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Old May 19, 2012, 07:57 PM
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Nicely done Dionysus!
Your landing gear is holding up well, obviously due to your smooth landings. My FF F86 had similar plastic wheels which ended up being replaced with the HTG Mig 15 legs and wheels. My F100 has the same with some modifications to make shorter and stronger.
Mine is now 4.0kg with 7S 5800mah (4.2kg with fuel tanks). Have you had a chance to weigh yours? I am curious to see what the glass added. Mine is EPO and I assume yours is EPS...
Keep up the good work.
Cheers Eric
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Old May 19, 2012, 08:03 PM
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Wow, lots of great jet's. Good landing on that f-100...
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Old May 20, 2012, 09:06 AM
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6S vs. 7S with XK4074-B-1400 in CS9012

Numbers in for 7S as installed in my FF F-100.

6S 2.25kg thrust 77amps/1670watts
7S 3.00kg thrust 98amps/2400watts

I was surprised that 1 extra cell produced .75kg / 1.65pounds more thrust!

The 12 guage wires handle it but do get slightly warm, The 5.5mm bullet connectors stay cool.
Cheers Eric
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Old May 20, 2012, 05:20 PM
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I guess it moved the 4074 into a better area of its operation. Plus the fan might have an optimal range (curve) too.
I have had a few planes (EDF's) where moving up just one cell made a much bigger difference than just the 20% volts increase. (eg 4S to 5S). So things (motor/fan) must just have moved into that better area of operation (the aircraft's ducting too I guess).

The CS12 specs say 45k rpm (umm, would explode long before then!!?). And 2.7Kg is only at 31k rpm area. So you would think/hope the optimal area of operation is more towards 40k rpm. Or at least 35k area. Not that I really think anyone overly designed anything highly specific in this exact fan.... (a mish mash clone?)
But anyway, it is possible that if 35k RPM is the optimal area, that is well over 3kg thrust.... and thus systems with 2.2Kg to 2.5Kg are below the optimal area and somewhat wasteful of energy.... so you need a nice powerful motor, to get it to that 35k RPM area. Or... just run it at the lower power area you want, which might be more wasteful of energy.

1400kv... 7S... even 8S.... will do that rpm closer to, or in, the 35k area. By 8S a 4074 sized motor is probably not able to do that very easily (or fully really), but is still much like most people's EDF setups that are driving motors well over their true abilities anyway. eg Say a 4099-1400 (LOL) could truly drive it properly on 8S to the 35k rpm area (prob 4Kg thrust by then).
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Old May 20, 2012, 07:46 PM
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The XK4074 is an "overkill" motor for 6S but I'm happy with it in planes in the 3.2kg range. I'm glad it is versatile enough to handle 2400watts for my porky planes (F100 and Mig15). On 8s I suspect the fan may fail unless some gluing of the blades is done as well as fine dynamic balancing. I did crazy glue my blades together as a precaution and so far so good.
I wish HK would get them back in stock so I can finish putting my F-16 together as the motor/fan was robbed for this plane.
Cheers
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Old May 21, 2012, 01:47 AM
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Dionysus your F-100 sounds even better in the presence of turbine jets at a rally - just like a turbine with a hush kit installed especially next to the A-10 with a more traditional electric sound. Awesome! You flew it great, really fantastic showing especially in that wind.

The first jet on the video is a reaction 54, I had one of those (I sold it a few years back when I realized for me having 2 turbine jets was too much work to maintain and too much $$ sitting around). But it was my first RC turbine jet - flew great, almost like a huge 3D jet powered pattern plane with that wing. I didn't have the ARF I had the balsa built up one.
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Old May 21, 2012, 02:34 AM
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Australia, NSW, Hillsborough
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4stripes View Post
Numbers in for 7S as installed in my FF F-100.

6S 2.25kg thrust 77amps/1670watts
7S 3.00kg thrust 98amps/2400watts

I was surprised that 1 extra cell produced .75kg / 1.65pounds more thrust!

The 12 guage wires handle it but do get slightly warm, The 5.5mm bullet connectors stay cool.
Cheers Eric
Hey 4Sripes
Do you have a thrust tube on that setup?. If not your doing pretty good. I only got 3.14 kg on 8S Cs 90mm 12 blade, HET 700-68-1400, in f100 117 amps,3118.6Watts( volts did drop to 3.31 per cell though, so my nano 4500, may not be up to the task)
Steve
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Old May 21, 2012, 03:50 AM
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But all that matters is that 2400w gave 3.0Kg.... versus your 3100w giving 3Kg approx. It doesn't matter what volts, or how lousy the batteries were.... they gave the 3100W.
Better batteries in that exact same system could do higher Watts and thrust... but that is irrelevant to a comparison like this anyway.

But that is a huge difference.... 700w more to get no better thrust anyway!!
The 2400W for 3.0Kg seems about right, even if in a plane - I would expect the F-100 is actually a good ducting system.
I would be worried about 3100W only giving 3.0Kg..... that seems like a LOT of power is going up in smoke... errr, heat.
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Old May 21, 2012, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by heliclown View Post
Hey 4Sripes
Do you have a thrust tube on that setup?. If not your doing pretty good. I only got 3.14 kg on 8S Cs 90mm 12 blade, HET 700-68-1400, in f100 117 amps,3118.6Watts( volts did drop to 3.31 per cell though, so my nano 4500, may not be up to the task)
Steve
Hi Steve
I don't have a proper thrust tube , just a slight "choke" at the nozzle to reduce the diameter to 75mm.
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Old May 21, 2012, 08:18 AM
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United States, TX, Grand Prairie
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Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
Hey fellow HUN drivers, flew my HUN at the Austin Jet Rally, it was WINDY. But to see how I handled the cross wind and gusty conditions you can see my landing here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvyQ5cTqjG8

Go to 08:51 in the video. Not very fun flying, but it was a good time anyway.

Also, a columnist from Flying Models was there and my plane will be in that coverage, so yay for the Fly Fly HUN!
Glad to see this!! I couldn't make this one, was going to fly at my local club but winds were gusting at 30mph...thought it would be the same down south but I see it wasn't as bad.

Are you still going to the Waco rally?

regards
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Old May 21, 2012, 08:20 AM
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United States, TX, Grand Prairie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4stripes View Post
The XK4074 is an "overkill" motor for 6S but I'm happy with it in planes in the 3.2kg range. I'm glad it is versatile enough to handle 2400watts for my porky planes (F100 and Mig15). On 8s I suspect the fan may fail unless some gluing of the blades is done as well as fine dynamic balancing. I did crazy glue my blades together as a precaution and so far so good.
I wish HK would get them back in stock so I can finish putting my F-16 together as the motor/fan was robbed for this plane.
Cheers
I've flow the CS90 on 8s with the 1400kv 4074 motor a couple of times...it'll hold up...get some cooling holes in it and it's fine

I think the max power for the fan is 4400 watts...but there are few who are going to be flying any where near that wattage
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Old May 21, 2012, 11:26 AM
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France, Burgandy, Dijon
Joined Jun 2010
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Midifan PRO & ARC 3665-1

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4stripes View Post
Numbers in for 7S as installed in my FF F-100.

6S 2.25kg thrust 77amps/1670watts
7S 3.00kg thrust 98amps/2400watts

I was surprised that 1 extra cell produced .75kg / 1.65pounds more thrust!

The 12 guage wires handle it but do get slightly warm, The 5.5mm bullet connectors stay cool.
Cheers Eric
Hello 4stripes

I bought a chassis dynamometer to measures trust (0 to 10 kg)

Here is the vue of Phoenix ICE 100 extraction of my test ARC 3665-1 with the Midifan PRO - i use 4212 mAh and Lipo temp was 51.6°C (zippy 6s 5000 30C - Too warm for me - i will try the Turnigy nano-tech 5000 45-90C or Hyperion 35C) - ESC 42°C - Motor 65°C - Trust on this configuration : 3.365 kg and 2.7 kg in the end (2130 W - 20,2V) - Timing: LOW - PWM Rate: 8Khz - Temp of Air was 29°C ....

We can see that for 2500W, we have 39567 rpm and 3,365 kg thrust mesurement
The lipos seem to hold the dump but I really advise to use 45 C or more for these power

MADISONMaster
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Old May 21, 2012, 03:48 PM
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United States, CA, Palmdale
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Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
That is quite a project Bill, I'll check in to see how it turns out!

Kelvin, you are correct, and JH has an awesome set up, 10lbs of thrust on the 90mm! But it's $500! The fan is $73 and is no doubt worth it, maybe if I need more and have something worth spending the extra cash on I'll go with them.


Now remember I said I would try my luck at the burnt rear aluminum section? The colors don’t look right when you take a picture with florescent light at night, some are bleached out and others distorted, but you get the idea. My plane has what I call Stage Make-up, it looks good from a distance. So it’s a little more exaggerated, stand way back scale!

I just use electrical tape to mask with, I’m not spraying much paint at all so there is no over spray issues. I went over it with a mixture of silver and black to highlight the panels. Then some yellow brown, next some blue and finish with some Metallic purple. We’ll see how it looks on picture day outside!
You nailed it that looks perfect !
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Old May 21, 2012, 06:06 PM
MYC
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Madison,

45c... OR some packs that arent lying about their capability Your numbers and Ohms Law say that you are drawing 106-107Amps. A 30C 5000Mah pack should of course put out 150amps but Zippys are known to stretch the numbers. I'd like to see what your setup would do on a 30C GensAce... If you were closer I'd offer one of mine
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Old May 22, 2012, 11:50 AM
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France, Burgandy, Dijon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MYC View Post
45c... OR some packs that arent lying about their capability Your numbers and Ohms Law say that you are drawing 106-107Amps. A 30C 5000Mah pack should of course put out 150amps but Zippys are known to stretch the numbers. I'd like to see what your setup would do on a 30C GensAce... If you were closer I'd offer one of mine
Thank you for the proposal MYC - if I make a passage to New York , why not make a take off with the F100 from Edgewood Ave ( field of Nasequake Middle School) or the place of Long beach Town Park !!....
I received the 2x3S 45C 5000mAh Turnigy nanotech and thinks doing tests soon to see their temperature
The Chinese lipos are cheap but under very intensive tend to heat and causes their destruction (internal resistance too high....)

MADISONMaster
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