HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Oct 18, 2009, 03:16 PM
Registered User
Billymac's Avatar
Albq, NM
Joined Sep 2005
619 Posts
Discussion
Ail to Rud Mixes on landing/ takeoff

Gents,

Was wondering about using ail to rudd mixes on take-off and landing.
Seems I remember someone telling me never to use the mixes due to this causing an inadvertant yawing situation while leveling the wings during takeoff. So I never did and still don't. Seems I've had pretty good success with this set-up for a number of years.

On landing approach I normally turn the mix off and come in with out any problem. When I didn't turn off the mix and landed; the Pilatus then made a hard turn while I was trying to keep the wings level. I can only attribute that to the mix..

I may need to rethink my way of doing things, so any input is good.

Question is: what do you guys do and why??


Thanks

Bill
Billymac is offline Find More Posts by Billymac
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Oct 18, 2009, 03:22 PM
SoarScale
United States, WI, Wind Lake
Joined Nov 2004
814 Posts
Bill, real simple for me. I never use aileron/rudder mixing - period. Ever!

It is always my advice to all new flyers to eliminate the aileron/rudder mixer from their flying practices. It leads to better control and authority of the aircraft in all flight patterns in my opinion.

Elevator to spoiler and elevator to flap is a different matter and I will always use mixers for these to aid in pitch control.

Tony
SoarScale2 is offline Find More Posts by SoarScale2
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 18, 2009, 04:48 PM
Registered User
Billymac's Avatar
Albq, NM
Joined Sep 2005
619 Posts
Hi Tony,

That is a good start, and the possible beginning of another thread. It's always interesting to hear how other people do things. At least it is is for me.

If I remember correctly; I don't use any mixes for the spoiler to elev., but just fly it. And know that it is going to pitch up some.

But that mix is certainly worth a try!


Bill
Billymac is offline Find More Posts by Billymac
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 18, 2009, 05:02 PM
Registered User
Michigan
Joined Jan 2004
89 Posts
I agree with Tony. I never use the aileron rudder mixing. If you forget to turn it off on takeoff or landing, it could be disasterous. So, never use it.
Richard314 is offline Find More Posts by Richard314
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 18, 2009, 06:25 PM
Vintage wood is the best!
SZD16's Avatar
In a house
Joined Sep 2002
2,788 Posts
I always use ail/rud mix while flying, I find it's just easier to fly with the mix and since I'm not trying to compete with my planes in any way shape or form why make it more difficult to fly? I want the experience to be the most pleasurable and laid back as possible. I have it turned off for tow and then also for landing.....I don't find it that hard to remember. Your mileage my vary.
SZD16 is offline Find More Posts by SZD16
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 19, 2009, 03:26 AM
Registered User
Shaper Dave's Avatar
Oahu Hawaii
Joined Aug 2004
1,023 Posts
I always have the mix on at all times. Glider and Tow Plane. In case you guys didn't realize it, you always have more rudder on the left stick to over ride or add to the bank as needed.
Proper mixing is done by a series of Dutch Rolls to watch the nose slip or skid as bank is applied at trim speed 45 deg left then 45 deg to the right. Once this is dialed in you will always have a coordinated entry to a turn at trim speed. This will vary with higher speeds etc. and you can add more as needed while circling.
I have never had an instance where flying un coupled was a benefit.

Dave
Shaper Dave is offline Find More Posts by Shaper Dave
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 19, 2009, 06:09 AM
MTT
I care about rising air !
MTT's Avatar
West Chester, Ohio
Joined Feb 2002
2,003 Posts
Quote:
I always use ail/rud mix while flying, I find it's just easier to fly with the mix and since I'm not trying to compete with my planes in any way shape or form why make it more difficult to fly? I want the experience to be the most pleasurable and laid back as possible. I have it turned off for tow and then also for landing.....I don't find it that hard to remember. Your mileage my vary.
I used to have the ail/rudder mix on all the time, until I was told that it would be better ( without explanation why ) to fly uncoupled...
So I turned it off, and started training my left thumb..
Took me a while, but now it's second nature, and no harder than flying with the mix on.
I found that it gives you more control than with a fixed mix, it is easier to apply the right amount of rudder for the circumstances.
Changing the amount of mix on a mixer during flight is not so easy...
MTT is online now Find More Posts by MTT
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 19, 2009, 06:34 AM
Registered User
Billymac's Avatar
Albq, NM
Joined Sep 2005
619 Posts
Dave,

I understand that you have the mix on at all times while flying. So do I.
Question is "What about during the take off roll and landing? "
Is it necessary?

My personal preference is to turn it off during those times, and turn it on after release. It just makes flying a easier.

Bill
Billymac is offline Find More Posts by Billymac
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 19, 2009, 10:36 AM
bie
maidenflight-postponer
bie's Avatar
Germany
Joined Oct 2004
785 Posts
Hi,

I think, thereís no rule you can stick to - itís just, what works best for you and whatís most convenient.

Iíve got the ail-to-rud-mix switchable. During take-off and landings thereís no mix, the same while going aerobatic with loops, rolls, going inverted and so on.

The mix comes in when going thermal. You donít have to care for everything at the same time and donít have to concentrate as much as when you go by separated functions.

SZD said: I want the experience to be the most pleasurable and laid back as possible.

And thatís true for me, I donít compete with anybody about whoís able to fly it strict to the rulebook.

And: You always can overrule the mix in an instant by using the rudder-stick and the aileron-stick on your TX at the same time (no need to use the switch).

Just my 2ct,

Andy
bie is offline Find More Posts by bie
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 19, 2009, 10:44 AM
Will fly for food
davidjensen's Avatar
Bellevue WA,
Joined Dec 2003
6,476 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaper Dave
I always have the mix on at all times. Glider and Tow Plane. In case you guys didn't realize it, you always have more rudder on the left stick to over ride or add to the bank as needed.
Proper mixing is done by a series of Dutch Rolls to watch the nose slip or skid as bank is applied at trim speed 45 deg left then 45 deg to the right. Once this is dialed in you will always have a coordinated entry to a turn at trim speed. This will vary with higher speeds etc. and you can add more as needed while circling.
I have never had an instance where flying un coupled was a benefit.

Dave
I agree with this and never have understood why anyone would turn off the aileron to rudder mix off for takeoff and landings. The mix helps keep the roll in line with the direction of travel by removing the adverse yaw which is just what you want when taking off or landing. I personally use only about 1/2 ail to rud mix and put the other half in with the left stick manually.
davidjensen is offline Find More Posts by davidjensen
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 19, 2009, 12:14 PM
Electric Airplane Junkie
bhchan's Avatar
San Mateo, Ca , USA
Joined Jun 2000
5,535 Posts
What is mixing? Unless you are flying in the "EXACT" condition all the times, the coupling will not work!! The fixed rate mixing works for "ONE" condition, that is it! I don't even have that coupling mix program in the tx. Last weekend at Visalia, I flew my 5.3M Duo, it was a bit windy, I was using inside ail and rudder on the down wind leg of the circle and outside aileron and inside rudder to keep the wing from being blow into the turn. I always fly uncouples.

I take it when you said take off, means flying behind the tow plane? If that is the case, no rudder, just aileron to keep the wing level. You certainly not using aileron to correct heading on landing, use rudder only to correct the heading and use aileron(normally opposite to rudder input) to keep the wing level. So coupling the rud to ail is a bad thing, specially on take offs and landings.

Brian, an EAJ
bhchan is offline Find More Posts by bhchan
Last edited by bhchan; Oct 19, 2009 at 05:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 19, 2009, 01:47 PM
Registered User
Billymac's Avatar
Albq, NM
Joined Sep 2005
619 Posts
Brian,
I think you hit it on the head!
IMHO when you are behind the towplane there is no use for the mix except to help you get into trouble. I surely don't want a rudder input while I try to level the wings. And the towplane is accelerating.

And while setting up for landing I once again don't want the added input from the rudder while keeping the wings level.

Thanks for everyone's input Guess maybe I'll stick with what I've been doing so far.. Nice to know what everyone else thinks.

Brian; picts from Visalia in a another thread??

Bill
Billymac is offline Find More Posts by Billymac
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 19, 2009, 02:59 PM
Electric Airplane Junkie
bhchan's Avatar
San Mateo, Ca , USA
Joined Jun 2000
5,535 Posts
Bill,

Where were you? At one time, we had 3 EMS Duo Discus (Discii?) up in the air.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1128298

The weather was not that great, the rain did a mess to the weather pattern. The fog did not lift till 3 p.m. on Friday. Saturday was not too bad, we started flying about noon, till about 6. We left on Saturday.

Brian, an EAJ
bhchan is offline Find More Posts by bhchan
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 19, 2009, 04:16 PM
Registered User
Billymac's Avatar
Albq, NM
Joined Sep 2005
619 Posts
Hey Brian,

Didn't have any time off, as I used most of it after some surgery.
We actually haad a small aero-tow here in NM. Had a pretty good time. Flew the DG-600 still have a right roll to it and also maidened a KA-6 from Roedellmodel.. Look for the thread on the CG for the KA-6. I posted a couple picts there.
I see Mike Lance was there as well as Dennis.. Tell Mike that I have a LET Taborca now.. he was pretty hot for the Cortina

Maybe next year....

Bill
Billymac is offline Find More Posts by Billymac
Last edited by Billymac; Oct 19, 2009 at 04:17 PM. Reason: Additions
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 19, 2009, 04:31 PM
SOARMINDED
GNX430's Avatar
United States, OK, Mannford
Joined Jul 2006
408 Posts
Brian,

I have wondered about this too! Mike Lance was very stern the first time i towed behind him that he would not tow me unless i switched the mix off! I was upset at first thinking it was my sailplane BUT keep his advice till this day and after watching you come in on that flight with opposite controls on downwind and final and describing it to me after that flight, i see that Mike's comments and worries were founded! Half the time i forget to turn it back on and just adjust with the rudder stick to keep the wings level. The Nimbus wont turn unless i have the rudder 90 degrees it feels like It seems even when i have the mix on i usually override it with the left thumb! I am glad someone brought this up and all the good pilots have made comments what works for them and we can all try something new and maybe become better or smoother pilots? One maiden down, ONE TO GO!
GNX430 is offline Find More Posts by GNX430
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hook on landing gear for a zagi! funflyer Foamies (Kits) 2 Aug 24, 2003 03:03 AM
Stinger Prop(s) Breaks on landing... too often e-sailpilot86 High Performance 29 Aug 26, 2002 04:56 PM
Neubie to Power and Speed need pointers on landing rparigoris High Performance 3 May 07, 2002 07:47 PM
48"+, EPP, ail/elev/rud/ speed 500, 8 cell super FUN-FLY Arf-that's what I want Balin Foamies (Kits) 0 Jul 22, 2001 10:46 AM
Can we run two ail. servos and elev. on 3 chan. receiver ? Lenny970 Power Systems 4 Jun 30, 2001 12:54 AM