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Old Oct 14, 2012, 04:17 PM
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Bill9009's Avatar
Joined Apr 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorhead View Post
Many chose to use the trim or a mix on a switch to keep the prop spinning all the time. This overcame the starting issue in flight and improves throttle response. I have not checked for a newer version. Guess I need to check again.
Mike
Fancyfoam
What is the start up problem?

my motor "the A 20 34S" works well in my mx2 and a combatt plane i built. but in a wildcat i just finished testing it twiches on start up. im runing it with the thunderbird 9.



I found the problem
when looking at the prop I realized I forgot to put the metal prop adaptor on the apc prop so it vibrated a little too much I think
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Old Dec 02, 2012, 06:17 PM
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Joined Mar 2012
41 Posts
I want to show some friends my build so hope you guys don't mind me bombing the thread :]. This was a pretty tricky and technical build for me. Learned some tricks, though, and I really enjoyed it a lot. All that trussing is really fun to work on.

I felt like the landing gear were a bit stubby. I cut it to spec at 6" but it just doesn't seem very high. I had to cut the gear leg pants to fit which made me even more suspicious.



ballin', there goes my hobby budget for a while









I got one side of the gear at a perfect 45 degree angle but missed it on the other. This combined with about a 1mm mistake in the gear leg length means it sits crooked. Grrrrr.



The alignment is otherwise dead straight all around. Flat surface, good instructions.





This is kind of a mess but I'm good with it .







I ended up putting the elevator and rudder linkages on the closest hole and I sort of regret it. I think I could have squeezed out full throws by jacking my tx up to 125%.

Technically I maidened it already because I held it vertical in my living room and let go for 0.5s . I'm veeeery tempted to try to get it into a hover in here but these things usually end in tears lol. It's been raining for a week. The sun finally came out but the grassy field I want to maiden in is soaked. I'll try to get some video going in about a week .

Great kit RJ, thanks.
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Old Dec 02, 2012, 06:56 PM
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USA, GA, Atlanta
Joined Nov 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill9009 View Post
What is the start up problem?
I think the problem he was referring to is a compatibility issue that several of us have experienced when trying to use the hacker A10-9L with the CC9amp ESC.

Here is what mine would do when advancing the throttle:
Hacker A10-9L (0 min 28 sec)


Some persons would bump the throttle trim up to keep the prop spinning (as you can see from above, this combination stutters when advancing the throttle from idle).

I simply got annoyed with it, it sounds awful and adjusting ESC programming did absolutely nothing to improve the start-up problems. The ultimate solution IMO was simply to replace the CC9amp with any other brand and the motor will preform flawlessly and without issues.

I have found CC to offer great ESCs and BECs, but this combination of the 9amp and the A10-9L does not meet my expectations. While it will fly, I cannot understand why they would continue to recommend this combination... this has been a known issue for at least a few years.



Yours is the first report I have heard of the start-up issue using an A20. I recommend giving the 9amp away, any cheap HK ESC has done a better job in my experience
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Old Dec 02, 2012, 08:16 PM
Team JR
Medford, NJ
Joined Jan 2004
317 Posts
What version software? I have plenty of Hacker A10s that start up no problems. Some of the newer software versions do not work as well. I usually run 2.18 and if the motor stutters at all on startup, bump up the start power percentage.

Regards,

Dave
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Old Dec 02, 2012, 08:22 PM
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USA, GA, Atlanta
Joined Nov 2008
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Are you using your hackers with the CC9amp?

That video was uploaded in April of 2011, I cannot remember what version software I had at the time, but I do remember updating and still found no success. Either way the solution for me was to simply ditch the CC controller and all my problems were solved... I do not like to have props spinning on the ground if my throttle is at idle; only on my gasser.
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Old Dec 02, 2012, 08:30 PM
Team JR
Medford, NJ
Joined Jan 2004
317 Posts
I've run them on the TBird 9 and Phx 10....mostly the 10.

I don't leave them idling on the ground.....I use a kill switch.....not unlike the ignition kill on gassers. I flip the switch on, the motor idles. I flip the switch off, and the motor dies, and the throttle stick does nothing.

Regards,

Dave
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Old Dec 02, 2012, 08:42 PM
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Joined Nov 2008
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I understand there is a work around- just keep the prop spinning. And that is great to put throttle kills on all your electrics as well.


But for me- I would personally just rather have an esc and motor combination where this is not even an issue; I want a combination that works as my other electrics work. The simple solution is to swap ESC's.

You can try to convince me all day that the combination is suitable, but I found I prefer the response of ANY other esc when used with the Hacker motor. It is a moot argument IMO. You have your preference of keeping the prop spinning and using a switch; I prefer for the motor/esc combination to work in the same manor as my other electrics.
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Old Dec 02, 2012, 08:56 PM
Team JR
Medford, NJ
Joined Jan 2004
317 Posts
Just to be clear - using 2.18 software, you don't have to keep a slow idle.

One of the ugly truths with electrics is that you will not find a single ESC with universal settings that efficiently runs all motors....there is just too much variation in types and quality of motors. It might be an extra step to change the software in a Castle ESC, but at least the option is there, and when the software is optimized, it is pretty rare to find another ESC that runs a motor more efficiently than a Castle.

As RJ mentioned, the slow idle flies better, which is why many (especially competition pilots) pilots fly with a slow idle. The "kill" switch is simply another viable option if changing software isn't possible (very easy with a Castle Link).

Regards,

Dave
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Old Dec 02, 2012, 10:06 PM
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As I said, I do not recall what version I was on, it was over a year ago, I moved on....
to each his own, we all have our own preferences. You have made yours clear, as have I.

I never commented anything negative of the efficiency of the controller, I love castle and use them in EVERY other plane (so long as it is not the CC9). Currently I am running Ice 50, Ice 50 lite, Phoenix 80, Ice HV 80, and Ice 100s. I would not use anything else in my larger ships.
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 11:05 AM
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Kansas, USA
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Has anyone tried the new 4.01 software. I wish I had a controller on hand to test it with. The comments on this latest version says they made some changes to help it start outrunners better. It would be cool if one of you guys that has one that does not start the hacker motors could upgrade and report back if it fixes it.
Mike
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 11:12 AM
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I gotta do some digging, I believe I still have the motor but I am doubtful I still have the esc. I will double check though.
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 12:38 PM
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Rochester New York
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I can download and test the new software hopefully tonight at some point and get back with you guys.
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 10:54 PM
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United States, MA, Lowell
Joined May 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveL322 View Post
Just to be clear - using 2.18 software, you don't have to keep a slow idle.

One of the ugly truths with electrics is that you will not find a single ESC with universal settings that efficiently runs all motors....there is just too much variation in types and quality of motors. It might be an extra step to change the software in a Castle ESC, but at least the option is there, and when the software is optimized, it is pretty rare to find another ESC that runs a motor more efficiently than a Castle.

As RJ mentioned, the slow idle flies better, which is why many (especially competition pilots) pilots fly with a slow idle. The "kill" switch is simply another viable option if changing software isn't possible (very easy with a Castle Link).

Regards,

Dave
On all of my airplanes whether foamy or 74" balsa, I have setup three throttle curves that I select with a three-position switch:

Throttle Cut
The first curve sets the throttle to zero regardless of throttle position. This is my 'kill' switch which I always set whenever I plug/unplug the battery or have it sitting armed in the pits. Every time I turn on the transmitter, I make sure the switch is in Throttle Cut.

Normal Idle
The second curve is 0 throttle at idle and 100 at full throttle. The motor stops when I bring it to idle in this mode.

Slow Idle
The third curve is the same as the second, but at 0 throttle, the motor running at a slow idle. The amount depends on the plane/motor. I find often that the motor must already be running above this idle before I switch to this slow idle curve. That's why my throttle curves go from throttle cut (bottom position), to normal idle (middle position) to slow idle (top position). If it's in throttle cut and I then put it right to slow idle, the motor sometimes cannot start properly. But if you are flying in normal idle and your throttle is above that slow idle, it doesn't have a problem dropping down to this slow idle position. Note that if I have the throttle endpoints set to auto, I always take off in Normal Idle mode to properly set the auto endpoints. After the endpoints are set, I fly the rest of the flight in Slow Idle mode.

With the Futaba 8FG, I can set these modes using three throttle curves though I suppose that you could simply use the Throttle Cut and Idle Down functions for two of these curves, but I had a problem getting them to work the way I expected. I'm not running VPP so I have these throttle curves free.
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 01:10 AM
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Here's my maiden flight.

4mph wind, maybe more. Even with fighting the wind this thing was like a ballerina. This is literally the first advanced 3d I've tried to do. Lots of sim time. I have a 3DHS 41" Edge (buck huck) that I could do some basic stuff with but I was always too nervous to try low hovers, etc. The MX2 is the right plane for me :].

I land at the end quick because I hear a big vibration and it's because the prop saver failed to keep the prop on in the last high G move. The vibration caused some damage in the nose which is patched up now. Terrible weather, unfortunately, so nothing since the maiden.

I'm pretty sure I need to move the cg up a little bit. In a stall it wants to go nose up. I started at about 1cm in front of the canopy. I definitely like it as far back as possible though.

Hit up 1080p if you got it.
FancyFoam MX2 Maiden (4 min 0 sec)
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Old Dec 06, 2012, 02:55 AM
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I have always said that a foamy is the only way to learn 3D but I think a super light indoor foamy like this MX-2 is even better than a regular outdoor foamy. The fact that it can fly so slow really calms my nerves as I'm trying new stuff. But I've also found that the MX-2 is great for learning precision aerobatics too. For instance, I wanted to learn to do a one-roll rolling circle and I tried to learn it with my 58" balsa PA Extra MX. The problem is that I had to fly it high because I needed to be a couple mistakes high as I didn't want to crash my primary plane. But I found it difficult to learn at height and at higher speed.

But with my MX-2, I could fly it close to eye level and again, since it flew so slow, it feels like it's all in slow motion. So I was able to learn the rudder/elevator sequence with my MX-2 and then progress to my Extra MX. Other manuevers like slow rolls and rolling loops are also much easier to learn on the MX-2 due to it being in slow motion. Plus the consequences of bungling your rudder or something with any foamy are pretty small. Easy to fix and since it's so light, not that much damage anyway.
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