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Old Apr 20, 2011, 11:20 PM
Aloft Hobbies
Rotozuk's Avatar
United States, CA, Novato
Joined Sep 2003
5,813 Posts
Decided to tackle the topdrive

I went with top drive on my build that is in progress. After popping the very slim servos into the wing I was not sure I still wanted to do top drive, this is a skinny wing, and just barely has room for the servo in the wing. Eventually I decided to stick with the top drive as I need the practice before I tackle installing 4 top drives in my Spider 60 sloper.

Install was not that bad. I studied some other's work, most interesting is the new Topsky wing as it is nearly flush on both sides:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...6&postcount=12

Anyhow, my pictures are below.

This is a little tricky to get the hole nice and straight through the foam. It takes some thinking to get it all right. If you are lazy, or having issues with other parts of the build, then I suggest you skip this process. Funny thing is this is easier to do on a molded plane. No foam to mess with.

-Wayne
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Old Apr 21, 2011, 12:06 PM
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Aliso Viejo, CA
Joined Sep 2009
570 Posts
Been having bad luck with the Dymond D47 servos....I had a minor rough landing the other day and the gears stripped on the left aileron...I pulled the servo apart and replaced the gears and after putting it back together...the motor just kept running..the servo got HOT....so I pulled it back apart and plugged in and just sitting idle, the motor was going at full spead....I think the logic board is shot....so I replaced with another one I had sitting around...luckily.

In the process, I have a new way of replacing my servos...

Since I have the servos mounted and the wires running through the wing and the servo plug cut off and replaced with a Dean's 4 wire plug....I had to figure out a way to replace the servo without having to solder the 4 wire plug...again....

I cut the wires and had some male-female connectors for the servo/battery plugs...I pulled the connectors out and put them on the wires for the wire harness and servo...similar to a new 3-wire brushless motor...with the bullet connectors...but with just the small thin conectors...I then put shrink tube over them to protect from touching each other...and presto...simple connectors and a fully replacable servo...even easier to service now too...I'll post some pics as soon as I can.

Ken
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Old Apr 21, 2011, 04:27 PM
MrE
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United States, WA, Gig Harbor
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As/if I strip out my D47's Im switching to Hyperion '09's. Im really likeing my Hyperions everywhere Ive used them so far.
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Old Apr 21, 2011, 04:35 PM
MrE
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United States, WA, Gig Harbor
Joined Aug 2007
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Im having some trimming issues with my new Viper. Ive only got a few dozen tosses mostly in bumpy windy conditions so its kind of hard to tell things for sure.


However, today I had better conditions. Very lite wind and some mild thermals passing through.

My quandry is Im having trouble settling on a slow speed trim setting - and holding it there. I tend to porpose and stall a lot if I get it too slow. Going faster seems to be no problem.

Im also getting mixed results on CG tests.

In a 45 degree dive, starting from a slow speed, it stays dead on track with zero pull up. There may even be a hint of tuck down. However, when I roll inverted in level flight, it takes a fair amount of 'down' to maintain level flight.

Does that mean my decalage is off?

Im using a slight amount of reflex (2mm or so) on a launch pre-set with a small amount of UP elevator on a momentary switch. The glider launches and immediately climbs out at a good 80 degrees or so and tracks very straight on the up line once I release the switch.

Any tuning tips greatly appreciated
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Old Apr 21, 2011, 04:36 PM
MrE
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United States, WA, Gig Harbor
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By the way - cruise setting is ailerons level with the center secion of the wing and thermal setting is about 5mm down flaps.
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Old Apr 21, 2011, 04:49 PM
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Joined Jan 2008
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MrE:

I will offer my opinions, but be aware: they are opinions, and others will differ.

Given the characteristics you describe, I would try a wee bit of weight to the nose, maybe 5 grams (which is a 25 cent piece, by the way). Re-trim, and try the dive test once more. I would expect a small pull up, which is actually (in my opinion, others will differ) better than straight.

For inverted flight, don't expect a purely neutral setting. The wing is not symmetrical, and the down wash over the tail will be (at least a little bit) different. So, it will behave differently when inverted. You can have a bunch of fun while inverted, but the practical flying is right-side-up.

Launch sounds great. If you try the CG more forward, then you will probably have to re-trim the launch.

In other words, I don't think your results are mixed - they are indicators of being pretty close.

Yours, Greg
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Old Apr 21, 2011, 05:11 PM
Sink? Circling now to confirm.
JONBOYLEMON's Avatar
United States, UT, American Fork
Joined May 2002
17,096 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrE View Post
Im having some trimming issues with my new Viper. Ive only got a few dozen tosses mostly in bumpy windy conditions so its kind of hard to tell things for sure.


However, today I had better conditions. Very lite wind and some mild thermals passing through.

My quandry is Im having trouble settling on a slow speed trim setting - and holding it there. I tend to porpose and stall a lot if I get it too slow. Going faster seems to be no problem.

Im also getting mixed results on CG tests.

In a 45 degree dive, starting from a slow speed, it stays dead on track with zero pull up. There may even be a hint of tuck down. However, when I roll inverted in level flight, it takes a fair amount of 'down' to maintain level flight.

Does that mean my decalage is off?

Im using a slight amount of reflex (2mm or so) on a launch pre-set with a small amount of UP elevator on a momentary switch. The glider launches and immediately climbs out at a good 80 degrees or so and tracks very straight on the up line once I release the switch.

Any tuning tips greatly appreciated
Dumb question.... What servos are on the tail, and do you have ANY play in the linkage.

Sorry if it seems obvious and I dont know your level of DLG experience, but it does not take much to make a DLG not fly right. My TS was a new machine with digitals on the tail...
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Old Apr 21, 2011, 08:47 PM
MrE
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United States, WA, Gig Harbor
Joined Aug 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glidermang View Post
MrE:

I will offer my opinions, but be aware: they are opinions, and others will differ.

Given the characteristics you describe, I would try a wee bit of weight to the nose, maybe 5 grams (which is a 25 cent piece, by the way). Re-trim, and try the dive test once more. I would expect a small pull up, which is actually (in my opinion, others will differ) better than straight.

For inverted flight, don't expect a purely neutral setting. The wing is not symmetrical, and the down wash over the tail will be (at least a little bit) different. So, it will behave differently when inverted. You can have a bunch of fun while inverted, but the practical flying is right-side-up.

Launch sounds great. If you try the CG more forward, then you will probably have to re-trim the launch.

In other words, I don't think your results are mixed - they are indicators of being pretty close.

Yours, Greg
Thanks Greg! I'll try a bit more nose weight and see what that gives me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JONBOYLEMON View Post
Dumb question.... What servos are on the tail, and do you have ANY play in the linkage.

Sorry if it seems obvious and I dont know your level of DLG experience, but it does not take much to make a DLG not fly right. My TS was a new machine with digitals on the tail...
Bingo Jonboylemon! Im using D47's all around running direct off a 2S 320 lipo.

When I first finished the plane, centering was virtually perfect with maybe 1mm of play on the bench. Now after a few dozen tosses over maybe 2 hrs of flight time, Ive got about 2-3mm of play in the elevator and about the same in the rudder. The tail servos are no longer centering very well.

That could easily explain the difficulty Im having setting a good slow trim.

The aileron servos still seem to be doing a good job though.

Dang it! I cant really afford all new digitals right now. Plus, that means I need to add a regulator!

What micro digitals are you guys using? Ive been planning to try the Hyperion DS-09scd.

By the way, Ive got lots of powered plank experience and I spent several years TD and slope flying many eons ago. This is my first hand launch bird ever and my first glider in over 20 years.
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Old Apr 21, 2011, 08:58 PM
excelling at mediocrity
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Franktown, CO. USA
Joined Mar 2009
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MrE,
JR 285 is the gold standard. http://cgi.ebay.com/JR-DS285-Digital...50795426547295

The DS09 is the gold standard for flaperon servos.

John
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Old Apr 21, 2011, 10:35 PM
MrE
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United States, WA, Gig Harbor
Joined Aug 2007
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Thats a great price on those JR servos! They are about $8 less than the Hyperions.

Im wondering why the JR's are the gold standard for elev/rudder though? The Hyperions are lighter, smaller, have 50% more torque and have bearings instead of bushings.
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Old Apr 21, 2011, 11:26 PM
Mike M.
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United States, UT, Eden
Joined Jan 2010
5,111 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrE View Post
...Im wondering why the JR's are the gold standard for elev/rudder though? The Hyperions are lighter, smaller, have 50% more torque and have bearings instead of bushings.
The Hyperion 09's are too tall to fit in most pods, but are very thin and fit well in wings. Just the opposite for the JR 285's. They are short and fat, so work great in pods but not in wings. We are still waiting for the one magic servo that does both jobs equally well.
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Old Apr 22, 2011, 12:52 AM
MrE
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United States, WA, Gig Harbor
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I hadnt looked at the sizes close enough.

Thanks!
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Old Apr 22, 2011, 06:38 PM
Impatience is a virtue
MCH27t's Avatar
Denver, Colorado
Joined Nov 2008
682 Posts
Finished building the T2S today. I'll give it some maiden tosses tomorrow. Mine is a fairly straight forward build with a few minor mods. Mods include:
- Top drive
- RC Builder stab mount, pushrods, and control horns

Electronics are:
- Airtronics 2.4 5ch Rx w/o case
- DS09s in the wing
- HS 45s under the hood
- Lipo and regulater from RC Builder

My build is probably a bit heavy, but still came in at 9.9 oz

Should be a good day tomorrow
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Old Apr 22, 2011, 07:07 PM
excelling at mediocrity
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Franktown, CO. USA
Joined Mar 2009
3,156 Posts
The sky is not our limit. It's our playground.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MCH27t View Post
Finished building the T2S today. I'll give it some maiden tosses tomorrow. Mine is a fairly straight forward build with a few minor mods. Mods include:
- Top drive
- RC Builder stab mount, pushrods, and control horns

Electronics are:
- Airtronics 2.4 5ch Rx w/o case
- DS09s in the wing
- HS 45s under the hood
- Lipo and regulater from RC Builder

My build is probably a bit heavy, but still came in at 9.9 oz

Should be a good day tomorrow
Mike nicely done! Next is an easy 3 weeks before joining us at the next contest.
Bring it down (up) to The Ranch and we'll help you get dialed in...
9.9 oz is not a bad weight around here. We usually have some wind.
The Taboo I flew at our last contest is 10.5 oz. I reach for it every time unless there is very little wind.

And an awesome SD10G to boot! All Good! Question for you on that: Is your transmitter subject to the update/recall? This is vitally important for us to know. Disastrous results can be expected (ask me how I know).

We wish you all good with the maiden tomorrow!

John Jonke (and your Mile-High DLG Brothers)
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Old Apr 22, 2011, 08:02 PM
Impatience is a virtue
MCH27t's Avatar
Denver, Colorado
Joined Nov 2008
682 Posts
Thanks John
My SD 10 is upgraded, updated and good to go. Although the SD10 problems seem to have been fairly limited, I've no desire to bring anyone's plane down
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