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Old Mar 15, 2012, 01:38 AM
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Winston Hills, Sydney
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Very nice video and build Dionysus.
Your workmanship is excellent.
I just bought the F100 last week (EPO Version) and haven't started building yet.
Have decided to go with the Thunderbirds scheme and Callie is making the graphics for me at the moment.
Just wondering if you or any others have any thoughts on what I'm thinking of doing.
I'm thinking I may glass it using lightweight cloth and WBPU resin. then using Flite-Metal
on top to get that nice metallic look.
I know that its probably a bit over the top for a foam model but it seems like a real nice flier and looks great when she has makeup on.
Thinking of doing some of your mods too, such as flaps,airbrake and ParkFlier's cockpit and nose fix.
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Old Mar 15, 2012, 04:39 AM
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South Africa, Free State, Sasolburg
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Hi,
I dropped the leading edge by 20mm and raised the trailing edge by 20mm. Just cut the wings of using a hack saw blade, sanded a bit, and re-attach with epoxy. I made a new forward spar witch extend into the wings and a new spar just forward of the wheel wells.
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Old Mar 15, 2012, 06:23 AM
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McQueeney TX
Joined Oct 2005
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Thanks Eddie, I'll keep you posted on the nose gear, this week we are having some nasty weather, so I'm hoping I can fly Sunday. Initially I did not like the slop in the ChangeSun nose gear anyway, the Hobby King gear look much better.

You are right erh7771, I got my numbers mixed up! The 1200kv motor will put out about 2200 watts on 8s. Not much of an improvement over my current set up, the motor I have in my Hun now is working pretty good.

Thanks pauljohnston! Glad you liked my vid too. Good luck with your build, I'm not sure if you could apply flight metal, never tried it. It would depend on the pressure needed to lay it down I guess. Also EPO foam is not easy to work with. I would skip the flaps, they are really not needed, but the air brake is really cool.

Thanks jacojet, please post your flight results with that mod, I'm very curious!
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Old Mar 15, 2012, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pauljohnston View Post
I just bought the F100 last week (EPO Version) and haven't started building yet.
Have decided to go with the Thunderbirds scheme and Callie is making the graphics for me at the moment.
Just wondering if you or any others have any thoughts on what I'm thinking of doing.
I'm thinking I may glass it using lightweight cloth and WBPU resin. then using Flite-Metal
EPO is good for flying it as an EPO airframe. If you want that many mods go with EPS, it accepts glass easy, is much lighter, and is better suited for modifications with glass. Flite Metal MUST have a very hard surface as you have to burnish it and cut it into position. It will crinkle and look very bad compared to paint on an EPO surface. Since EPO by definition is soft and plyable like firm rubber it is not the best surface for Flite Metal even with some sort of glass over the top of it the surface will still be rather plyable. The Flite Metal will crinkle. Paint is your best bet. See my blog on my F-100 for a link to a thread on foamie paint jobs for metallic finishes on one of the last posts that may give you some ideas. Most importantly have lots of FUN in your build!
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Old Mar 15, 2012, 05:44 PM
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Winston Hills, Sydney
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Thanks guys,
Unfortunately I already have the EPO version so I have to work with it.
Looks like flite-metal is out then, nevermind paint it will be.
I'll checkout your blog Eddie and see what can be done.
As you say it all about having fun.
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Old Mar 15, 2012, 10:58 PM
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Don't feel like you made a mistake buying EPO. Honestly, EPO is pretty trouble free and actually better if you plan to fly the jet "as is" or make fewer mods to it. Structural mods are just fine with EPO, stuff like adding gear doors, adding a rudder, etc - no problem, very easy to do and EPO is easy to work with in that regard. It's just things like glass finishes, big things like chopping the fuse down in length, blending new additions in - those sorts of things are more of a pain with EPO. I wanted to do these bigger mods and wanted a hard glass finish that I could custom paint and detail like my fiberglass jets so the lighter weight, easier to sand EPS airframe was a better starting point for me.

So, if you mainly want to fly and not spent tons of hours messing around... and just want to add a little bling to the paint job with Callie Graphics, making the jet your own creation while maybe making a few small nips and cuts here and there for structural mods... well then EPO is the better choice for that. It's very "plug and play" and a whole lot more durable and better in a "bare foam with paint" format than EPS is.
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 04:00 AM
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Winston Hills, Sydney
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thanks Eddie for those encouraging words.
To be honest I don't know how much messing around I want to do.
Yes airbrake, the custom cockpit and nose job.I pretty much always end up
glassing my foamies sometimes with mixed results. I've always used the glass cloth and water based polyurthane method never the epoxy resin way so I've been thinking about trying that out to see how it goes. Do you see much of a difference using either?
I've got a couple of full composite models, Jet Teng L39, Eflite F86 and Proedf F16 and I like the nice hard glossy shells that they have.
Does the resin glassed foam result in a hard shell?
That was what I was hoping it would do then I would have flite-metaled it.
Still guess I gotta watch the weight too as I'm going to be using the ChangeSun 12blade EDF and a lot of people have said that they are nice sound but not very quick.
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 12:21 PM
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You are probably aware of all this but just in case, Keith Sparks has a nice plastic nose fairing for a stock fuselage that works and looks much nicer than the one that comes with the kit. You might be able to find one of the Skygate (?) 2 seat canopies like the one used by Dionysus that looks nice, but the stock one is OK too. Keith Sparks also sells a single seater mod.

As far as glassing - here is my technique:

For the epoxy resin vs. water based poly urethane debate, I have built many airplanes made of both foam and balsa using both water based polyurethane and epoxy over glass cloth and also Japanese Tissue. My favorite method after using the many tried is West Systems Laminating Epoxy Resin and the appropriate hardener based on the expected working temperature, and glass cloth. I thin the pre mixed epoxy with an equal volume of denatured alcohol to get it very thin. I will mix the epoxy resin in a plastic paint mixing cup and wear latex gloves and also wear safety glasses for splash if I'm mixing a lot - this stuff is bad for you no joke, take precautions. I lay the pre cut glass cloth (.7 ounce for a light weight job like the F-100) over the pre cleaned subject parts (to remove small dust and debris I vaccuum it), and brush the dry glass cloth over the part with a dry brush to create some static cling to the cloth and part. Then with a cheap foam brush from Home Depot I dip that into my thin resin mixture and paint over the cloth. I set it aside over night and the next day it is very hard and strong and ready for a quick go over with 320 grit wet to remove the edges of the dry glass that did not cover the part (the extra cloth is sanded off at the edges and just falls off, don't feel you have to sand into the part to do this). Also small gooky bits of hardened debris and high spots get knocked down. This is not a final sanding, you don't want to cut into the cloth, just light sanding for now. Then I do the other side up with glass cloth and resin, and leave it to cure. Same deal the following day, then I clean the part (wing, fuse, etc) well and spray it all down with Krylon prmer. Krylon primer will melt foam if you flood bare foam with it but over sealed foam and glass it is just fine, but go with lighter coats so you don't tempt fate through pin holes. But it always works for me. The dry primer (in 5 minutes) shows all the open weave and pits on the surface. One more coat to partially and even fully fill the weave with more primer. Don;t worry, the primer will mostly be sanded off in weight - the low spots int he weave will keep primer but primer is way lighter than epoxy resin or polyurethane, it's a light weight finish technique as long as you sand most of it off. Then I sand the whole part down wet 320 grit, get dirty, and you'll be working for a while. The surface will get smooth but likely there will still be areas of open weave (low spots) and pin holes. Those get filled with red auto putty and a credit card like plastic spreader. Go very light - just enough o fill the weave, you don't want to give yourself more sanding than required. That get's sanded down quickly with 400 grit wet (not perfect) and then I spray another coat of primer to cover all that and the extra low spots left. That get's sanded down, again, 400 grit wet, not too harshly so as to not cut into the under laying cloth, and now the part looks horrible straight on but at an angle wet it is baby smooth. A mess of white glass weave, gray and red spots (primer and putty). But believe me when you are finished it's baby smooth when wet and from the side. If I want a show finish I fill any other indentations with putty and primer and repeat. But essentially the first time it's pretty much finished and ready for paint. Even though I used a lot of primer, very little in terms of total weight is left on the part when it's ready to paint. I don't paint over a solid primer surface, that's too heavy for me and I've never needed to do that in my experience over glass.

This winter I used a slightly "faster/hotter" hardener and even in the cold it set up pretty fast. (laminating resin has a working life of about an hour to three hours before it starts to get thicker, you need that time to work and for the resin to allow the glass to lay perfectly flat and not create pools of goop and high spots) As the epoxy get's harder to work and paint with I add small amounts of extra denatured alcohol and re mix and finish. Too thick of resin is very hard to spread thin and light and you will pull on the cloth/snag it and make high spots that later become imperfections and hard to deal with in sanding except for the solution of adding putty and filler and that is work plus weight. So thin resin painted on works best and in the end, even with soak up into foam, is way lighter than thick resin.
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 05:21 PM
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South Africa, Free State, Sasolburg
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search for deluxmaterials, they have a product called eze-cote. It is a water-based alternative to epoxy resin and dry just as hard, I have had great success using it and is way easier than epoxy, not to mention the clean-up. It will take auto paint just like epoxy and is lighter. The only problem is, it is hard to find. I have to order from singa hobby suplies. Oh, and it dries quickly, about 30min, I can cover a complete model in half a day!
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 06:19 PM
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McQueeney TX
Joined Oct 2005
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Pitot Tube

Just a little detail update for you all. Easy little mod to add the Pitot Tube, the pictures speak for themselves. I took some before paint so you can see the material used. Most is aluminum, a ply base was epoxied to the fuse so the mount of PC board material could be sunk into the fuse and screwed down for removal if needed. The other end just has a small Robart type hinge glued into some balsa dowel. The balsa and hinge are pushed into the fuselage mounted piece for flight, then just pulled out a bit and folded up for display.
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Old Mar 17, 2012, 02:53 PM
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You build beautiful planes! Tomorrow is the maiden of the chopped sabre! The one thing that worries me, is that I am not sure of the neutral trim for the elevator stabs becauce of the change in incidence of the main wing, I went with a guess. now I think I might have given it to much up-trim, only flying it would tell. Wish me luck!
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Old Mar 17, 2012, 03:16 PM
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McQueeney TX
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Thanks, and I do wish you luck! I think it will still need up trim, give yourself some extra elevator throw in duel rates maybe. That way if you take off and run out of elevator or something, you will have a chance, anyway, I wish you the best of luck!

Flew mine 4 times this morning, everything went OK, not a scratch! With the cloudy conditions it was very easy to see the rotating beacon and other lights, really looked cool!
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Old Mar 17, 2012, 05:57 PM
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Another great addition D! Are you working with a new set of retracts yet?

****

jacojet, let me know if you find a good vendor for this water based polyurethane you mentioned, I'd be interested in trying it myself. I've tried about three different varieties of Water Based Polyurethane, the best one was HSB, made in Germany. It was hard to get ahold of, but far batter than Varathane WBPU you can get at Home depot / Lowes. HSB dried to a more brittle/stiffer set and due to this it was very easy to sand smooth and had a nice egg shell finish to it that could be cut down to glass smooth with some wet 400 grit. Though, Varathane was so easy to get and cheap it made using it more attractive than HSB to me as far as WBPU options.
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Old Mar 17, 2012, 06:06 PM
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McQueeney TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie P View Post
Another great addition D! Are you working with a new set of retracts yet?
Thanks, Yes I'm using the larger black Hobby King retracts on the mains and the smaller one on the nose, no issues today at all. ChangeSun nose retract had a lot of slop in the mechanism I did not care for anyway, so won't using the CS retracts on anything.
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Old Mar 18, 2012, 12:57 AM
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Australia, VIC, Melbourne
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Was that the HK retracts:
5094..... 514..... 312 ???
(Small, Med, Large)
I am guessing the 514's (which is what I used).
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