Aero-tow East - Page 3

cooper998 · Oct 12, 2009, 10:11 AM

Terrys video thread HERE

Lbuff1 · Oct 12, 2009, 08:21 PM

Oh, What a weekend.
Saturday was Slope Day at Turkey Hill and the wind was blowing right into the slope.
Having only sloped one time before with Steve Shopes from RI, I was a little hesitant about throwing my scale 8 meter ASW 28 off the cliff. So I didn't, instead, I threw a 2 meter China import off into the abyss. With the calming support and encouragement of the slope regulars, cries of " Just throw it you wimp " and "fly it like its borrowed" came from crowd. One of the slope pilots finally came over, picked it up and said, Ready? 123, gone, Off the edge it went and Straight up. Lift at this sight is amazing. What a blast.
A half dozen hours later we packed it up and called it a day.
Thanks for the guidance guys.

Sunday was a beautiful day at the SKSS field In Newark DE. This is a superb place to fly sailplanes.
Steve Richman and I worked on getting his L-213a set up with final trim and then ripped it through he sky for a few flights. IT FLIES GREAT.

The Pilatus tow plane was in service and proved once again to be a STAR, Charlie and Bill both flew it around for a while with Charlie doing countless tows for us all. I spent most of my time trying to break my Ventus with no luck, I guess I will have to keep it, It flies real well and can do just about anything you ask it to do. Hard tight loops and major wing flex is no problem. Both 5 and 6 meter setups.
Terry did some flying and filming along with a few other club members. A great time was had and I cant wait till the spring. Thanks guys, I appreciate your kindness and hospitality.

LEN

soarntz · Oct 12, 2009, 08:32 PM

sounds like you guys had a blast ... too bad it was my weekend of call at the Hospital. There will be many more days.... I actually did get out Sunday... Lift was good! I ran my battery down and landed in the Landfill (NO DAMAGE) Turns out I had a bad cell in Rx Pack. Soldered up a new on today and ready to go next time!

Got to get my "Tug" done for the Aerotow next Spring!

You guys Gotta come back again!

Dave

SteveR · Oct 12, 2009, 09:03 PM

I'll toss in my heartfelt thanks to the SKSS guys. They are great hosts and always manage to arrange outstanding weather. Sunday was a simply perfect flying day.

Sad to report Len is in danger of not being invited back again as he left the field littered with with broken air molecules from all his screaming Ventus maneuvers. You really have to tidy up between flights!

Thanks to Len and Herbert, the L-213 was flying great, we fine tuned a couple of mixes and it tows straight as an arrow and lands as if on rails.

One of the very best flying days all year!

Thanks,

Steve

creeve · Oct 12, 2009, 09:09 PM

Hey Dave, Sorry we missed you
Kept us informed on conditions at the hill so we can join in on the fun

Just keep in mind I have no survival suites for those cold winter days that the die hards fly

soarntz · Oct 12, 2009, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveR

I'll toss in my heartfelt thanks to the SKSS guys. They are great hosts and always manage to arrange outstanding weather. Sunday was a simply perfect flying day.

Sad to report Len is in danger of not being invited back again as he left the field littered with with broken air molecules from all his screaming Ventus maneuvers. You really have to tidy up between flights!

Thanks to Len and Herbert, the L-213 was flying great, we fine tuned a couple of mixes and it tows straight as an arrow and lands as if on rails.

One of the very best flying days all year!

Thanks,

Steve

Len .. please note that "Breaking Air Molecule" in Pennsylvania is against the law... If we catch you doing this we will confiscate your planes and divide them amongst us!

DAve

soarntz · Oct 12, 2009, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creeve

Hey Dave, Sorry we missed you
Kept us informed on conditions at the hill so we can join in on the fun

Just keep in mind I have no survival suites for those cold winter days that the die hards fly

Yeah, it sucked on Saturday... worked 15 hours. The only good thing is I made extra money for plane stuff... need batteries for "Tug", though the wife thinks she needs more "Bling"! I have a case of Cracker Jacks on order for her!

Dave

rocketman47 · Oct 12, 2009, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soarntz

I have a case of Cracker Jacks on order for her!

I showed this to my wife.. She didn't find it half as funny as I did!

Randy

soarntz · Oct 12, 2009, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocketman47

I showed this to my wife.. She didn't find it half as funny as I did!

Randy

Tell it's like going on a "treasure Hunt" inevery Box!

"A most excellemnt adventure" to be sure!

Dave

cooper998 · Oct 21, 2009, 01:43 PM

Ok folks I've had something on my mind for some time now and am putting it out there as a "thought to ponder"
While many of us want to fly bigger and better sailplanes, I am proposing a "smaller class" of aerotowing. basically anything under 2.5 meters. Now don't get me wrong I love the big stuff but many of us are restricted by vehicle size, shop size, and of course wallet size.
What I intend to do over the Winter is build a smaller less powerful tug designed strictly for towing 2.5 meter and smaller sailplanes. Yeah I know the big tugs can do it also but newcomers to the sport may want to take it easy and would feel more comfortable with a smaller, slower tug.

Let me know what you think and if you would be more inclined to get into aerotowing if it were easier and less expensive. With the increase in events in the northeast it will offer more opportunities to get involved and increase participation at our events.

Tony

SPasierb · Oct 21, 2009, 01:53 PM

Tony,

That is a GREAT idea and you are a freaking genius. Handsome too and manly. Wanna buy a bridge?

You nailed it. At the NE Aerotow we had several interested/ernest people with modest gliders that the tugs pulled too aggressively -- either too fast for the level of pilot skills or too strong for the plane. With so many 2.6 meter ARF's on the market (aka the Habicht thread going on right now and all of the Discus variants) and the small cars and tight wallets you note, this could really open up our niche of the hobby.

Said another way, how could it hurt us to actively promote that we have tow planes especially suited to 2.5 meter gliders and pilots interested in learning about aerotow!? We owe it to the hobby to try to bring people in and help them progress.

We all know that once folks have the experience of this brand of flying and the exposure to all of our whacko personalities (insert "camaraderie" there if you prefer) they are sucked in and the wingspan persuit is on.

I believe Bob Morrow's e-power Cub here at our club in New Cannan will result in no fewer than three more people flying aerotow in 2010. Can it pull the big stuff? Nope. Can it slow down an pull a 2.5 meter CMP Discus? You betcha!

My $0.02. Not valid in Nebraska on on sheep farms.

Steve

SteveR · Oct 21, 2009, 01:54 PM

Tony, here's my 2 cents: big planes (say 3.5+ meters) fly better, tow higher and are infinitely easier to see at altitude. Just the opposite can be said of smaller sailplanes. Yes, smaller planes cost less but if you're interested in aerotow, most will want a plane that can be towed to a reasonable altitude in search of thermals as opposed to the benefits of smaller ships for slope flying, etc.

I do think small planes for aerotow are a false economy as their shortfalls become quickly apparent and the pilot quickly yearns for something more appropriate in size.

YMMV,

Steve

SteveR · Oct 21, 2009, 02:00 PM

Wouldn't you think two guys named "Steve" would have more closely aligned opinions? NOT!

billg · Oct 21, 2009, 02:49 PM

Guys,
I don't know if I missed something but won't our existing electric tow planes work for the smaller gliders? We just have to use the throttle to slow down.
Bill

Lbuff1 · Oct 21, 2009, 06:48 PM

Ok, Its my turn,
I agree with everyone,
There is a huge need for a slower and less powerful tow plane. That said, there is a common thread ( no pun intended ) which we all share. We want to get pulled up to altitude.. How its done is fairly irrelevant.
I can only speak for myself, but when I started flying sailplanes last spring, go ahead, starts the wise cracks, I started with a 3 meter Pilatus sailplane at an aero-tow event in Lancaster PA. I had a couple planes which were bigger, but quite frankly I was afraid to fly them. SteveR stood with me for my first tow with the small sailplane and offered words of wisdom, ( if I remember right is was something like, throw this little thing in the trailer, grow some balls, and lets fly the big stuff) A 4 meter Discus I had seemed like a MONSTER to me, however, I was fortunate, Eric Schlitzkus was at the event also and I badgered him into doing the maiden flight, which proved to be a smart choice due to a few issues we had with it. I never got to fly it there due to battery issues and didn't fly it until JR in June. During that time, I got quite a few flights on the "little" Pilatus B-4 and by the time I flew the Discus I felt much more at ease, although still apprehensive. SteveR can attest to that, he was there.
If I had to start with a "big " sailplane and a HUGE tug, I'm sure it would have been even more intimidating. Now, I only desire to fly the larger planes 6 meter + and SteveP is correct, once you are hooked, the bigger the plane gets. Its a matter of taste and pocket.
For me, I enjoy flying and sharing what I can, I will always let other qualified pilots fly my big stuff at events so they can get to feel for themselves if they like it.
I know I want to promote the sport and I'm sure everyone on this thread has the same goal, more events for us to all fly at.
More tugs, more sailplanes, more variation, and eventually, more wingspan.
I have a couple smaller tugs which we are putting together for the event next year, this is because we listen to the pilots who expressed interest in a smaller tow.

SteveR has a fantastic Cub which is great for a wide range of planes and even the big Pilatus I have is fine for small plane. We as tow pilots, just need to learn to tow with less authority.
So Tony, thats a great idea. It's a superb way to help new interested pilots get comfortable. It's never a bad thing to have too many tow planes.

OR

Too many SAILPLANES

Just my thoughts.
len

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Oct 12, 2009, 10:11 AM	#31
cooper998 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Newark, Delaware Posts: 1,279	Terrys video thread HERE

Oct 12, 2009, 08:21 PM	#32
Lbuff1 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Killingworth CT Posts: 483	Oh, What a weekend. Saturday was Slope Day at Turkey Hill and the wind was blowing right into the slope. Having only sloped one time before with Steve Shopes from RI, I was a little hesitant about throwing my scale 8 meter ASW 28 off the cliff. So I didn't, instead, I threw a 2 meter China import off into the abyss. With the calming support and encouragement of the slope regulars, cries of " Just throw it you wimp " and "fly it like its borrowed" came from crowd. One of the slope pilots finally came over, picked it up and said, Ready? 123, gone, Off the edge it went and Straight up. Lift at this sight is amazing. What a blast. A half dozen hours later we packed it up and called it a day. Thanks for the guidance guys. Sunday was a beautiful day at the SKSS field In Newark DE. This is a superb place to fly sailplanes. Steve Richman and I worked on getting his L-213a set up with final trim and then ripped it through he sky for a few flights. IT FLIES GREAT. The Pilatus tow plane was in service and proved once again to be a STAR, Charlie and Bill both flew it around for a while with Charlie doing countless tows for us all. I spent most of my time trying to break my Ventus with no luck, I guess I will have to keep it, It flies real well and can do just about anything you ask it to do. Hard tight loops and major wing flex is no problem. Both 5 and 6 meter setups. Terry did some flying and filming along with a few other club members. A great time was had and I cant wait till the spring. Thanks guys, I appreciate your kindness and hospitality. LEN

Oct 12, 2009, 08:32 PM	#33
soarntz Let's progress Backwards Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: 7 Miles from Turkey Hill Slope, PA. Posts: 206	sounds like you guys had a blast ... too bad it was my weekend of call at the Hospital. There will be many more days.... I actually did get out Sunday... Lift was good! I ran my battery down and landed in the Landfill (NO DAMAGE) Turns out I had a bad cell in Rx Pack. Soldered up a new on today and ready to go next time! Got to get my "Tug" done for the Aerotow next Spring! You guys Gotta come back again! Dave

Oct 12, 2009, 09:03 PM	#34
SteveR Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: New York Posts: 1,871	I'll toss in my heartfelt thanks to the SKSS guys. They are great hosts and always manage to arrange outstanding weather. Sunday was a simply perfect flying day. Sad to report Len is in danger of not being invited back again as he left the field littered with with broken air molecules from all his screaming Ventus maneuvers. You really have to tidy up between flights! Thanks to Len and Herbert, the L-213 was flying great, we fine tuned a couple of mixes and it tows straight as an arrow and lands as if on rails. One of the very best flying days all year! Thanks, Steve

Oct 12, 2009, 09:09 PM	#35
creeve Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Corner Ketch, DE Posts: 396	Hey Dave, Sorry we missed you Kept us informed on conditions at the hill so we can join in on the fun Just keep in mind I have no survival suites for those cold winter days that the die hards fly

Oct 21, 2009, 01:43 PM	#40
cooper998 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Newark, Delaware Posts: 1,279	Ok folks I've had something on my mind for some time now and am putting it out there as a "thought to ponder" While many of us want to fly bigger and better sailplanes, I am proposing a "smaller class" of aerotowing. basically anything under 2.5 meters. Now don't get me wrong I love the big stuff but many of us are restricted by vehicle size, shop size, and of course wallet size. What I intend to do over the Winter is build a smaller less powerful tug designed strictly for towing 2.5 meter and smaller sailplanes. Yeah I know the big tugs can do it also but newcomers to the sport may want to take it easy and would feel more comfortable with a smaller, slower tug. Let me know what you think and if you would be more inclined to get into aerotowing if it were easier and less expensive. With the increase in events in the northeast it will offer more opportunities to get involved and increase participation at our events. Tony

Oct 21, 2009, 01:53 PM	#41
SPasierb Build-fly-crash-repeat... Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Norwalk, CT aka the Nutmeg State -- I just can't seem to find any %$#@! nutmeg here? Posts: 1,122	Tony, That is a GREAT idea and you are a freaking genius. Handsome too and manly. Wanna buy a bridge? You nailed it. At the NE Aerotow we had several interested/ernest people with modest gliders that the tugs pulled too aggressively -- either too fast for the level of pilot skills or too strong for the plane. With so many 2.6 meter ARF's on the market (aka the Habicht thread going on right now and all of the Discus variants) and the small cars and tight wallets you note, this could really open up our niche of the hobby. Said another way, how could it hurt us to actively promote that we have tow planes especially suited to 2.5 meter gliders and pilots interested in learning about aerotow!? We owe it to the hobby to try to bring people in and help them progress. We all know that once folks have the experience of this brand of flying and the exposure to all of our whacko personalities (insert "camaraderie" there if you prefer) they are sucked in and the wingspan persuit is on. I believe Bob Morrow's e-power Cub here at our club in New Cannan will result in no fewer than three more people flying aerotow in 2010. Can it pull the big stuff? Nope. Can it slow down an pull a 2.5 meter CMP Discus? You betcha! My $0.02. Not valid in Nebraska on on sheep farms. Steve

Oct 21, 2009, 01:54 PM	#42
SteveR Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: New York Posts: 1,871	Tony, here's my 2 cents: big planes (say 3.5+ meters) fly better, tow higher and are infinitely easier to see at altitude. Just the opposite can be said of smaller sailplanes. Yes, smaller planes cost less but if you're interested in aerotow, most will want a plane that can be towed to a reasonable altitude in search of thermals as opposed to the benefits of smaller ships for slope flying, etc. I do think small planes for aerotow are a false economy as their shortfalls become quickly apparent and the pilot quickly yearns for something more appropriate in size. YMMV, Steve

Oct 21, 2009, 02:00 PM	#43
SteveR Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: New York Posts: 1,871	Wouldn't you think two guys named "Steve" would have more closely aligned opinions? NOT!

Oct 21, 2009, 02:49 PM	#44
billg Registered User Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Newark, Delaware, United States Posts: 69	Guys, I don't know if I missed something but won't our existing electric tow planes work for the smaller gliders? We just have to use the throttle to slow down. Bill

Oct 21, 2009, 06:48 PM	#45
Lbuff1 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Killingworth CT Posts: 483	Ok, Its my turn, I agree with everyone, There is a huge need for a slower and less powerful tow plane. That said, there is a common thread ( no pun intended ) which we all share. We want to get pulled up to altitude.. How its done is fairly irrelevant. I can only speak for myself, but when I started flying sailplanes last spring, go ahead, starts the wise cracks, I started with a 3 meter Pilatus sailplane at an aero-tow event in Lancaster PA. I had a couple planes which were bigger, but quite frankly I was afraid to fly them. SteveR stood with me for my first tow with the small sailplane and offered words of wisdom, ( if I remember right is was something like, throw this little thing in the trailer, grow some balls, and lets fly the big stuff) A 4 meter Discus I had seemed like a MONSTER to me, however, I was fortunate, Eric Schlitzkus was at the event also and I badgered him into doing the maiden flight, which proved to be a smart choice due to a few issues we had with it. I never got to fly it there due to battery issues and didn't fly it until JR in June. During that time, I got quite a few flights on the "little" Pilatus B-4 and by the time I flew the Discus I felt much more at ease, although still apprehensive. SteveR can attest to that, he was there. If I had to start with a "big " sailplane and a HUGE tug, I'm sure it would have been even more intimidating. Now, I only desire to fly the larger planes 6 meter + and SteveP is correct, once you are hooked, the bigger the plane gets. Its a matter of taste and pocket. For me, I enjoy flying and sharing what I can, I will always let other qualified pilots fly my big stuff at events so they can get to feel for themselves if they like it. I know I want to promote the sport and I'm sure everyone on this thread has the same goal, more events for us to all fly at. More tugs, more sailplanes, more variation, and eventually, more wingspan. I have a couple smaller tugs which we are putting together for the event next year, this is because we listen to the pilots who expressed interest in a smaller tow. SteveR has a fantastic Cub which is great for a wide range of planes and even the big Pilatus I have is fine for small plane. We as tow pilots, just need to learn to tow with less authority. So Tony, thats a great idea. It's a superb way to help new interested pilots get comfortable. It's never a bad thing to have too many tow planes. OR Too many SAILPLANES Just my thoughts. len