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Old Apr 22, 2003, 10:23 PM
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Apex, NC
Joined Jan 2002
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120 Degree CCPM vs. Original Design?

120 Degree CCPM vs. Original Design with metal upgrades? Which is better?

How sensitive is 120 degree CCPM to same model servos (S9202) differences?

Thanks,

Victor
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Old Apr 23, 2003, 12:50 AM
17 years on RCG!
United States, NV, Las Vegas
Joined Dec 1996
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Your post doesnt mention it, but my guess is youre talking about the RappE

Truth is, the best thing you could ever do is order a CCPM kit from Al! It saves a hefty chunk of weight, incredibly simplifies the entire control system of the heli and does actually increase the performance and response!

You cant compare the stock mixing system with ally hop ups and the CCPM....theyre too different. But, the most important thing to consider here is weight. Ally parts weigh more than plastic, which just means youre getting that much more heavier than going with CCPM. Saving weight on the RappE is the name of the game for power, performance and flight time - CCPM takes a huge step in the right direction!

With coreless servos like the 9202s, youll see very little CCPM interaction. Honestly, even using cheap servos, few guys fly well enough to ever know an interaction is taking place. Digitals do of course work best, but really arent neccessary. Some of the worlds best sponsored pilots who fly for Futaba, Minature, Mikado, etc use the 9202s on CCPM .60 sized machines which they have hundreds of all out 3D flights on. When I heard and saw that first hand, it forever changed my mind about CCPM! If those guys could fly as hard as they did, and the 9202s held up in a .60, they could easily handle a 50 sized heli. Theyll work great

The one biggest ally hop up that I feel is a must have though would be the washout. Quick World Wide has one that HHIHeli.com sells for $39.99. Its almost entirely slop free and is the one best way to improve the control response and feel on a std mix or CCPM RappE. Best of all, it weighs very little more than the stock plastic unit.

After that, going with an all metal rotorhead, grips and flybar control is just icing on the cake! Many people who fly all metal heads on their Raptors will tell you that with those bits its every bit as smooth and solid as machine costing 2-3 times more! Yes, there is a weight penalty, but for something like this, its almost worth it. Plastic flexes a lot...the ally stays solid and true which makes things that much better

If youre not ready for CCPM yet, dont spend money on ally upgrades for the stock mixing system. The best hop up is the washout, then work your way up from there. But really, the CCPM is a work of art and flies excellent!

Jason
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Old Apr 23, 2003, 09:25 AM
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Apex, NC
Joined Jan 2002
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Thanks,

Al has been a great help. I am ordering the CCPM now. The RappE that I purchased came with the metal wash out, Quick UK Swash (for sale), Meatal Collective Arm (for sale) and metal Aileron Levers (for sale). I am keeping the metal wash out.

Do I need the stiffner plate with on the V1 frame?

Victor
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Old Apr 23, 2003, 05:23 PM
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NM, USA
Joined Mar 2002
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Victor,

Keep the frame brace. It really helps the bottom of the Raptor take some abuse especially hard autos or beginner landings. The lower legs are a weak point some say on a Raptor. I haven't broken one yet in some hard landings but I have seen both back ones break on a 30 that didn't have it.

It also makes for a good battery support if you put your batteries in the frame. It only weighs 1 ounce so it doesn't add much weight.

I have flown with or without and doesn't make any difference in the flight characteristics other than the weight drop.

Besides if you wan't to buy one later they cost like 35 bucks.

Al
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Old Apr 23, 2003, 10:30 PM
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Apex, NC
Joined Jan 2002
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Al,

I don't have a frame brace now. Where can I order the carbon version that comes with the V2 kit?

I can't wait to fly the Raptor with all you great mods. I have a feeling the Corona will be a little neglected.

After getting a great deal on a Raptor I still will have over $1500 invested in the Raptor. From scratch it would probably cost another $500. The Corona is a much better deal for a learning helicopter.

The Logo 20 might be a better flying helicopter but Iíll bet the crash kit cost more than $40.

Thanks again for your help Al.

Victor
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Old Apr 24, 2003, 01:17 AM
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I have owned and flown several E-helis, and Raptor with Al's conversion is by far the best flying heli. In fact, I have just sold my Logo 20 and Voyager. They are just collecting dust while my Raptor is going through packs every chance I get.

Mr. Carbon makes a carbon brace, but some cutting is needed for the canopy to fit. I find the brace necessary as it provide the only place to stick velcro for battery hold down.

You really want to hear how much the crash kit is for Logo 20? Try $130. And this does not include a canopy which almost always break during a crash.

Stephen
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Old Apr 24, 2003, 07:10 AM
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USA, NY, Jamestown
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Victor, I have noticed some of your posts re: an E Raptor50 set up. I have been thinking about this as a next step also. I need funds and skills to come together first, hopefully sometime this summer. If you could, once you get everything up and going, list your setup so that I (and others) have a good template from which to start.

Stephen, I also noticed that you were selling a few of your helis. I wondered why.

The cost of parts is the one major issue that leads me to the ERaptor50. I would much prefer a next step heli with a lesser cell count but will live with that over rediculously/irrationally high cost of replacement parts.
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Old Apr 24, 2003, 10:49 AM
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Apex, NC
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Hey JoeR!

I am only selling some of the parts that came with the Raptor that I don't intend to use. So far one of my sons asked me not to sell the Hacker Corona (my only other helicopter). If he doesnít show interest soon it will be for sell after I fly the Raptor and see how I like it and how much flight time it will get compared to the Corona (fly anywhere).

As for the Raptor, I am doing exactly what I did on the Corona (minus figuring out the first Hacker install), using this great forum to piece together the Raptor from other's experience.

The final configuration to fly next weekend will be: Al's High Mount and CCPM conversion, Hacker B50 15XL, Hacker Master 48-3P Opto Heli ESC, UBEC, Raptor 30v1 upgraded to a Raptor 50v1 (50 crash kit, belt, new boom tail servo mount to replace the fuse carbon NHP mount for the longer boom), Futaba GY401/S9253 tail servo, 3XS9202 CCPM servos, Futaba 148DF 8ch RX, Metal swash, Carbon frame stiffener, 6 10XHRSC2600 NiMH zapped packs (3 sets), Eclipse 7 TX, and an Orbit Pro v2 charger.

I just followed the Ezone recipe pioneered by others and stirred in some cash. Ezone saved me a ton of $$. The Raptor from Mike cost $850 with Al's conversion, the Hacker Motor and ESC, the complete IC package with electric starter and accessories and about $300 worth of upgrades Futaba 8ch RX/401Gyro/Servos (had to buy one additional S9202 to match the other two). Thanks Mike!! The UBEC I purchased from here also cost $22 shipped ($18 savings). Al saved me $$ by swapping the High Mount for the Low Mount that Mike never flew. Thanks Al!!

The only two upgrades I can imagine are good carbon blades and eventually, when the price drops, LiPoly batteries.

If you start from scratch on a Raptor I am sure that when you tally up the final $$ it will be close to $2000, with CCPM, with 3 set of NiMH batteries; not including the charger and TX. Not cheap. But after the sunk cost, I am sure the $/hour operating cost (crashes included) are much lower than any other heli this size.

My coworker (now Ezone addict also) and I wish there were forums like this for professional software development (.net) that also actually answer question near real time.

Joe, I recommend that you NEVER see the RaptorE 50 fly! When I saw K.C.ís turbine jet engine sounding, rock solid, monster size heli fly (compared to the Corona), I went and bought one a few days later. It looked much smoother compared to the gas version.

I'll write in when the Raptor flies.

Victor
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Old Apr 24, 2003, 10:50 AM
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JoeR -

I've actually got a fairly thorough spreadsheet that details ALL of the stuff I bought to complete my Raptor 50. Since I started from scratch, I wanted to be organized. The spreadsheet includes the cost of each item (and shipping) and where I bought it. I think I did a good job of optimizing cost & quality (for my skill level, at least). I tried to spend as little as possible while not limiting myself by going too cheap.

I'll tidy up the spreadsheet this evening and post a link to it so anybody who's interested can grab it.

KC
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Old Apr 24, 2003, 08:05 PM
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KC, Please do post a link. I am a few months away but would like to be aware of what I will need. Thanks, Joe
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