Al's Cyclogyro The 'Baco-Liner' Mk.II *2nd Video Up* - Page 5

SafeLandings · Oct 28, 2009, 07:09 AM

Al,
Congratulations to the Happy Couple

..looks like you had a great day.

Regards Rich

imsofaman · Oct 28, 2009, 08:48 AM

Thanks for sharing the photos Al. They look so happy and your daughter is beautiful!

Congrats!

rotorheid · Nov 07, 2009, 05:40 AM

Hi Guys,

We're back in the sand pit as of 06:00 MMT. ( Mongo Mean Time) this morning, jet lagged and all birled out after a fantastic time at home, thanks honey, you're the best.

I'll get back up to speed in a few days once I get my stuff together, but first I have to get back into the work ethic again and that starts in 30 mins, I leave you with some halloween snaps, Cheers,

Regards to all, Al

rotorheid · Nov 08, 2009, 01:29 AM

Hi Guys,

Many thanks for the comments, suggestions and kind remarks, my family send regards too.

Bacogomez, An excellent video of the dynamics of the BL, I have repaired the broken through shaft of the rotor and mounted the motor with some downthrust to combat some of the 'pitch up' effect.
I will attempt another flight in this configuration (without the use of a Safety net!

) with your flying technique reccomendations in mind.

I had another idea to try, if I make a free pivoting motor pod with tailplane and elevator at the rear of the pod, and suspend the fuselage from the rotor shaft pylon, then it may be possible to have more control, it may need some fettling but I will give it a go in another version with a new rotor system.

If anyone wonders about the strength and versatility of Depron over balsa, my impact tests show it to be superior so far. Cheers,
regards to all Al

jodini · Nov 08, 2009, 01:35 AM

Looking good Al....and welcome back!

rotorheid · Nov 08, 2009, 01:45 AM

Hi Joe,

Thanks buddy, just off to check the 'field' and weather conditions,

The test went good, it took 4-5 goes to get off the very rough grass, wind light and variable.
1. Down thrust has helped with pitch up effect, I was able to control it reasonably well but ran out of room before the fence, no broken prop !
2. The repair has put the rotor out of balance a little, ground vibration broke out a side bearing but I bodged it back in with sticky tape.
3. I'll get some more work done and try again tomorrow, video being dumped and then edit, more laters.

laters; Videoette of the 2nd test flight, maybe a little less downthrust, have a look and see what you guys think?

@ Al Foot, Hello the other Al,

I doubt that I can make INTER-X untill I'm back in UK permanantly, maybe I could attend by proxy via the wondernet or someone could play a videocast in the bar? I have some more stuff underwraps that would be suitable. cheers mate, The other Al,

http://www.vimeo.com/7497577

Cheers, regards to all, Al

jodini · Nov 08, 2009, 07:45 PM

Hope to see a longer flight Al. That thing just looks so funny flipping around like that...like a duck that was shot but stilll trying to fly!

Norfolk Flyer · Nov 09, 2009, 04:27 AM

Brilliant progress Al, I really like the way it flies so slowly.

Maybe still a tad tail heavy? although you are the best judge of that.

Waiting for the next video, hopefully of a longer flight.

Regards
John

rotorheid · Nov 09, 2009, 05:03 AM

Hi Guys,

Yes lads, I would like to have got a longer flight in too, the previous 4 take off runs took it's toll of the outer head bearings, and the repaired shaft was not as good as the original, so I was happy to quit when I did, still learning.
I will change the mode of rotation, I had the shaft rotating in the bearings, next I will just make the new three blade/vane rotors each side to rotate around the shaft, hopefully that will cut down on the vibrations, they were all over the place on the run up and only smoothed out when airborne, I think this has a lot of FUN potential once I get her sorted. I will go with the motor on a floating pod/boom on the top as well, to include rudder, elevator and differential brake action on the rotor for roll control

.
Those smart guys of the 1930's started it, my mkII. will just have a pitching boom with the fan on the front. How hard can it be??? Answers on the back of a £5 note to Al c/o the sand pit thanks. Cheers,

regards to all, Al

Norfolk Flyer · Nov 09, 2009, 05:17 AM

Al,
I'm a bit worried about your floating boom idea.
Assuming the motor is ahead of the CG and the elevator is behind, tilting the boom forwards will give DOWN thrust on the motor, and UP elevator. Just pondering over the implications of this.

The motor tipping down could also give the pilot a crew cut

Hope that my worries are unfounded, but still interesting to see the results.

Regards
John

rotorheid · Nov 09, 2009, 05:37 AM

Hi John,

Oh ! You are good mate.
I will be fitting restrainer lines to prevent the 'Crew Cut' and I was thinking of the boom assy with the rotors as the aeroplane, and the fuselage as a suspended battery/people pod. I think the 'neutral' boom position would be 10 deg nose up to prevent a forward roll over in pitch, thanks for the concern, we shall see what happens.
Cheers,
regards Al

imsofaman · Nov 09, 2009, 10:01 AM

Al,
Sorry I could not reply to your question on the strength of depron over balsa. I have a small profile gyro I made years ago that is pretty much indestructible due to the Depron glued onto both sides of the balsa.

The hop you did was amazing!!!

VERY promising. You will crack this cas very soon.

I have a question for you. I dont know the answer....but was pondering this. What do you think is better with this type of wing? A short coupling fuselage or a longer fuselage?

I really enjoyed seeing those wings spinning and float away nice and slow.

Dave

Gyrocopter · Nov 09, 2009, 11:35 AM

Al, That is so close to making a circuit and I do like the British Airways logo in the background, do you think BA will be converting their fleet to Cyclogyros?

Brilliant

Chas

pluriel · Nov 09, 2009, 12:41 PM

Nice flight Rotorheid! I love the music - it reminded me of "The End" by the Doors of all things. Good luck with the model development.

rotorheid · Nov 09, 2009, 04:25 PM

Hi Dave, Guys,

In answer to your question Dave; I think a longer fuselage will give more control authority due to the longer moments, that's one of the reasons I choose to go with the new MkII boom fuselage with the tail group further away from the main pivot, and to help balance the motor weight.
Looking at Bacogomez's RotoPlano he only uses rudder and throttle with a real short coupled fuze, but it works for him.

@ Gyrocopter, Heaven help us if B.A. use cyclogyros for the Middle East route, I don't think my heid could take the rattling for that long, hahaha.
They were kind enough to assist in the creation of our sports pitch many moons ago, hence the Logo.

@ Pluriel, I like Jim M and the Doors too, some brilliant sounds from that lost laddie, thanks for the kind remarks, I'll get stuck into it tomorrow, it's been a hectic return to work and V busy.
Cheers,
Regards to all, Al

Oct 28, 2009, 07:09 AM	#61
SafeLandings Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Stourport on Severn ,Worcestershire, United Kingdom Posts: 2,135	Al, Congratulations to the Happy Couple..looks like you had a great day. Regards Rich

Nov 07, 2009, 05:40 AM	#63
rotorheid This is my other autogyro! Join Date: May 2006 Location: Live in Inverness, Scotland, work away. Posts: 1,784	Love's young dream sets sail in the West, I head East, again. Hi Guys, We're back in the sand pit as of 06:00 MMT. ( Mongo Mean Time) this morning, jet lagged and all birled out after a fantastic time at home, thanks honey, you're the best. I'll get back up to speed in a few days once I get my stuff together, but first I have to get back into the work ethic again and that starts in 30 mins, I leave you with some halloween snaps, Cheers, Regards to all, Al Attached Thumbnails Roz and Scott as the Zombie Bride and Groom. 30.1 KB · Views: 32 Captain Mac, the flying Scotsman, Zombie pirate and Gyro pilot extrordinaire. Yo ho me lads and a bottle of Irn-Bru ! 28.3 KB · Views: 21 Ellie and I just chillin out after scaring all the wee kids, har har har! Lets eat the little one first! 32.9 KB · Views: 21 Last edited by rotorheid; Nov 07, 2009 at 05:55 AM. Reason: scary pics added.

Nov 08, 2009, 01:29 AM	#64
rotorheid This is my other autogyro! Join Date: May 2006 Location: Live in Inverness, Scotland, work away. Posts: 1,784	Baco-Liner Repaired and 1st. modification. Hi Guys, Many thanks for the comments, suggestions and kind remarks, my family send regards too. Bacogomez, An excellent video of the dynamics of the BL, I have repaired the broken through shaft of the rotor and mounted the motor with some downthrust to combat some of the 'pitch up' effect. I will attempt another flight in this configuration (without the use of a Safety net! ) with your flying technique reccomendations in mind. I had another idea to try, if I make a free pivoting motor pod with tailplane and elevator at the rear of the pod, and suspend the fuselage from the rotor shaft pylon, then it may be possible to have more control, it may need some fettling but I will give it a go in another version with a new rotor system. If anyone wonders about the strength and versatility of Depron over balsa, my impact tests show it to be superior so far. Cheers, regards to all Al Attached Thumbnails Ready for more flight testing. 21.6 KB · Views: 9 Neutral position. 21.8 KB · Views: 18 B.L. Mk II with all moving motor and elevator pod. 26.9 KB · Views: 12

Nov 09, 2009, 05:03 AM	#69
rotorheid This is my other autogyro! Join Date: May 2006 Location: Live in Inverness, Scotland, work away. Posts: 1,784	New three blade rotor vanes in works. Hi Guys, Yes lads, I would like to have got a longer flight in too, the previous 4 take off runs took it's toll of the outer head bearings, and the repaired shaft was not as good as the original, so I was happy to quit when I did, still learning. I will change the mode of rotation, I had the shaft rotating in the bearings, next I will just make the new three blade/vane rotors each side to rotate around the shaft, hopefully that will cut down on the vibrations, they were all over the place on the run up and only smoothed out when airborne, I think this has a lot of FUN potential once I get her sorted. I will go with the motor on a floating pod/boom on the top as well, to include rudder, elevator and differential brake action on the rotor for roll control . Those smart guys of the 1930's started it, my mkII. will just have a pitching boom with the fan on the front. How hard can it be??? Answers on the back of a £5 note to Al c/o the sand pit thanks. Cheers, regards to all, Al Attached Thumbnails Baco-Liner MkII. to this design. 28.9 KB · Views: 14 The original Cyclogyro of the 30's. 25.6 KB · Views: 17

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Oct 28, 2009, 08:48 AM	#62
imsofaman Viva Juan De La Cierva Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 4,809	Thanks for sharing the photos Al. They look so happy and your daughter is beautiful! Congrats!

Nov 08, 2009, 01:35 AM	#65
jodini Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Omaha Millard, Nebraska, United States Posts: 1,396	Looking good Al....and welcome back!

Nov 08, 2009, 07:45 PM	#67
jodini Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Omaha Millard, Nebraska, United States Posts: 1,396	Hope to see a longer flight Al. That thing just looks so funny flipping around like that...like a duck that was shot but stilll trying to fly!

Nov 09, 2009, 04:27 AM	#68
Norfolk Flyer Suck it and see Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Cromer, North Norfolk Coast, UK Posts: 379	Brilliant progress Al, I really like the way it flies so slowly. Maybe still a tad tail heavy? although you are the best judge of that. Waiting for the next video, hopefully of a longer flight. Regards John

Nov 09, 2009, 05:17 AM	#70
Norfolk Flyer Suck it and see Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Cromer, North Norfolk Coast, UK Posts: 379	Al, I'm a bit worried about your floating boom idea. Assuming the motor is ahead of the CG and the elevator is behind, tilting the boom forwards will give DOWN thrust on the motor, and UP elevator. Just pondering over the implications of this. The motor tipping down could also give the pilot a crew cut Hope that my worries are unfounded, but still interesting to see the results. Regards John

Nov 09, 2009, 05:37 AM	#71
rotorheid This is my other autogyro! Join Date: May 2006 Location: Live in Inverness, Scotland, work away. Posts: 1,784	Hi John, Oh ! You are good mate. I will be fitting restrainer lines to prevent the 'Crew Cut' and I was thinking of the boom assy with the rotors as the aeroplane, and the fuselage as a suspended battery/people pod. I think the 'neutral' boom position would be 10 deg nose up to prevent a forward roll over in pitch, thanks for the concern, we shall see what happens. Cheers, regards Al

Nov 09, 2009, 10:01 AM	#72
imsofaman Viva Juan De La Cierva Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 4,809	Al, Sorry I could not reply to your question on the strength of depron over balsa. I have a small profile gyro I made years ago that is pretty much indestructible due to the Depron glued onto both sides of the balsa. The hop you did was amazing!!! VERY promising. You will crack this cas very soon. I have a question for you. I dont know the answer....but was pondering this. What do you think is better with this type of wing? A short coupling fuselage or a longer fuselage? I really enjoyed seeing those wings spinning and float away nice and slow. Dave

Nov 09, 2009, 11:35 AM	#73
Gyrocopter Registered User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: In Bedfordshire, UK. Posts: 180	Al, That is so close to making a circuit and I do like the British Airways logo in the background, do you think BA will be converting their fleet to Cyclogyros? Brilliant Chas

Nov 09, 2009, 12:41 PM	#74
pluriel Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Durham, UK Posts: 129	Nice flight Rotorheid! I love the music - it reminded me of "The End" by the Doors of all things. Good luck with the model development.

Nov 09, 2009, 04:25 PM	#75
rotorheid This is my other autogyro! Join Date: May 2006 Location: Live in Inverness, Scotland, work away. Posts: 1,784	Hi Dave, Guys, In answer to your question Dave; I think a longer fuselage will give more control authority due to the longer moments, that's one of the reasons I choose to go with the new MkII boom fuselage with the tail group further away from the main pivot, and to help balance the motor weight. Looking at Bacogomez's RotoPlano he only uses rudder and throttle with a real short coupled fuze, but it works for him. @ Gyrocopter, Heaven help us if B.A. use cyclogyros for the Middle East route, I don't think my heid could take the rattling for that long, hahaha. They were kind enough to assist in the creation of our sports pitch many moons ago, hence the Logo. @ Pluriel, I like Jim M and the Doors too, some brilliant sounds from that lost laddie, thanks for the kind remarks, I'll get stuck into it tomorrow, it's been a hectic return to work and V busy. Cheers, Regards to all, Al