Al's Cyclogyro The 'Baco-Liner' Mk.II *2nd Video Up*

rotorheid · Oct 13, 2009, 07:04 AM

Hi Guys,

Things are steady here, with only the occaisional touch on the rudder to keep us on a true course, all current projects are being attended to.
But what of the future??
Well here's one I've been looking at for a long time, The Cyclogyro of the 1930's, around the same time that Autogyros really lifted off.

http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEU.../cyclogyro.htm
and other info,
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchi...0-%200958.html
look in the left margin for pages you want to view, double click and you get the reloaded full size.

I plan to start this build by the end of the year, God willing.

My ideas are taken from a variety of sources, I thank you gentlemen,
" For those that went before in the dark and lit the way, that I may follow.
A typical " What if ? " Inter-City Airtransporter of the past, in the colours of Zandair, a mythical Scottish island hopper service based in Skye, the Highlands.
I'll be using the usual suspect materials but including CD discs, clear plastic film, Depron and balsa, should be fun. here is my basic start sketch and some other good gen for you, my version has only airflow driving the rotors.
Cheers,

Regards to all, Al

Boneswamped · Oct 14, 2009, 12:36 AM

What the

? I'm very certain you'll make an interesting and entertaining project out of whatever that thing is Al.

I'll be looking forward to the maiden.
-Mike

Norfolk Flyer · Oct 14, 2009, 05:03 AM

You never cease to amaze Al. Good luck with the build, and if it never leaves the ground, you can use it as a combined harvester.

Regards
John

rotorheid · Oct 16, 2009, 05:22 AM

Hi John, Guys,

"Good luck with the build, and if it never leaves the ground, you can use it as a combined harvester. "
Oh it will leave the ground alright, even if I have to strap it to a

huge rocket!

Combined harvester, yes I was going to call it the 'Threasher' but it's now the 'Baco-Liner' , named for an Argentinian modeler of the same name, Snr Baco, and not the cooking foil made of aluuuminniiuuum. Here's a link to some of his work with Aydlett Rotors. He was in turn inspired by the late Roy L Clough Jr. and his work with Flettner rotors.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_42..._1/key_/tm.htm
Some cool video links there too.
Here are the progress pics to date, I hope to have a test Flight before I leave for my next home time on 21st. Oct, so onwards and upwards? Cheers,

regards to all, Al

jodini · Oct 16, 2009, 08:38 AM

Al,
I'm facinated by this project. I never seen one fly till I started to do some youtube searching and found this:

FanWing, Wirolot "waÅ¼ka rotacyjna", rotorplane rc plane, first flight (1 min 2 sec)

jodini · Oct 16, 2009, 08:42 AM

There's also this...called the fanwing. Sort of the same concept but looks like it's more stable.

FanWing UAV (1 min 40 sec)

rotorheid · Oct 16, 2009, 10:09 AM

Hi Joe,

Thanks for the links, not seen those before, just the ones from Argentina, Cheers,

regards Al

rotorheid · Oct 16, 2009, 05:25 PM

Hi Guys,

A bit more to show, nothing special, just the motor mount with trial fit and the main wheels, I'm not too happy with them in the moment so may change the angle, too much toe in, a couple of happy snaps for you.
Cheers,

regards to all, Al

Boneswamped · Oct 16, 2009, 05:34 PM

Hi Al,
I'm completely ignorant to these types of aircraft. Is there any distinctive flight handling characteristic of these type aircraft? Is there an advantage over a standard fixed wing? Do they have capabilities that are better than either fixed wing, or autogyro? I suspect this type aircraft is a case of why did the chicken cross the road.

In any event your build is already looking great! I don't know how you build so quickly, but keep it up.
Regards,
-Mike

dgoslee · Oct 16, 2009, 07:17 PM

Sometime around 1980-1982 RC Modeler Magazine has an article about a engineering student who was doing a project involving rotor planes. He called the aero phenomenom the "Magnus Rotor Effect". He first built a glider with rotating wings that I think he dropped from a mother plane. The wings rotated about the spar tube, and had anti-rotation pins hooked to a servo. He started out gliding normally, and then pulled the pins. He also built a powered one, but I don't remember if it flew.

If you cut a strip of postcard paper (for example 1/2" wide x 6" long), and drop it from a horizontal position with a little backspin, it will autorotate nicely in a steep glide path.

If you take a 12" wooden ruler and throw it overhand horizontally with a wicked backspin like a baseball, it will climb out and go quite far.

Dan

rotorheid · Oct 17, 2009, 01:07 AM

Hi Don,

Thanks for that information on the 'Magnus Effect, there are so many pieces to the puzzle sometimes. Just been beefing up the head supports, now it holds the carbon spar with just enough tightness to reduce flex at the tips.
I will make the two rotors next, these will be the hardest part of the build, all unknown areas, "Here be dragons" or "Gentlemen, we are now off map."
Must press on, Cheers,

Regards Al,

Hephaistos · Oct 17, 2009, 03:20 AM

Hello...........

Al, You never stop to find amazing new ways to have some happy autorotation. Go on, I am very curious about the first tests!

BTW, as the question why there are no real-size aircrafts using this principles popped up, I remember the FLETTNER-rotor, which is very similar.........

FLETTNER had the idea of using a vertical cylinder rotating around itself as a sail for a boat. He has build a small model, prooved that it worked, and then he has build a real-size ship. The tests have been very encouraging, and the idea pops up from time to time again. But now to the problems-side-of-view: Imagine a ship, 30 meters long, two cylinders of 3 meters diameter, mounted on the deck like a mast, 20 meters high, revolving with 500 RPM. Imagine the bearing-loads, the problems of stress and vibration and then You know why.

The FLETTNER-rotors will work on a small RC-model. The things get smaller, the stress is reduced, and if the bearings run only 100 hours, You are satisfied. Perhaps this is the only solution of getting an aircraft airborn that works better on scale models than for the real-sized ones.

Bye
Mike

rotorheid · Oct 17, 2009, 06:09 AM

Hi Mike, Guys,

Yes I'm hoping that we are within the critical size for this to work.
Build is progressing, 1/2 the Rotor System is done,
I could advertise on the revolving blade like those old garage forecourt sign's, " Eat at Joe's, or Drink Beer" It span up very well in a zypher of wind.
Some pics to ponder, more laters, Cheers,

Regards to all, Al

imsofaman · Oct 17, 2009, 12:02 PM

Totally cool Al!!! I enjoy so much, when I see you are on to a new project. I really like the Cabin of this aircraft. Bang up job so far. Looking forward to the progress.

Do you sleep and eat at some point???

Dave

dgoslee · Oct 17, 2009, 03:27 PM

A NASA paper on calculating lift of a rotating cylinder:

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/cyl.html

An article on rotor ships:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotor_ship

This is a bomb that rotates and glides, exactly like I described cutting a piece of card paper and dropping it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flettner_rotor_bomblet

Dan

Oct 13, 2009, 07:04 AM	#1
rotorheid This is my other autogyro! Join Date: May 2006 Location: Live in Inverness, Scotland, work away. Posts: 1,784	Al's Cyclogyro The 'Baco-Liner' Mk.II 2nd Video Up Hi Guys, Things are steady here, with only the occaisional touch on the rudder to keep us on a true course, all current projects are being attended to. But what of the future?? Well here's one I've been looking at for a long time, The Cyclogyro of the 1930's, around the same time that Autogyros really lifted off. http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEU.../cyclogyro.htm and other info, http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchi...0-%200958.html look in the left margin for pages you want to view, double click and you get the reloaded full size. I plan to start this build by the end of the year, God willing. My ideas are taken from a variety of sources, I thank you gentlemen, " For those that went before in the dark and lit the way, that I may follow. A typical " What if ? " Inter-City Airtransporter of the past, in the colours of Zandair, a mythical Scottish island hopper service based in Skye, the Highlands. I'll be using the usual suspect materials but including CD discs, clear plastic film, Depron and balsa, should be fun. here is my basic start sketch and some other good gen for you, my version has only airflow driving the rotors. Cheers, Regards to all, Al Attached Thumbnails The Concept, Powered horizontaly rotating blades, that provide thrust and lift vectorally. 25.6 KB · Views: 76 The theory and mechanics. (nb.Compulsory Fight Captains hat. Looks like Donald MacDonald of the Clan MacDonald at the wheel.) 34.4 KB · Views: 46 The dream, I bet it wasn't 39" pitch seats in this clanker, " Another gin with your dinner Sir?".. "I'll send for the steward shall I?" 21.3 KB · Views: 36 The rotary mind thinks it, and knarley hands scribble it down. 68.3 KB · Views: 40 Zandair's island hopper or badly drawn Rotogyro buggy thingy. 21.6 KB · Views: 26 Proposed airflow powered rotating blade lift system, {after rotating cylinder/Aydlett/Savonius rotor theories.} 14.7 KB · Views: 34 Last edited by rotorheid; Yesterday at 12:54 PM. Reason: Pun ctuation.

Oct 16, 2009, 05:22 AM	#4
rotorheid This is my other autogyro! Join Date: May 2006 Location: Live in Inverness, Scotland, work away. Posts: 1,784	Zandair's "Baco-liner" takes shape. Hi John, Guys, "Good luck with the build, and if it never leaves the ground, you can use it as a combined harvester. " Oh it will leave the ground alright, even if I have to strap it to a huge rocket! Combined harvester, yes I was going to call it the 'Threasher' but it's now the 'Baco-Liner' , named for an Argentinian modeler of the same name, Snr Baco, and not the cooking foil made of aluuuminniiuuum. Here's a link to some of his work with Aydlett Rotors. He was in turn inspired by the late Roy L Clough Jr. and his work with Flettner rotors. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_42..._1/key_/tm.htm Some cool video links there too. Here are the progress pics to date, I hope to have a test Flight before I leave for my next home time on 21st. Oct, so onwards and upwards? Cheers, regards to all, Al Attached Thumbnails Snr. Baco, of Codoy Cruz, Mendoza. at the C.A.M. Club de Aeromodelismo Mendoza, with his Aydlet Roto Plano, thank you sir. 24.0 KB · Views: 89 All from one sheet of depron, so far. 26.1 KB · Views: 38 Balsa and foam sandwich technique. 19.9 KB · Views: 33 Retro airliner look. 17.4 KB · Views: 27 Plenty of space inside, all radio gear will be under the floor. 18.5 KB · Views: 23 All windows glazed with PET sheet. 19.8 KB · Views: 33 Side view. 18.6 KB · Views: 29 Tail group will be three finned, centre rudder and tailplane with large elevator. 20.6 KB · Views: 32 Some daft old bloke held it for the picture. :) 25.7 KB · Views: 54 Last edited by rotorheid; Oct 17, 2009 at 12:52 AM.

Oct 16, 2009, 05:25 PM	#8
rotorheid This is my other autogyro! Join Date: May 2006 Location: Live in Inverness, Scotland, work away. Posts: 1,784	Wheels and motor fitting. Hi Guys, A bit more to show, nothing special, just the motor mount with trial fit and the main wheels, I'm not too happy with them in the moment so may change the angle, too much toe in, a couple of happy snaps for you. Cheers, regards to all, Al Attached Thumbnails 12x6 on a HK special, 3 or 4 cells available. 20.6 KB · Views: 23 Wheels don't look as good as they could be? 20.3 KB · Views: 30 Overhead view. 32.3 KB · Views: 28

Oct 16, 2009, 07:17 PM	#10
dgoslee Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Seaford, DE Posts: 724	Magnus Rotor Sometime around 1980-1982 RC Modeler Magazine has an article about a engineering student who was doing a project involving rotor planes. He called the aero phenomenom the "Magnus Rotor Effect". He first built a glider with rotating wings that I think he dropped from a mother plane. The wings rotated about the spar tube, and had anti-rotation pins hooked to a servo. He started out gliding normally, and then pulled the pins. He also built a powered one, but I don't remember if it flew. If you cut a strip of postcard paper (for example 1/2" wide x 6" long), and drop it from a horizontal position with a little backspin, it will autorotate nicely in a steep glide path. If you take a 12" wooden ruler and throw it overhand horizontally with a wicked backspin like a baseball, it will climb out and go quite far. Dan

Oct 17, 2009, 01:07 AM	#11
rotorheid This is my other autogyro! Join Date: May 2006 Location: Live in Inverness, Scotland, work away. Posts: 1,784	Aydlett, Flettner, Magnus, Tumble wing, Fan Wing et al. Hi Don, Thanks for that information on the 'Magnus Effect, there are so many pieces to the puzzle sometimes. Just been beefing up the head supports, now it holds the carbon spar with just enough tightness to reduce flex at the tips. I will make the two rotors next, these will be the hardest part of the build, all unknown areas, "Here be dragons" or "Gentlemen, we are now off map." Must press on, Cheers, Regards Al, Attached Thumbnails The 4 bearing head, the camera has distorted the perspective in the image, honest mate, it's not that wonky. To be trimmed up after. 16.1 KB · Views: 33

Oct 14, 2009, 12:36 AM	#2
Boneswamped Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: DeRidder LA. Posts: 874	What the ? I'm very certain you'll make an interesting and entertaining project out of whatever that thing is Al. I'll be looking forward to the maiden. -Mike

Oct 14, 2009, 05:03 AM	#3
Norfolk Flyer Suck it and see Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Cromer, North Norfolk Coast, UK Posts: 378	You never cease to amaze Al. Good luck with the build, and if it never leaves the ground, you can use it as a combined harvester. Regards John

Oct 16, 2009, 10:09 AM	#7
rotorheid This is my other autogyro! Join Date: May 2006 Location: Live in Inverness, Scotland, work away. Posts: 1,784	Hi Joe, Thanks for the links, not seen those before, just the ones from Argentina, Cheers, regards Al

Oct 16, 2009, 05:34 PM	#9
Boneswamped Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: DeRidder LA. Posts: 874	Hi Al, I'm completely ignorant to these types of aircraft. Is there any distinctive flight handling characteristic of these type aircraft? Is there an advantage over a standard fixed wing? Do they have capabilities that are better than either fixed wing, or autogyro? I suspect this type aircraft is a case of why did the chicken cross the road. In any event your build is already looking great! I don't know how you build so quickly, but keep it up. Regards, -Mike

Oct 17, 2009, 03:20 AM	#12
Hephaistos Tannenzäpfle-Terminator Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Baden-Baden, Germany Posts: 396	Hello........... Al, You never stop to find amazing new ways to have some happy autorotation. Go on, I am very curious about the first tests! BTW, as the question why there are no real-size aircrafts using this principles popped up, I remember the FLETTNER-rotor, which is very similar......... FLETTNER had the idea of using a vertical cylinder rotating around itself as a sail for a boat. He has build a small model, prooved that it worked, and then he has build a real-size ship. The tests have been very encouraging, and the idea pops up from time to time again. But now to the problems-side-of-view: Imagine a ship, 30 meters long, two cylinders of 3 meters diameter, mounted on the deck like a mast, 20 meters high, revolving with 500 RPM. Imagine the bearing-loads, the problems of stress and vibration and then You know why. The FLETTNER-rotors will work on a small RC-model. The things get smaller, the stress is reduced, and if the bearings run only 100 hours, You are satisfied. Perhaps this is the only solution of getting an aircraft airborn that works better on scale models than for the real-sized ones. Bye Mike

Oct 17, 2009, 06:09 AM	#13
rotorheid This is my other autogyro! Join Date: May 2006 Location: Live in Inverness, Scotland, work away. Posts: 1,784	Hi Mike, Guys, Yes I'm hoping that we are within the critical size for this to work. Build is progressing, 1/2 the Rotor System is done, I could advertise on the revolving blade like those old garage forecourt sign's, " Eat at Joe's, or Drink Beer" It span up very well in a zypher of wind. Some pics to ponder, more laters, Cheers, Regards to all, Al Attached Thumbnails Depron paddle/wing/rotor blanks being cut. 18.4 KB · Views: 23 Left hand pair going onto the rotor spar. 21.2 KB · Views: 25 Edge cuffs? fitted, this works ok, I tried it outside. 19.7 KB · Views: 34 Rotor will be closer to fuselage, impression only. 19.3 KB · Views: 48 Main wheels will be done like these. 17.8 KB · Views: 48 Carbon tube leg and glass fibre axle, 2 x twin units, to be mounted on a stub wing. 28.1 KB · Views: 27

Oct 17, 2009, 12:02 PM	#14
imsofaman Viva Juan De La Cierva Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 4,807	Totally cool Al!!! I enjoy so much, when I see you are on to a new project. I really like the Cabin of this aircraft. Bang up job so far. Looking forward to the progress. Do you sleep and eat at some point??? Dave

Oct 17, 2009, 03:27 PM	#15
dgoslee Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Seaford, DE Posts: 724	A NASA paper on calculating lift of a rotating cylinder: http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/cyl.html An article on rotor ships: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotor_ship This is a bomb that rotates and glides, exactly like I described cutting a piece of card paper and dropping it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flettner_rotor_bomblet Dan

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Al's Ultimate Raptor meets the "box"...	GGoodrum	Electric Heli Talk	17	May 17, 2004 04:24 PM
what's your most embarrassing build tool?	Dunqun	Slope	7	Apr 28, 2004 05:10 PM
Earl Stahl's GEE BEE Sportster build (E-conversion)	Arthur_GA	Sport Planes	3	Mar 31, 2004 11:06 AM
F/S HYPER DLG - Custom Build, Poly, 2 Channel	glider34	Aircraft - Sailplanes (FS/W)	8	Oct 08, 2003 04:07 PM
Did you help me at Al's Hobby Shop in Elmhurst?	JoeRC	Parkflyers	5	Aug 06, 2003 10:37 PM