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Old Jun 04, 2012, 03:13 PM
What goes up must come down..
Canada, QC, Saint-Laurent
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WTK,
quiz question here, I'm adjusting the ailerons rods ( upper and lower wings) is it true that having the lower ailerons set @ zero degree and the upper ailerons with few degrees up will help for stability and landing on the stiiP?
If so why?
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 03:56 PM
Yes it was Abby Normal
Joined May 2012
1,739 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodair View Post
TG,
My 2 re-build one's maybe not a good ref. here are weighting respectively:
NP one = 21.60 oz. no cowling heavier LG bigger wheels xtra glue.
HK one = 20.46 oz. as NIP rebuild 99 % stock.
..and these figures are without lipo's...and I am sure I am on an "average weight" and no problem to get in the air with 11 x 8 SF prop.
Hope this help.
Aye 10:4 RodAir....I have my HK sttiP on the scale with battery inserted. I have the 2.5inch Dubro wheels on a Park Zone Club landing gear retrofitted providing me the 28.36oz total weight.

True these birds seem lighter than air during flights...LOL. Will have to get the pits galley to make some engine noises during flights at the local R/C field.

Best Regards,
TwistedGrin
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 09:37 PM
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Monahans TX
Joined Sep 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodair View Post
WTK,
quiz question here, I'm adjusting the ailerons rods ( upper and lower wings) is it true that having the lower ailerons set @ zero degree and the upper ailerons with few degrees up will help for stability and landing on the stiiP?
If so why?
It does help a bit during slow speed handling.
For one, it reduces the adverse yaw tendencies at high AOA (angle of attack), and it also add some washout to the upper wings (meaning the wingtips will stall later than the root).
The ailerons get a little more effectiveness any time they're closer to streamline, so when you set the ailerons upward during high AOA they're closer to streamline.
Just a little trick I found out while goofing around with the ailerons, it seemed to make slow flight more stable but also slowed top speed down as well.
I dunno if that extra bit of stability is enough to prevent a first time sttiP pilot from crashing, but it does help teach you how it reacts in slow or high AOA flight.
For example, I was able to get it into a harrier for the first time like that, but it was still too much of a sporty aerobatic bipe for a first time aileron trainer.
The problem with this setup is that while it improves stability in positive G flight, it does the opposite during inverted flight.
Inverted, you now have droop ailerons, and while droop ailerons aren't a bad thing (they allow bush planes like supercubs to land slower), they also make it a bit more difficult to control.
Keep it right side up and you don't have to worry about it.

One thing that might help even more is to put a washer or two between the upper rear wing attachment point and the cabane to "lift" the trailing edge of the top wing up relative to the airframe.
That gives the upper wing less angle of incident (angle relative to airframe) than the lower wing, so when you get into a stall the lower wing stalls out first.
If the lower wing is stalled out, then the majority of the lift is produced by the upper wing essentially turning it into a high wing...which is a very stable aircraft configuration, just without much lift (you're at the point of a stall, can't expect much more help than that!).
This setup works just as well inverted as well, so you don't have to worry about limiting the aircraft to positive G flight.
I haven't experimented on the sttiP with this configuration, so if you want to give it a try be sure that the wing tips haven't warped to a different AOI.
I'm guessing that the rigidity of the foam wing is enough to keep the wing straight, and the washer(s) alone are enough to spread the angle difference across the entire wing.
A change of .5 to 3 degrees overall AOI difference is a good starting point.

This is why some models fly great for certain people and other models fly like crap for others...those tiny angles can make big changes in flight dynamics!
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Old Jun 05, 2012, 05:00 AM
What goes up must come down..
Canada, QC, Saint-Laurent
Joined Jan 2002
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WTK, Good lesson here I'll take good note of it!

Thanks WTK,
I really appreciate your posting here!
And stability is what the Dr. told me I need to focus on.
I will start with 2 washers between the AFT upper wing screw and give it a try!
This all make sence that what I didn't know the streamline of the airflow tendency to flowing up at the TE of a semi symetrical (or close) of the uppper wing.
The second re-build is a lot more "descent than the first one" so I should be able to fell the difference if not maybe my friend a more experience pilot than I will do i,e my flying buddy with his Big GP Reactor and always telling me :" the wind is your friend" when it's 15 knots + or: " Can I put my foot on your plane" when he see me coming back the the Frankenstein stiiP with more repairs done to it.

The two stiiP's that I am learning ailerons were "basket case" when I got them up to overhaul them when I had xtra time for my favorite hobby.

Lately I ran into a problem, when I WOT at take off from a selected hard grass strip that was done by truck tire and with prop wanting to mulch if I am too long (having quite a bit of elevator to avoid this condition), I simply lost power and most of the time I am only few inches from the ground and not wet heading into the wind @ 100% I cart wheel, so I am thinking of making myself a Lipo operated hot glue gun seriouly before the nick name "epoxy victim" spread too fast.

Would this be ?
a bad Lipo? ESC not powerfull enough? overheating? some of my poor welds on that rewound DAT wires to ESC? using an ESC to close to the upper Amp draw of the BL ( I have a HK 15-18A sorry nothing else on hands for now) maybe all the above lol.

To save the flying session I removed the LG gear and HL with easy does it on throotle stick..in the air I have no more problems save my reputation of "bush pilot"..this problem isn't constant, it's interminent... same lipo I suspect a few going south..I rarely go below 3.7 v / cell but these must have a cycles limits?
That would be sad news here..

The name of the game is Fun! and I have plenty of it with the stiiP's.

Thanks again WTK..
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Old Jun 05, 2012, 09:28 AM
Yes it was Abby Normal
Joined May 2012
1,739 Posts
Had a great flight with the HK sttiP last night. Lighting was flashing to the ground east of the R/C field -winds were flirting with 17mph gust now and then as the sun went down behind me...spectacular anvil cloud formations in the orange sky...the color scheme of the HK sttiP was a nice foreground visual in the air...had a good loooong landing on the grass field...what a hoot! Not sure if I want to do touch and go's as the landing gear still need a little attention on anything less than perfect on the grass runway. She handled the winds OK, it's the pilot that needs trimming!!! ..I was able to maintain level flight at near zero ground speed into the wind without wing rock for long periods too. Glide path is level and predictable so I am happy about the weights....much better flying in 10+ winds. I think she is dialed in pretty good. I need a few more sessions of steady flights to work my way down to lower altitude tricks though with confidence. Nice to be able to fly without worring about persons taking foot over the flying field while I am in the air!!!

Now to start working up to the Monahans Manouver....I might pull one off by the end of the summer.......I'll have another Pitts on order by then....LOL

Setting up for some ball cap mounted video this evening, no tricks just trying to maintain steady level flights and turns and stick some more landings...might post if all goes well.

TwistedGrin
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Old Jun 05, 2012, 01:31 PM
Yes it was Abby Normal
Joined May 2012
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Foghorn Leghorn is studying controls for tonights flights......and yes he is crosseyed aint he??

LOL - Hoping he will show up in the GoPro Video's this evening
TwistedGrin
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Old Jun 06, 2012, 12:16 PM
Yes it was Abby Normal
Joined May 2012
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Several flights completed last evening at the local Fort Worth club R/C airfield grass strip on sttiP with FogHorn LegHorn in the "cockpit".
1. The first flight Foghorn was unable to recover from a spiral starting from about 75t, he stayed with the Pitts all the way down, unable to recover out of the tailspin. Crashing nose first in very tall grass, no damages at all...none...as he never touched the ground...the tall grass saved the day.
2. The second flight was great, with a Hobby Lobby Trojan T28 flying with me for several minutes. FogHorn had a smooth landing with a taxi off of the runway. Bonus video of the Trojan runs after I have taxied off the strip towards flight stands.
3. The third flight was cut short when the propeller shattered off in mid flight!!!! I heard a weird noise Flapabraap just as I hard-banked for a slow pass down the runway......I shut power off and was able to elevator down for a smooth very quick landing into the wind. No damages ...but I could not find the prop peices or my black rubber nose spinner...!!!
4. The fourth was an attempt to get off the runway as the sttiP cartwheeled during take off, stripped the landing gear and tore a hole in the lower fuselage. No other damages. Removed the bottom landing gear assembly and readied for a hand launch.
5. Attempt to spin up motor for hand launch....SMOKE....SMOKE. Quickly unplugged the battery

Finished the evening flying the UMX Beast as the sun went down.

Post mortem of the HK sttiP is pending...the GoPro videos place FogHorn LegHorn exploits too far away from reasonable view. The lense of my GoPro is set up for very close camera position so anything 25ft or more away and smaller than a large vehicle is hard to see.

I really don't want to cut my motor shaft off for a spinner assembly but I guess I'll have to do it....I can't find the nose spinner off of Red Nitro-Planes number one (Rats!!).

Flight number two is attached for grins...not much to see except for a reasonably good landing on grass with a taxi off the runway.

Hobby King Pitts Special take flight at local R/C airstrip (10 min 51 sec)


Best Regards - TwistedGrin
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Old Jun 06, 2012, 07:34 PM
What goes up must come down..
Canada, QC, Saint-Laurent
Joined Jan 2002
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The Frankenstein stiiP is now RIP... pilot error.
Lack of judment at and old age with eye sight too low almost blinded by passing right into the sun in an inverted position going directly into a major steel post..it didn't pardon.
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Old Jun 06, 2012, 08:37 PM
Yes it was Abby Normal
Joined May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodair View Post
The Frankenstein stiiP is now RIP... pilot error.
Aye...RIP Frankenstein. Make sure you keep every nut and bolt, every screw, every hard plastic piece, wire, rod, servo's of course for use going forward on any kit.

This is all part of the challenge of R/C. Getting proficient in this hobby is a journey alright.

I am making LG repairs and upgrades to Blue tonight. I fried the ESC and the motor, replaced both and had to solder new connector leads to the replacing ESC....I have no clue what happened in mid air..but pretty sure it fried before touching the ground. I found a nose spinner off of a very old kit I had back in the days of brushed geared motors.

I am still looking for a string of smooth flights and landings, as my own journey with these foamies continues.

TwistedGrin
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Old Jun 07, 2012, 03:44 AM
What goes up must come down..
Canada, QC, Saint-Laurent
Joined Jan 2002
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TG,
Gee U fried the Motor an the ESC at once in the air !
Maybe it's time for your first re-wind ! try to look closely and check for continuity first before giving up on this one.
As for a nose spinner I use Horizon Super Cub Lp or newer DSM rtf plane one they do fit the 4mm shaft and are readily available for a $ I'll post you item # if you can't find this one let me know.
Why did you want to cut the shaft of your motor? just to remove the spinner?

I took the second stiiP for maiden it's was like day and nite! what a change.
Finally a plane that fly like one! closer to original NIB one with good mods.
I only change the LG/skirt and wheels/pants for a bigger set ( Super Cub wire only and original wheels) to take off from grass when I can find a decent spot to do so in the wind.
I don't have a golf green condition like TG in Forth Worth, compare to him I am in the heavy ruff side where the wheels desapear in the grass and the prop mulch at take off if you don't look for a sand trap or burn grass somewhere.
I also use now a DX6i now with expo and rates, so rool are incredibly faster as well as other manovers etc..
I looking fwd maybe for sim. time here before I try knife edge, but right now few more flight at getting use to trim this one and soon a motor change..I think I am ready but the bank manager isn't yet.
Maybe I'll try to give Frank an xtra life by cutting the fuselage fwd of the dash board and rebuild it totally from there I migh also clip the lower wing by 2" but I have to find a fix for the fuse to upp. wing cabane..I'll see it's quite a mess but I have my CAD prints ready + foam it's the time courage that I start too lack maybe this winter..
Gday and Happy Flying all!
Roger
' on each side will see more to do this autum time
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Old Jun 07, 2012, 10:06 AM
Yes it was Abby Normal
Joined May 2012
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Prop Spinner and prop adapter

[QUOTE=rodair;21826717]TG,
As for a nose spinner I use Horizon Super Cub Lp or newer DSM rtf plane one they do fit the 4mm shaft and are readily available for a $ I'll post you item # if you can't find this one let me know.
Why did you want to cut the shaft of your motor? just to remove the spinner?/QUOTE]

I had thoughts of cutting the prop shaft in order to install a collett type of propeller arrarangement. This would mean some massive drilling for the large diameter collett shaft, into my current prop inventory. Keeping the props at the 4mm shaft size is easier for me as I only have to drill out each prop a wee bit to get them to screw onto the 4mm shaft. Additionally I think the larger black rubber nose spinner looks better in the air at low passes and may be providing some cushion protection in cases were nose dives occur. Since we are not spinning ubra high RPM's with these stock motors the idea of a collett arrangment is of little issue, however I have heard others state some issue with collett type arrangements as they can be prone to comming loose on smaller mm shaft sizes...larger shaft sizes not so much.

Picture attached of the Collet prop adapter

TwistedGrin
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Old Jun 09, 2012, 05:46 PM
Yes it was Abby Normal
Joined May 2012
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Four more great flights on the HK sttiP last evening...I think the orange GWS orange 10X8SF prop is my favorite set up...lots of low end tork up and a pretty good WOT speed. Barrel rolls, large and tight rolls, good landing at maintenance throttle. About 7:30minutes on both the 1500mHr 20C battery and the 1800mHr 25c battery

Video posted just for grins via utube link.... again can't see too much from the GoPro camera, but there is an occaisional slow pass and some barrel rolls at entry turn set ups for landing passes and a loop or two at the end of the runway...I'll get better at filming hopefully after experimenting and seeing how to get the best position and placement for video...and hopefully getting better at the sticks.

FogHorn LegHorn in the "CockPit"

Best Regards,
TwistedGrin
FogHornLegHorn Flight 2 and taxi on grass.mov (10 min 3 sec)
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Old Jun 10, 2012, 09:59 PM
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United States, IL, La Grange Park
Joined May 2012
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Random question.

Is whatever version out there (Art Tech, Hobby Lobby, Hobbyking or whatever) OK for advancing from successfully flying the HZ Champ? I want to progress but there seems to be so many options.
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Old Jun 10, 2012, 10:48 PM
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Monahans TX
Joined Sep 2010
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There's better aileron trainers out there than the sttiP, but it has been the first aileron model for several members already.
To me, flying those rudder only micro birds is harder than flying the sttiP, simply because I have a hard time transitioning back to very little control.
However, if you've made your mind up that you want it, you'll probably do just fine as long as you're prepared for those inevitable prangs.
When throws are reduced and expo is used, it's a relatively docile model.
You'll still want a better prop, simply because it's more difficult to fly at such a low speed and not get into trouble.
Landings will probably be your biggest hurdle, as it has to be set down rather gently to avoid damage to the gear, or the prop when the gear flexes on a rough landing.
Stiffen up the gear and it'll be a non-issue.
Also a good idea to reinforce the wings, because you'll be putting it through its paces in no time and high G maneuvers WILL cause the wings to fail...and it helps with cartwheel landings LOL
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Old Jun 11, 2012, 09:36 AM
Yes it was Abby Normal
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West Texas King,

Just for grins and out of sheer joy for building and tinkering...and after have witnessed the Fort Worth R/C club Texas Scale Championship competition this Saturday......I have installed some more Carbon Fiber on my HK sttiP...1.5mm strut supports, four on each wing. Just to see how it would turn out.... Looks great....Ha....but before I permantly glue them in....I wonder now after studying for a while if it will cause too much drag? (I have one more strut to install to complete the entire retrofit on the right wing)

Take a look at the photo and tell me your best guess....little to no weight is added...it will be ubra rigid of course....but I am not sure what it will do to the flight charactaristics if any???

Thanks in advance,
Twisted Grin
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