Let's see your peanuts - Page 5

Mooney · Sep 27, 2009, 10:09 PM

Hi GE,
I bet that you could get that bird going. It looks lilghtly built. Maybe get some trimming experience, but it shouldn't be too crazy to get flying. Much easier than that
Fok G1 you're planning on building!

Josh, I haven't seen any thing on your goon. Looks great. You've not really mentioned it in the past. Any plans available on it?

jwfinn · Sep 30, 2009, 09:46 AM

Hey guys, the Goon was built from Aronstein's plans. Be forewarned that the rudder is undersized and needs to either be enlarged or augmented with a plastic extension. I've heard most people find it tough to trim. Mine works fine, but it did present some problems initially. It does build very light, and if you can keep it under 8 g (which is easy with the wood sizes shown on the plans), it should produce consistent 90+ sec flights. An experienced modeler could make it do 2 1/2 minutes reliably.

More notes...
This model is not an accurate representation of the Goon. It is a very accurate representation of a 3-view drawn by Mendenhall. Present it with that 3-view, and you can max your scale score. Present it with any other and you'll pay the price.
The stab outline doesn't match the one on said 3-view. Make it right.
For FAC mass launch use, add a pair of stringers on each side of the fuselage. This will make it look much better and will avert squawks from other flyers. It doesn't add more than .2 g of weight, so well worth the effort.
The rear peg is way too far aft. Move it to the upright just behind the cockpit. I know that sounds extreme, but you'll have no trouble getting enough rubber in with that.
The three uprights that support the wing need to be strong. After the fuse is built, add 1/16" sq doublers inside, the full length of each upright. Adds little weight, and makes the model more durable.

I tried enlarging this model to 22" span and ran into a lot of problems. Probably lack of experience, but the point is that I never got it flying well. I did try to load 20+ g of rubber into it, and the model was only 35 g, so with the incorrect rear peg placement I used, that probably just overpowered the stab. It definitely showed fantastic potential, but I've never gotten it ironed out. Maybe someday...

I know all this sounds like a lot of work, but I promise it's worth it. This is one of the best flying peanuts out there if you're willing to work at it, and it looks fabulous to boot!

Scirocco14 · Oct 03, 2009, 10:57 PM

Here's a Pietenpol Air Camper I'm just about finished building:

It weighs 12.5 grams w/o rubber, I'm learning how to build them light (even with the kit balsawood. Peck Polymers kits seem to have decent wood).

Here's my first Peanut, a Druine Turbulent:

I didn't know that if you wanted them to fly that you didn't paint the flying surfaces, so it came out kind of porky @ 20 grams. It flies OK, I can get 20-25 second flights out of it outdoors.

Mark

GerbilEssences · Oct 08, 2009, 05:35 PM

Hi Mooney,

If you call this flying then yes, it wasn't too hard to achieve

:

F4F Wildcat 'FLYING' - Peanut scale (2 min 6 sec)

My next projects will be 2mm wall foam, and cut out according to card plans from fiddlersgreen.

pedr01 · Oct 08, 2009, 05:45 PM

Can you still buy 2mm wall foam? Where? I haven't managed to locate any for ages ...

lincoln · Oct 08, 2009, 08:50 PM

I've seen small models of the Wildcat fly much better than that, and I bet yours could too with the right trimming. See if you can find a group of guys who fly free flight scale near you.

If you can find it, which isn't easy, "Making Scale Model Airplanes Fly" by William McCombs, is an excellent book. However, I'm not sure it's available anywhere anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GerbilEssences

Hi Mooney,

If you call this flying then yes, it wasn't too hard to achieve

:
link snipped

My next projects will be 2mm wall foam, and cut out according to card plans from fiddlersgreen.

scigs30 · Oct 08, 2009, 10:24 PM

The Wildcat is a nice build and your plane looks good. WWII Peanuts are tough to trim. Couple of things I did notice, 1. Increase the dihedral and add washout to both tips. 2. Use colored tissue next time so you don't have to add weight with paint. 3. Pre Shrink the tissue so the parts don't warp. This should help the plane fly better in the future. Once again good job and keep up the good work.

GerbilEssences · Oct 09, 2009, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pedr01

Can you still buy 2mm wall foam? Where? I haven't managed to locate any for ages ...

I'm not sure what country you are in, but here in the UK I buy it from Wickes (a builders merchant/hardware store).

If you iron it on low temperature, it gives the foam a tougher skin.

GerbilEssences · Oct 09, 2009, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scigs30

The Wildcat is a nice build and your plane looks good. WWII Peanuts are tough to trim. Couple of things I did notice, 1. Increase the dihedral and add washout to both tips. 2. Use colored tissue next time so you don't have to add weight with paint. 3. Pre Shrink the tissue so the parts don't warp. This should help the plane fly better in the future. Once again good job and keep up the good work.

Thanks for the advice. I did add washout, but probably not enough. I used some coloured tissue and some plain tissue that was chalked, the only paint is on the white diagonal wing stripes, letters and roundels. I think the tail was over engineered and the green tissue was just too heavy, meaning I had to add a LOT of blu tack to balance it. I wasn't aware of any warping and tried to avoid it by pinning balsa parts firmly in place before covering.

On my last flight I glued the wings to give more dihedral and it flew much better - until the wings snapped off!

So now I will make a fresh start on another plane.

Cheers,
Dave.

GerbilEssences · Oct 09, 2009, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lincoln

I've seen small models of the Wildcat fly much better than that, and I bet yours could too with the right trimming. See if you can find a group of guys who fly free flight scale near you.

If you can find it, which isn't easy, "Making Scale Model Airplanes Fly" by William McCombs, is an excellent book. However, I'm not sure it's available anywhere anymore.

Thanks, I will try my best to find it

I think in this case that I had to add way too much nose weight to balance out the heavy tail. After all it was my first balsa plane, lesson learned!

pedr01 · Oct 09, 2009, 04:10 PM

Great info, thanks Gerbil

jwfinn · Oct 09, 2009, 10:44 PM

Dave,

Wildcats can be made to fly extremely well. One of the fastest climbing scale models I've ever seen was a Wildcat. It went pretty much straight up in a nice spiral, transitioning into a smooth glide once it was a couple hundred feet up. At ~19" span, it was bigger than yours, but it was also built heavier.

Yours has several problems. #1, your prop is on backwards. Until you fix that, she ain't gonna fly. #2, your CG is WAY too far aft based on those videos. Start with it 1/3 of the way back from the wing LE, maybe only 1/4, then get a good glide estabilished by varying the stab incidence (use paper tabs if you can't move the stab). Power trim should be done entirely using the thrustline.

One other thing: those landing gear may look nice, but they only add drag and stability problems. WWII subjects fly best with the landing gear retracted, meaning draw a set of closed gear doors on the bottom, or in your case, glue dummy wheels in those wells on the fuselage.

buildawyvern · Oct 14, 2009, 02:07 PM

Hello all!

Here's some of my peanuts. The Gypsy Moth flys the best but for only about 30 seconds. The Aircamper flys OK too at about the same time. The Luscombe Silvare is still in the trimming stage after two years! The Lacy is 16" span and flys very well. I think peanut should have been 16" since that's when they start to fly better. The Lacy makes a good peanut along with the Nesmith Cougar, Andreason biplane and a few others. Bostonians fly great too at 16".

Have fun!

"Build what YOU want, the way YOU WANT, and most of all, have fun!!"
(Quote from internet modeler.com website)

jwfinn · Oct 16, 2009, 08:09 PM

I forgot to share one of my other peanuts. I no longer have this one. It was a great flyer, but I never got it completely figured out. Flew nicely, though, and was lost on an 8 minute thermaling flight. The larger one is 19.5" span and is still around. It is a fabulous flyer and has a pop-up stab DT so I can keep it. Flights are around 90 sec at the moment, but some recent mods should push it to about 2 minutes. I should note that the smaller one was able to do about 80 sec when everything was just right. I think it would have been capable of much more if I'd had it around long enough.

The Mustang was a good flyer, too, but was a little heavy at 12 g. I was getting close to consistent minute+ flights when it decided to go swimming and was never recovered. Had I used my own wood, it would have come in around 9 g, perhaps less. Jim Buxton has a very light peanut Mustang that does over 2 minutes indoors: http://www.gryffinaero.com/models/ff...xton/p51a.html

buildawyvern · Oct 17, 2009, 12:54 AM

Wow! They look like great flyers. What's the name of the model in the first photo? Are the plans available?

Tom

Sep 30, 2009, 09:46 AM	#62
jwfinn Free Flight rubber flyer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: South Carolina Posts: 398	Hey guys, the Goon was built from Aronstein's plans. Be forewarned that the rudder is undersized and needs to either be enlarged or augmented with a plastic extension. I've heard most people find it tough to trim. Mine works fine, but it did present some problems initially. It does build very light, and if you can keep it under 8 g (which is easy with the wood sizes shown on the plans), it should produce consistent 90+ sec flights. An experienced modeler could make it do 2 1/2 minutes reliably. More notes... This model is not an accurate representation of the Goon. It is a very accurate representation of a 3-view drawn by Mendenhall. Present it with that 3-view, and you can max your scale score. Present it with any other and you'll pay the price. The stab outline doesn't match the one on said 3-view. Make it right. For FAC mass launch use, add a pair of stringers on each side of the fuselage. This will make it look much better and will avert squawks from other flyers. It doesn't add more than .2 g of weight, so well worth the effort. The rear peg is way too far aft. Move it to the upright just behind the cockpit. I know that sounds extreme, but you'll have no trouble getting enough rubber in with that. The three uprights that support the wing need to be strong. After the fuse is built, add 1/16" sq doublers inside, the full length of each upright. Adds little weight, and makes the model more durable. I tried enlarging this model to 22" span and ran into a lot of problems. Probably lack of experience, but the point is that I never got it flying well. I did try to load 20+ g of rubber into it, and the model was only 35 g, so with the incorrect rear peg placement I used, that probably just overpowered the stab. It definitely showed fantastic potential, but I've never gotten it ironed out. Maybe someday... I know all this sounds like a lot of work, but I promise it's worth it. This is one of the best flying peanuts out there if you're willing to work at it, and it looks fabulous to boot! Attached Files goon_pnut.pdf (83.1 KB, 109 views)

Oct 14, 2009, 02:07 PM	#73
buildawyvern Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 140	Tom's Peanuts Hello all! Here's some of my peanuts. The Gypsy Moth flys the best but for only about 30 seconds. The Aircamper flys OK too at about the same time. The Luscombe Silvare is still in the trimming stage after two years! The Lacy is 16" span and flys very well. I think peanut should have been 16" since that's when they start to fly better. The Lacy makes a good peanut along with the Nesmith Cougar, Andreason biplane and a few others. Bostonians fly great too at 16". Have fun! "Build what YOU want, the way YOU WANT, and most of all, have fun!!" (Quote from internet modeler.com website) Attached Thumbnails 62.5 KB · Views: 34 60.9 KB · Views: 34 61.4 KB · Views: 40 62.1 KB · Views: 31 62.6 KB · Views: 49 61.0 KB · Views: 45

Oct 16, 2009, 08:09 PM	#74
jwfinn Free Flight rubber flyer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: South Carolina Posts: 398	I forgot to share one of my other peanuts. I no longer have this one. It was a great flyer, but I never got it completely figured out. Flew nicely, though, and was lost on an 8 minute thermaling flight. The larger one is 19.5" span and is still around. It is a fabulous flyer and has a pop-up stab DT so I can keep it. Flights are around 90 sec at the moment, but some recent mods should push it to about 2 minutes. I should note that the smaller one was able to do about 80 sec when everything was just right. I think it would have been capable of much more if I'd had it around long enough. The Mustang was a good flyer, too, but was a little heavy at 12 g. I was getting close to consistent minute+ flights when it decided to go swimming and was never recovered. Had I used my own wood, it would have come in around 9 g, perhaps less. Jim Buxton has a very light peanut Mustang that does over 2 minutes indoors: http://www.gryffinaero.com/models/ff...xton/p51a.html Attached Thumbnails 94.2 KB · Views: 38 89.8 KB · Views: 42

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Sep 27, 2009, 10:09 PM	#61
Mooney Registered User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Troy, NY Posts: 96	Hi GE, I bet that you could get that bird going. It looks lilghtly built. Maybe get some trimming experience, but it shouldn't be too crazy to get flying. Much easier than that Fok G1 you're planning on building! Josh, I haven't seen any thing on your goon. Looks great. You've not really mentioned it in the past. Any plans available on it?

Oct 03, 2009, 10:57 PM	#63
Scirocco14 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Asheville, NC Posts: 15	Here's a Pietenpol Air Camper I'm just about finished building: It weighs 12.5 grams w/o rubber, I'm learning how to build them light (even with the kit balsawood. Peck Polymers kits seem to have decent wood). Here's my first Peanut, a Druine Turbulent: I didn't know that if you wanted them to fly that you didn't paint the flying surfaces, so it came out kind of porky @ 20 grams. It flies OK, I can get 20-25 second flights out of it outdoors. Mark

Oct 08, 2009, 05:45 PM	#65
pedr01 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 28	Can you still buy 2mm wall foam? Where? I haven't managed to locate any for ages ...

Oct 08, 2009, 10:24 PM	#67
scigs30 Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 135	The Wildcat is a nice build and your plane looks good. WWII Peanuts are tough to trim. Couple of things I did notice, 1. Increase the dihedral and add washout to both tips. 2. Use colored tissue next time so you don't have to add weight with paint. 3. Pre Shrink the tissue so the parts don't warp. This should help the plane fly better in the future. Once again good job and keep up the good work.

Oct 09, 2009, 04:10 PM	#71
pedr01 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 28	Great info, thanks Gerbil

Oct 09, 2009, 10:44 PM	#72
jwfinn Free Flight rubber flyer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: South Carolina Posts: 398	Dave, Wildcats can be made to fly extremely well. One of the fastest climbing scale models I've ever seen was a Wildcat. It went pretty much straight up in a nice spiral, transitioning into a smooth glide once it was a couple hundred feet up. At ~19" span, it was bigger than yours, but it was also built heavier. Yours has several problems. #1, your prop is on backwards. Until you fix that, she ain't gonna fly. #2, your CG is WAY too far aft based on those videos. Start with it 1/3 of the way back from the wing LE, maybe only 1/4, then get a good glide estabilished by varying the stab incidence (use paper tabs if you can't move the stab). Power trim should be done entirely using the thrustline. One other thing: those landing gear may look nice, but they only add drag and stability problems. WWII subjects fly best with the landing gear retracted, meaning draw a set of closed gear doors on the bottom, or in your case, glue dummy wheels in those wells on the fuselage.

Oct 17, 2009, 12:54 AM	#75
buildawyvern Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 140	Wow! They look like great flyers. What's the name of the model in the first photo? Are the plans available? Tom