
Joined Mar 2010
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[QUOTEso you can see why more often then not I take out a glider, I would rather spend more time flying then charging plus the glider copes better with winds[/QUOTE]

nope...I'll take a warbirds every time! It's not the quantity of time, it's the quality.
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Old May 05, 2012, 04:05 PM
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WestTexasKing's Avatar
Monahans TX
Joined Sep 2010
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<tangent>
Hey Nigel, that minimoa sure is a pretty bird!
It's been a while since I've flown mine, but I don't remember breaking over an hour with it (I did break the whole airplane though, which is why I haven't flown it in a while )
You'd think out in the desert the thermals would be all over the place, but they're more like giant high powered thermals spread far apart.
Most flights you never get close enough to one to do any good.
I managed to get into a big one and lost her for about 8 minutes....hopped into the truck and drove for 3.5 miles before I could get signal again.
The altimeter registered 14,600ft when I finally got it down.

Either way, I think I have more fun in 5min flying warbirds than 30min flying the mini.
There's a point about 15-20min in where you just want to fly aerobatics instead of circles so far up that you can barely see the glider.
For me, there's a time and place for the minimoa, and that's when it's a calm day and the sky is looking beautiful with layers of clouds and a reddish tint from the sunrise or sunset set to a backdrop of purple hued mountains off in the distance.
I can appreciate the graceful flights of a classic glider when there's something for reference behind it instead of clear blue skies.
If I lived around some rolling green hills that I could slope soar on, I probably would have gotten much more enjoyment out of it.
</tangent>

Quote:
But you cant reverse a sevoless retract like that!
So, are you saying that a signal reverser won't work on a servoless retract?
I thought they received an up or down signal from the RX and then extended or retracted accordingly?
I know they're not set up like a servo, they take a signal, go to their end travel, then wait for a signal to travel the opposite way...you can't stop the gear halfway and hold it there.

Common sense says that if you have one gear moving opposite of the others, you can use a spare channel in the RX and slave it to work opposite of the others.
If that works, then shouldn't a signal reverser do the same?
That's all you're doing with the TX mix...reversing the signal, right?

Maybe I just misread your post and you meant that you can't reverse the wires on the servoless retract motor.
I think I've heard that before, since the endpoint micro switches have to correspond with the movement of the gear, and to fix that you need to swap those wires too.
If I understand correctly:
The up switch corresponds with up motor rotation, so if you reverse that to down motor rotation, the circuit board thinks the gear hasn't reached that endpoint and continues to power the motor...but the gear are locked down and no matter how much the board powers the motor it won't get any closer to the up switch.
However, if you can swap the wires on the switches (swapping up switch to down switch), then the circuit board and the gear would function just as it should only opposite of the original travel.
Does that sound right?
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Old May 06, 2012, 07:13 AM
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yorkshire UK
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Right reversing a servoless retract by swapping wires is is what I meant and its not easily done because of switches for end points which are built onto board!
A servo reverser would work just fine though!
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Old May 06, 2012, 07:29 AM
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yorkshire UK
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Regarding the glider vs warbirds statement, where I fly winds are nearly always turbulent and though I can and do fly warbirds in these conditions they just look a bit silly getting tossed around all over the place where as with a glider I can use the turbulence to indicate lift or at least still look like a proper glider doing it!
When the weather is calmish I like both.
Where I fly the thermals are mostly small and challenging both to find and to stay in with the occational boomer and that is what keeps me interested where as with normal powered planes I'm afraid I get bored now after 5 mins which is a shame cause I have about 30 panes all told but I do change my favourites from time to time and may well get back more into war birds again....maybe I need to sort out a bomb drop to keep things interesting???!!!???

My minimoa flew for 1hr and 15 mins on one battery this morning and I flew my little hlg "bug" for an hour thowing and catching and managed a few 3 min flights, a 5 mins and a 8 min which was really fun--a dlg is really tempting me now but my wife will divorce me if I get another plane!

A common misconception regarding thermals is that you get in hot places, thermals usually occur as different things are heating up ie dark surfaces will heat up faster then light surfaces and so the air over the dark places gets warm and rises and there is your lift which is then blown along by the winds in bubbles! once everything has warmed up to same temp no more thermals will form.
So its the difference in temp that produces thermals not just the heat and I have found some really good thermals in cold weather as well as in hot weather but 10:30 to 11 am is always the best time to find them just in case anyone want to try to thermal their P38 lmfao, now there is a challenge!
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Old May 06, 2012, 03:55 PM
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United States, CA, Los Angeles
Joined Jan 2012
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Really want a P38 at some point. Been looking at the Banana Hobby videos of the V2 versions. I have not read this entire long thread. Could someone please summarize? This plane is worth the two bills? Stock servos of the V2 any good? Dual ESCs are adequate or need upgrading (or at least a separate BEC)?

And finally, the retracts? Good or get ready for a let-down?
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Old May 06, 2012, 07:30 PM
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Monahans TX
Joined Sep 2010
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You'll find that the extra money for the V2 is worth it, though the kit is still going to be a better buy.

Servos on both are about the same quality as most foamies come with, acceptable for most but some have QC issues.
Never had issues with the servos unless you count clevis failures (probably damaged from belly landing).
I wouldn't worry about servos crapping out on you, but if you're a stickler for quality and find yourself replacing servos on ARF/RTF foamies, might think about buying the kit instead.

ESC issues are mostly failure-free, with a rare case of improperly programmed functions out of the factory (easily reprogrammed if need be).
A separate BEC is probably a good idea, there's a ton of servos on the P38.
My V1 never had issues with the stock ESC setup...it seemed to be plenty adequate for the servo draw, but I wasn't running retracts either.

Motors on the V2 are significantly better than the V1, the older motors had a thin prop shaft that was easily bent.
Installing the prop/spinner arrangement is a little troublesome to figure out, but works fine when it's put together correctly.

The V1 was plagued with LG issues, they're so bad that most people rip them out immediately and turn it into a belly lander.
The V2 gear is much more promising, but a few still report issues with the servoless retracts and replace them with Eflite retracts.

Some other tips:
-If you decide to make it a belly lander, tape up the gear doors and coat the underside of the gondola and nacelles with packing tape.
-Reinforce the lower vertical stab or build it to break away on landing.
-Cutting a small access hatch underneath the cockpit, following the panel lines as a template, will prevent a lot of frustration when wiring up the servos to the RX, it can be taped or glued back on and you'd never notice it was there.
Trust me, you'll want to do this when you see the rat's nest forming in there.
The hatch could even be hinged and used as a non-scale bomb drop for a little extra fun.
-Battery hatch was always flying off mine, the magnets weren't strong enough.
I recommend using a latch or install some extra heavy duty magnets.
-Cutting out a little foam from the battery compartment will allow you to install a 3300mah battery, and it flies fine with it too (8-10min flight times, vertical performance is the only aspect it affects).
-Change out the silly jet jockey pilot for one that's authentic.
-Full throws on all surfaces are still quite manageable, though it tends to snap to the right with full elevator deflection while slow.
-Differential thrust is a great idea for any twin, this one is no different and it'll increase your flight envelope along with taxiing.
-Hobby Lobby sells adjustable pitch props that are a direct replacement for these (at least they were on the V1), gives you a wider range of flight performance.
-Upgrading from 3S to 4S will give you ballistic performance and the motors/ESC's will handle it as long as you're not always at full throttle.
Several members have already successfully used 4S without any issue on both the V1 and V2.
-Scale flaps are possible with enough creativity (the FMS P38 already has flaps, but would take much more effort to make them look scale).
-Adding Cf rods to the tail booms will strengthen the tail and reduce the tendency to wag during flight.
Thin wire can be used in place of the FS antenna array to further stiffen the tail section as well.
-Dual batteries/RX's in each nacelle will eliminate a lot of excess wiring, add some redundancy, and simplify things considerably, not to mention the gondola will be empty for any number of things like a bomb bay, FPV stuff, onboard camera, airsoft cannon, etc.

There's a lot of other tips I've learned about the JPower, along with all of the other members on this thread, that'll get your P38 cooking along if you decide to buy one!

**BTW, post #5,000...that's got to be some kind of record!
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Old May 06, 2012, 08:47 PM
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Kurt's Avatar
United States, TX, Houston
Joined Sep 2003
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well it was a few hours of fiddly work but the V2 nose gear is now mounted in the V1. Used various sizes of basswood blocks and ply, similar to how the V2 kit had it mounted.
Just had to slice a channel all the way through the foam, then made up a tool with a piece of aluminum and a screw that I could hold in a pair of pliers, heat up with a MAP torch, and melt down into the battery compartment to inset the gear mounting plate. Like playing a game of Operation :P
The front should be sitting ~1/2 higher than the rear now, even with the slightly large rear tires.
Now just need to install the servo reverser when it arrives so the front matches the rear gear.
Also found 1-3/4" Dubro foam wheels at the LHS that more closely match the scale of the original rear tires.
Next weekend, weather permitting, she should be taking flight!
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Old May 07, 2012, 10:49 AM
Always Fly 2 Mistakes High!
RGS2010's Avatar
Houston, Texas
Joined Mar 2010
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Nice work Kurt.

Here is my almost finished V1:

I just have to put on the retract doors, sand the fiberglass spar down on the horiz stab that I put in for rigidity, and covering up wires in the channel between booms. All control surfaces work fine. The only weak spot is the rudders...both of them are so weak they are already cracking where they move over the elevator in that slot. I'm going to put some pieces of toothpick in there after I make a little slit. It's also weak where the tail assembly joins the boom. I did a little reinforcement there with toothpicks epoxied in before I glued it on.

Russ

P.S. Notice how one of the elevator servos was reversed and I had to put the servo control horn on opposite side and cross over the rudder control rod. It's not ideal but it works fine. Otherwise I would have had to dig out the servo and wires and wing and it would be a nightmare. I hope these Turnigy MG servos last a long time 'cos diggin em out of this plane would be fatal for the plane, Im afraid.
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Old May 07, 2012, 03:29 PM
If it's to be, it's up to me.
subsonic's Avatar
Sydney, Australia
Joined Jan 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGS2010 View Post
Nice work Kurt.

Here is my almost finished V1:

Russ

P.S. Notice how one of the elevator servos was reversed and I had to put the servo control horn on opposite side and cross over the rudder control rod. It's not ideal but it works fine. Otherwise I would have had to dig out the servo and wires and wing and it would be a nightmare. I hope these Turnigy MG servos last a long time 'cos diggin em out of this plane would be fatal for the plane, Im afraid.
One of the elevator servos is supposed to be reversed. In the V1 the rudder servos are in the rear hole with the horns on the inside of the rudders, and the elevator servos are in the front hole with the horns on the bottom. This way, a reversed servo is in an elevator position, and it operates fine. Have a look at the manual again.

I'm sure your method will work though, if there's no binding and you get enough / equal throws both sides of neutral.

Sub.
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Old May 07, 2012, 03:50 PM
Always Fly 2 Mistakes High!
RGS2010's Avatar
Houston, Texas
Joined Mar 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subsonic View Post
In the V1 the rudder servos are in the front hole with the horns on the inside of the rudders, and the elevator servos are in the front hole with the horns on the bottom. This way, a reversed servo is in an elevator position, and it operates fine. Have a look at the manual again.

I'm sure your method will work though, if there's no binding and you get enough / equal throws both sides of neutral.

Sub.
Thanks Sub!

Manual? There is a stinking manual?

Thanks for the info and yes it works well after massaging the clevises, etc. No binding. Also, the rudder servo control rods weren't long enough, strangely, and I had to make my own.

Will let you know if it flies.
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Old May 07, 2012, 05:37 PM
If it's to be, it's up to me.
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Joined Jan 2007
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Pictures tell a thousand words, symetrical both sides:

Good luck on the maiden!

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Old May 07, 2012, 06:29 PM
Always Fly 2 Mistakes High!
RGS2010's Avatar
Houston, Texas
Joined Mar 2010
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That's the way I set it up originally but one part of the elevator was being pushed up while other was pulling down.... U can't agine how fast I unplugged that battery wire.
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Old May 07, 2012, 07:58 PM
If it's to be, it's up to me.
subsonic's Avatar
Sydney, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGS2010 View Post
That's the way I set it up originally but one part of the elevator was being pushed up while other was pulling down.... U can't agine how fast I unplugged that battery wire.
Yes, in order for it to work as it does in the photos, one of the elevator servos needs to be reversed. Mine came with a reversed servo, so it can still work on a Y lead. Looks like you have all "standard" servos in yours.

cheers,
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Old May 07, 2012, 08:08 PM
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Kurt's Avatar
United States, TX, Houston
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subsonic View Post
Pictures tell a thousand words, symetrical both sides:

Good luck on the maiden!

? in your first pic, how would the rudder be able to move for a left turn? Sure looks like either way the servo moves you're going right ....

I'm out of town right now, but pretty sure the links on mine cross i.e. the 'forward' servo goes to the rudder, rear-ward one is elevator.
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Old May 07, 2012, 09:26 PM
If it's to be, it's up to me.
subsonic's Avatar
Sydney, Australia
Joined Jan 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt View Post
? in your first pic, how would the rudder be able to move for a left turn? Sure looks like either way the servo moves you're going right ....
Heh, that's hobbyking's build for you. My servo horns are at 90 when at neutral

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt View Post
I'm out of town right now, but pretty sure the links on mine cross i.e. the 'forward' servo goes to the rudder, rear-ward one is elevator.
Yours is different to mine then. My rear servos are for the rudders, and the forward servos are for the elevator. One of the forward (elevator) servos is reversed internally, so that the rod can be on the inside of the boom, just like in the HK pic.
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