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Old Oct 16, 2009, 08:23 AM
Southern Pride
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E-flite mSR batteries E flite 110-120 Hyp.CX 120 and others

Way back on 10-7-09 I received my Blade mSR which now has over 90 flights on it. It took me a week to get around to testing the two 120 and 4 110 mAh cells I purchased with it due to not having the necessary super small connectors on hand.

The OEM 4 Bay charger has a 300 mA output per bay (2.5C) which while fast is most likely very hard on the cells. I chose a 1 amp. discharge rate as this would equal an approx. 6 min. flight which is the norm for many. The 3.2 volts cut off point was chosen as the cells recover to 3.7 in a few minutes ,same as after a 5 min. flight for me.

Included attachment of my modified OEM charger.

How to adjust charge rate pots

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=24

Update: Charging 4 Eflite 110 mAh cells at once . LiFePO4 no load 6.64 / min. voltage 6.43 / Peak load 1.27 Amp. / 403 mAh consumed.


Post by jj604 on many 110-138(?) batteries

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=489

and here

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=491


10-22-09 Added Graph Eflite 120 and Hyp CX 120 . CX 11-1/2 min. charges at .6A (5C)

11-7-09 Initial Flightmax 138 mAh flight test here

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=21
Charles
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Old Oct 16, 2009, 10:02 AM
ProgressiveRC
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Charles - nice, thanks for the results. Good to see the specs. are relatively accurate and the 120s really offer increased capacity. I wonder how those $2 plugs from HC compare. They claim 138mAh, and we all know that must be accurate since it is not rounded off to 140 (kidding).

Do you or does anyone else know where to pick up some of those tiny mCX/mSR/ParkZone Vapor connectors for the charger side of things?

- David
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Old Oct 16, 2009, 11:18 AM
Southern Pride
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Hobby King has some JST- XH extensions listed , 5 for $1.98. I have heard they are OK but have not seen any in person. I have read that the Zippy flightmax 138s are sub par and only provide approx. 4 min flights when new and go down hill extremely fast especialy if flown to LVC.

May prove to be waste of money but I ordered some of the extensions and the super cells . At the very least I will be able to anounce to the world that I have tested Zippys.


JST- XH extensions
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Old Oct 16, 2009, 11:51 AM
Use the 4S Luke
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Hey Charles - In another thread I thought I saw where you and others agreed that charging at 2 or 3C was not detrimental to LiPo's. Are these tiny cells different?
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Old Oct 16, 2009, 12:04 PM
Southern Pride
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Oh goodie another opitunity for a great debate.

I have charged Thunder Powers at 3c for years ,the ProLites were the first cells to use stacked construction. Hyeprion G use what I believe David called folded stacked or roll folded or some such term. It all gets very confusing at times. In another thread Charlie stated that E flite cells and othe cells under 320 mAh were most likely rolled constuction and charging at greater than 1c would shorten their life.

Hyperion G3 CX 120 cells are rated for 5C charging same as the ret of the G cells.

Charlie Wang's , Mr. Thunder Power post

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...59&postcount=7


Dave ,Mr. AC World / Hyperion post.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=17




Charles
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Old Oct 16, 2009, 12:26 PM
Use the 4S Luke
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So the answer to my question above is 'Yes'
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Old Oct 16, 2009, 12:38 PM
Southern Pride
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If you are asking if I think charging these E-flite 110-150 mAh cells at 2 to 2-1/2 C is good for then my answer is no. IMO E-flite LiPolys have most always been fairly low quality at best but then many believe all LiPolys are created equal.



Why would E-flite design and calibrtae a charge that would shorten the life of the LiPloys? Consumer preference same as Everyready,Sanyo,Ray O Vac and other NiMH AA / AAA producers. Consumers do not want to have to wait 12 Hrs. to charge their batteries.


Note for those who missed it. E flite charger is adjustable from approx. 70 to 360 mA per bay and TME 4 cell strip turns on slot into a 1 to 5 cell slot which means 1 at nonimal 300 mA,2 at 150ea. 3at 100 ea. (1c) etc.

Charles
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Old Oct 16, 2009, 08:32 PM
jrb
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Hi Charles; great info as usual!

Is the output of the A123 knocked down at all, or used full tilt/volts?

I did the single cell charger mod ( http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=955310 ) and got these results with variuos voltages/sources ( http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...3&postcount=68 ):
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Old Oct 16, 2009, 09:08 PM
Southern Pride
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I use them with no regulation. They hold over 6 v. for around 8 cells then start droping slowly . After around 15 they are down to around 5.5 and I can tell the charge rate is slowing. This is better than the D cells do from what I have read. I mostly use the wall PS and use the LiFePO4 when I go outside to fly 6 or 8 flights or so.

I read in a thread on Helifreak where someone used a 6V BEC and a 3S 2200 mAh LiPolys which fits inside but LiFePO4 are just so simple and I have plenty laying around.


Note the 2S LiFePO4 pack I am using happens to be two very old tired cells that are not A123 System ones and only deliver 1900 mAh or so.

If I can remember I will fly 4 of my cells down and place Inspector wattmeter in-line and see how many mAh are being pulled from the pack.

Charles
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Old Oct 17, 2009, 08:12 AM
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Quote from another thread:
"The vast majority of the RC lipo on the market till now use an internal construction arrangement called "stacked". This results in quick-response delivery of high C rates, relatively low cost of production, and a relatively light battery. However, life-cycle performance is relatively poor with the stacked arrangement, and cells tend to drift faster (ie imbalance in a pack)".

1) "Stacked" construction delivery of high C rates= True
2) Relatively light battery= True, that is why Thunder Power prolite is the prefer battery for 3D flying, F3A competition, F3C competion, UAVs.
3) life cycle performance is relatively poor= False, totaly misleading.TP ProPower has the best life-cycle performance.
4) "stacked" cells tend to drift faster (ie imbalance in a pack)= False, TP prolite pack is known for maintaining cell balance for a long time, still unmatch by others.
5) "Stacked" cell is relatively low cost of production= False, "Stack" construction is the highest cost in production, it provide the above advantages over all other construction technique.

Advantages of Thunder Power "Stacked" construction over other construction technique: High C rates( both charging & discharging), lightest weight, best performance & cycle life, stay balance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by everydayflyer
Oh goodie another opitunity for a great debate.

I have charged Thunder Powers at 3c for years ,the ProLites were the first cells to use stacked construction. Hyeprion G use what I believe David called folded stacked or roll folded or some such term. It all gets very confusing.......

Charles
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Old Oct 17, 2009, 01:02 PM
Southern Pride
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Updated post # 1 with following data.

Charging 4 Eflite 110 mAh cells at once . LiFePO4 no load 6.64 / min. voltage 6.43 / Peak load 1.27 Amp. / 403 mAh consumed.

Charles
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Old Oct 19, 2009, 12:38 PM
Ignint McNugget
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Quote:
Originally Posted by write2dgray
Do you or does anyone else know where to pick up some of those tiny mCX/mSR/ParkZone Vapor connectors for the charger side of things?

- David
David,

Glenn2626 sells them.
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Old Oct 22, 2009, 10:31 AM
Southern Pride
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Added graph with Hyp CX 120 to post #1.

Charles
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Old Oct 22, 2009, 10:53 AM
ProgressiveRC
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Thanks Rumple.

And Charles, looking forward to the results comparison from HC. I ordered some more packs from there for comparative purposes myself recently, it will be interesting to see how they stack up. I've also been thinking about caving in and getting an mSR, it seems everyone in the hangar nearby has one for their winter heli flying fix.

- David
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Old Oct 22, 2009, 11:04 AM
Southern Pride
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Two weeks and 122 flights on mine so as you can guess it really do not care to fly it much.

Last week my son was over the weather was nice and I had cut my local flying field but we choose to stay home and fly the mSR,go figure.




Charles
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