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Old Mar 31, 2010, 03:05 PM
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Sunny Sheff, UK
Joined Jul 2008
148 Posts
Thanks microkites. I will look again, though if I have it any looser there is play in the shaft below the frame. I'll take a look.

Something else I've just noticed! On the tail motor shaft there is what looks like a tiny grub screw attaching the blade holders to the shaft. Is it a grub screw? Only mine is completely rounded and more like a rivet so it doesn't engage with the tiny allen driver HK provide. I know on the Align Trex 250 there is a small grub screw there. I fear whoever built the tail at the factory completely rounded off this screw

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Originally Posted by microkites View Post
would try again on the 1-way- mine did that and then it went together smooth

think has to do with the tension on the washer

part your thinking of that is missing doesnt come with the HK kit

doesnt need it either- vertical fin just screws direct to tail case
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Old Mar 31, 2010, 03:10 PM
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Sunny Sheff, UK
Joined Jul 2008
148 Posts
You're a brave man Ron going from a coax to a 250! Is this your first CP heli? I think most people would recommend a 450 or 500 size for a first CP heli over a 250. They're pretty stable and less twitchy but I can understand why the 250 would appeal.

I went the hard route (inadvertently) and started out on a 4/3B and Honey Bee FP!

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Originally Posted by mncowboy969 View Post
microkites - LOL Well, since I'm a newbie at this, and wanting the experience, then I'll go for the new frame and parts. Well, unless you're going to give a fellow Oregonian (mis-placed in Minnesota right now) a bargain basement deal. LOL

Thanks for the infor on the higher kv motor. Any suggestions on what size motor, or any other parts other than what you put in yours, would be greatly appreciated!

I have a 450 coming to me, if I ever get the parts from HK. LOL It's getting close to a month now. But, since I've only flown coaxial helicopters, I figured maybe a 250 may be a better starting point than the 450. Plus, I've got some acreage at my place, but also have some trees on it. So, figured that a 250 will be better to have "fewer" entaglements with tree branches, etc. And, last but not least, it's a smaller piece of plastic and metal to drop out of the sky. LMAO

So, I'm open to any ideas, suggestions, etc. from any and all!

Thanks!
Ron
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Old Mar 31, 2010, 03:48 PM
Gone Flying.
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Western NY
Joined Nov 2006
2,401 Posts
Ron - I agree with Chip. A 250, although lower-cost to build and power, is quite a bit more difficult to fly than a larger electric CP heli. I feel that I have to be twice as alert and on my toes when flying a 250 outdoors, it's much more easily influenced by the wind and goes out of orientation quickly in forward flight, it's also more squirrelly than a larger heli so it requires more persistent correction.

Honestly, I'd get that 450 built first, it's a wildly popular frame and Align 450 parts are sold at most hobby shops, and because they are so popular replacement parts are often cheaper since there are a lot of good quality non-Align parts suppliers for them out there. Additionally, the 450 will be easier for you to control and learn on in flight, but a good Sim (such as RealFlight) is the best option for learning before you fly a real CP heli...
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Old Mar 31, 2010, 03:52 PM
I HOOVER because I SUCK!
Portland,Oregon U.S.A.
Joined Sep 2007
5,141 Posts
yah- a 250 will be twice as hard to learn on as a 450

I have had 5 200 size helis

and I learned to hover on the 4#3b

you will have a real hard time learning on the 250

the head speed alone will be intimidating to most

still is to me!

after you munch it up the first time, I would recommend getting a 4ch fp and learn to hover a real heli

setting up a cp is a hard learning curve even if you know how to fly

trying to do both at the same time when you dont know the feel of how it should fly will make it twice as hard to learn

not saying it cant be done, but you would be well advised to fly a fp first

I would highly recommend a 4#3b- can fly it anywhere with no worries, and can find new ones for $80-$100

and my favorite advantage to the 4#3b is- almost impossible to hurt anything with it

btw- if you are still interested in the 250- mine is totally new and unflown- just setup and waiting for its maiden- will sell it at cost-plus no 3-4 weeks waiting for hobby king

but I really really dont reccomend getting a 250 after a coax

will sell you a rtf 4#3b for $80 if interested

but good luck no matter!

mk
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Old Mar 31, 2010, 04:00 PM
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Sunny Sheff, UK
Joined Jul 2008
148 Posts
It was a grub screw after all. Lucky to get that thing out. It was completely rounded off. Good job there was no loctite on it. Not surprising as I only had five thread locked screws on the the entire heli.
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Old Mar 31, 2010, 08:34 PM
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Rochester, MN
Joined Mar 2010
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Hi All - Thanks for the info, what an "eye opener"! 8-) I'm glad you all told me like it is, but yet didn't slam dunk me. I hear you now about the 450 as well as the advice of getting a 4 channel FP. My parts are sooner or later going to get out of Hong Kong (they FINALLY made it to the shipping carrier! So, maybe what I'll do is to get that put together, and do some spin ups, and see if I can learn to hoover it. Then, before totally destroying it, if I cann't, then I'll shift to the FP idea. If so, then I'll give you a shout microkites.

I do have the ClearView flight simulator, and have been practicing on that for both CP as well as airplanes. It sure is humbling, but as you keep trying, and getting that finess and dexterity on the controls, then I'm getting better and better. But.....as you all can imagine, since I'm sure you've been there and done that, I still have a TON to learn! And, I realize that even though the flight simulator will help, I'm sure that it's somewhat differnt, and more risky with the real thing.

Thanks!
Ron
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Old Apr 01, 2010, 02:15 AM
szo
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Australia, NSW, Cronulla
Joined Jun 2005
150 Posts
'mncowboy' You should be Ok if you keep the headspeed down. you don't need crazy 3d headspeed if you just want to hover around the yard.

I've set one of my 250s up for the backyard and it is more stable than any of the 450s I've ever built. Do a search for a thread by 'estarter' . I followed his setup. The lighter you can keep it(mines @ 285grams) the less headspeed you need.

good luck.
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Old Apr 01, 2010, 02:16 AM
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UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chipbutty View Post
It was a grub screw after all. Lucky to get that thing out. It was completely rounded off. Good job there was no loctite on it. Not surprising as I only had five thread locked screws on the the entire heli.
grrrr - I hate that grub screw!!! I already have two hubs, on cut off pieces of tail shaft, with slipped grub screws I don't know what to do with! I've tried heating it, using superglue on tiny allen key,drilling it out, etc...

First one managed to break 0.9mm hex driver I've got with HK250GT, second has slipped a week ago. HK is not selling hubs only - so I had to buy 4.50 one for Align's 250. And if tightened without locktite it just gets undone and start rotating on the shaft (ask me how do I know that )

Good luck with them!
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Old Apr 01, 2010, 03:22 AM
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Sunny Sheff, UK
Joined Jul 2008
148 Posts
I feel your pain. As it it it turns out the screw wasn't rounded as I thought but the screw head is the incorrect size so the driver head wouldn't engage.

Here's what I've found. The tiny grub screws on the flybar and main shaft collar fit the supplied hex key fine. The tiny grub screw on my tail shaft is too small for the hex driver. I thought it was just a dud screw but I checked all the grub screws in the spares bag and they're all too small for the driver! None fit. Seems someone else has the same issue on the HK forum. Looks like an incorrect sized batch of screws has been supplied.

I don't know how screw sizes work. The hex driver is stated to be 0.9mm. The grub screws measure 2mm in diameter, obviously the internal dimensions are smaller. I'm guessing they should be 0.9mm to fit the driver. I've looked at the Align manual for the 250 and the screw they use on the tail is 2mm. If that's the diameter then I could try and find some 2mm grub screws. Is that the way these screws are sold, by their external diameter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by clicky View Post
grrrr - I hate that grub screw!!! I already have two hubs, on cut off pieces of tail shaft, with slipped grub screws I don't know what to do with! I've tried heating it, using superglue on tiny allen key,drilling it out, etc...

First one managed to break 0.9mm hex driver I've got with HK250GT, second has slipped a week ago. HK is not selling hubs only - so I had to buy 4.50 one for Align's 250. And if tightened without locktite it just gets undone and start rotating on the shaft (ask me how do I know that )

Good luck with them!
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Old Apr 01, 2010, 03:52 AM
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Sunny Sheff, UK
Joined Jul 2008
148 Posts
Clicky - I don't know if these screws are better quality but I've just ordered a bag along with a Wera 0.9mm hex driver. The Wera drivers are decent. Been using one on my 4/3B for a couple of years.

M2 grub screws (fits 0.9mm hex driver)

Wera Hex Tip Micro/Precision Screwdriver 0.9mm x 40mm

Cheap allen key. Though not that cheap when compared to the Wera.

Allen Key/Hexagon/Hex .035"/0.9mm

Now I've got to hope all this arrives soon as with our long bank holiday weekend I was looking forward to some flying time with the 250. Frustrating when a tiny grub screw can keep you grounded! They're always in critical areas too.
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Old Apr 01, 2010, 05:24 AM
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UK
Joined May 2007
3,204 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by chipbutty View Post
Clicky - I don't know if these screws are better quality but I've just ordered a bag along with a Wera 0.9mm hex driver. The Wera drivers are decent. Been using one on my 4/3B for a couple of years.

M2 grub screws (fits 0.9mm hex driver)

Wera Hex Tip Micro/Precision Screwdriver 0.9mm x 40mm

Cheap allen key. Though not that cheap when compared to the Wera.

Allen Key/Hexagon/Hex .035"/0.9mm

Now I've got to hope all this arrives soon as with our long bank holiday weekend I was looking forward to some flying time with the 250. Frustrating when a tiny grub screw can keep you grounded! They're always in critical areas too.
Fantastic! It is pure coincidence that I was thinking of buying exactly the same screwdriver from Conrad's web site (for 3+ more) and decided that I'll do it some other day! Good find. It would be nice if the same guy has TORX 1.3 as well (same make).
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Old Apr 04, 2010, 01:32 PM
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Sunny Sheff, UK
Joined Jul 2008
148 Posts
This is my first heli with a belt driven tail so I don't know if this is normal or not. I've just started the tail setup. I would've though that with the tail pitch slider in the middle I would have zero pitch but that doesn't appear to be the case? Here are a few pics showing centre position and full left and right travel.

One side has far more pitch than the other. Is that to compensate for the tail wanting to spin in the opposite direction to the rotation of the blades? Hopefully someone can put my mind at rest





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Old Apr 04, 2010, 01:41 PM
I HOOVER because I SUCK!
Portland,Oregon U.S.A.
Joined Sep 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chipbutty View Post
This is my first heli with a belt driven tail so I don't know if this is normal or not. I've just started the tail setup. I would've though that with the tail pitch slider in the middle I would have zero pitch but that doesn't appear to be the case? Here are a few pics showing centre position and full left and right travel.

One side has far more pitch than the other. Is that to compensate for the tail wanting to spin in the opposite direction to the rotation of the blades? Hopefully someone can put my mind at rest





yes - is built in to counteract main blade torque

mk
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Old Apr 04, 2010, 01:51 PM
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Sunny Sheff, UK
Joined Jul 2008
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Thanks MK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by microkites View Post
yes - is built in to counteract main blade torque

mk
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Old Apr 05, 2010, 02:30 AM
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UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by microkites View Post
yes - is built in to counteract main blade torque

mk
I second that. It is quite normal. I got me thinking too, but when looked at 450 it is asymmetrical too - but not in such degree. I bet if they're to make even smaller heli it would be even more exaggerated
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