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Old Oct 14, 2012, 09:52 AM
rcflyer
UK
Joined Jun 2010
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Yeah, I understand. I have a 450 size fp helicopter and just wanted a small one to have a bit of fun with. Is flybarless more stable? What are the flying characteristics like compared to the 450?

Cheers
Jim
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 11:59 AM
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You mean, you have a 450 CP right? I can't help you with FBL characteristics because the 450 FBL I have is still in the box (unassembled), but I would imagine
that a 250 FBL helicopter would be more stable than a 250 with a FB. I know that is not much help.
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 12:18 PM
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One more thing, because the 250 is so small, there is only so much space for wiring. I could barely fit the wires in with a regular gyro, the FBL system is bigger and has more wires, making it harder to install, although I heard it could be done.
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 12:58 PM
efx
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Flybarless is very sensitive as is the 250 size helicopter. My guess is this would be even more sensitive, but you can always turn everything down on the transmitter whether it is flybar or flybarless. The learning curve will be more with flybarless if you never have set one up. I think it is a good thing to learn the regular flybar heli and how things work on it first, this gives you a good idea on how to set up the flybarless because it's base on the same principle but works a bit different, specially the settings. Whether you get a 250 or 450 just use the kit as is, I know you can buy either type now, but I would still rather get a flybar heli for a beginner, then move on to flybarless later on. You can however buy the flybarless gyro and use it just as a gyro for a flybared heli. This will get you the new gyro you still need, and allow you to move to flybarless head later if you really want to. Just another option. I just noticed you do have a 450, so getting a smaller heli should be fine, just remember they are a bit harder to fly but not impossible. The HK kit comes in a flybar type, so the flybarless head is something you still have to buy separate at the moment. Just get something like that and use it the way it is. Let me see if I can find the video where I used my flybarless unit as a gyro on the 250. I had and still don't have a flybarless head on my 250s.

I was still having problems with my tail but at least you can see that it can be used as a regular gyro. I didn't even plug in the programmer just the receiver and the servo. I have my receivers under the mount and the gyro was on top with velcro and fit just right with the wires facing the rear of the heli. Although it is bigger than a regular gyro unfortunately, but works just the same and you have extra wires you have to tie if you're not using it with a flybarless head.
250GT Copter X Flybarles Gyro only Flight 1 today (3 min 1 sec)
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 01:56 PM
rcflyer
UK
Joined Jun 2010
843 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mugen 1 View Post
You mean, you have a 450 CP right? I can't help you with FBL characteristics because the 450 FBL I have is still in the box (unassembled), but I would imagine
that a 250 FBL helicopter would be more stable than a 250 with a FB. I know that is not much help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mugen 1 View Post
One more thing, because the 250 is so small, there is only so much space for wiring. I could barely fit the wires in with a regular gyro, the FBL system is bigger and has more wires, making it harder to install, although I heard it could be done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by efx View Post
Flybarless is very sensitive as is the 250 size helicopter. My guess is this would be even more sensitive, but you can always turn everything down on the transmitter whether it is flybar or flybarless. The learning curve will be more with flybarless if you never have set one up. I think it is a good thing to learn the regular flybar heli and how things work on it first, this gives you a good idea on how to set up the flybarless because it's base on the same principle but works a bit different, specially the settings. Whether you get a 250 or 450 just use the kit as is, I know you can buy either type now, but I would still rather get a flybar heli for a beginner, then move on to flybarless later on. You can however buy the flybarless gyro and use it just as a gyro for a flybared heli. This will get you the new gyro you still need, and allow you to move to flybarless head later if you really want to. Just another option. I just noticed you do have a 450, so getting a smaller heli should be fine, just remember they are a bit harder to fly but not impossible. The HK kit comes in a flybar type, so the flybarless head is something you still have to buy separate at the moment. Just get something like that and use it the way it is. Let me see if I can find the video where I used my flybarless unit as a gyro on the 250. I had and still don't have a flybarless head on my 250s.

I was still having problems with my tail but at least you can see that it can be used as a regular gyro. I didn't even plug in the programmer just the receiver and the servo. I have my receivers under the mount and the gyro was on top with velcro and fit just right with the wires facing the rear of the heli. Although it is bigger than a regular gyro unfortunately, but works just the same and you have extra wires you have to tie if you're not using it with a flybarless head.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FstsXLvrUnI
Thanks for the help guys. Very helpful indeed!
I'm still debating over which size to get but the flybarless case is now closed!

Jim
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 07:34 PM
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Get a 450 more room to add FBL and screws/parts are a little bigger and easier to repair

easier to see and fly

parts are comparable in price to a 250

My 250 is cool but i fly my 450 way more..its better in wind and i can repair it 3x faster then my 250
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gandal View Post
Get a 450 more room to add FBL and screws/parts are a little bigger and easier to repair

easier to see and fly

parts are comparable in price to a 250

My 250 is cool but i fly my 450 way more..its better in wind and i can repair it 3x faster then my 250
that is true, but the 250 is just a totally different bird compared to the 450. both birds are awesome to fly

as for fbl yes the 250 is just too small for all those components. May be i'm getting older, but i think i prefer the simplicity of FB.
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 11:22 PM
efx
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Just got back from hovering the flybarless and Pitchp, you're right, I still like the flybar a little bit more still. It's working fine, but i think I need night blades as I'm always out there in the dark. Too bad they don't make any cheap night blades. The flybarless feels much more sensitive than a flybar heli. Anyway I'm still having a problem with the tail as it's not moving smoothly on this heli. Not to mention the included arms on that 306 servo kind of suck. The short star shaped feels a bit short and I can't seem to get even angle on both sides of the slider. The big ones are too long. Does anyone know what other arms fit those servos? I think I really need to find me arms that are in between. I'll try the bigger ones and see if I can make them work better.

I think I just found why the tail feels slow. I just checked the other heli and the tail linkage is plastic, this flybarless is aluminum and it looks like the screw was a bit tight. Seems to move much better now. I just have to add a bit of loc tite and not tighten it all the way down. Big difference as there is nothing else binding. It's always the little things. Loc tight on the little bearing doesn't help either.
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 02:23 AM
Team Mulikow 3D
Oxfordshire, UK
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efx,

If the FBL has made your 250 too twitchy for you, you can easily tune it down to make it less sensitive by reducing the agility settings.

Mike
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 02:32 AM
efx
Rookie in training, heads up
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Thanks Mike, but I got the flybarless unit on the 450. I have managed to test hover it now, but I'm still getting a feel for it. My tail slider was a bit tight so I had to take that apart, scrape out the extra loc tite from the bearing, add oil on both sides of the bearing. I also added loc tite from the top of the screw hole instead of the bearing side and snug the screw to make sure it wasn't too tight as before. It seems to work much better now, but now I need to find some other servo arms for these two servos. The arms are too big and the small one seems one bit too small. I can use them as they are, but I'm really not liking the current arms. I can set the rate mode perfectly or the HH with these arms but not both. I remember I was able to do both before with my orange servos. Not that you need both, but I like to have everything working the way it should be, just in case.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeHRC View Post
efx,

If the FBL has made your 250 too twitchy for you, you can easily tune it down to make it less sensitive by reducing the agility settings.

Mike
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 08:34 AM
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Last night I replaced the slightly bent HK feathering shaft with stock align shaft. Also put on stock align tail blade holder and took a flight.

The tail definitely improved from the HK tail. I can go to higher tail gain without wag. And it feels more responsive too.
Not sure what happened next. Maybe a breeze or failed cyclic, the heli flew side ways and I couldn't correct it. It smashed into a hand rail and exploded.

So the 2 blades separated. One blade holder screw snapped in the shaft. However the shaft still appears to be straight! It's much much harder than the HK shaft. But the screws aren't.
Also the right cyclic servo HXT900 failed. I think that maybe the cause for the crash as it was flying towards left.

Looking back I may actually prefer the HK feathering shaft as it will bend and break first, without damaging other parts.

I'm still using the stock plastic blades. They scuffs but don't break. Better than CF which breaks into small bits upon the tiniest crash. Bad for beginners.
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 09:28 PM
Death Drops are awesome.
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I've got most of the parts in queue to finish the build.

the tx will either be a dx6i or dx7i

esc: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ng_2s_4s_.html

batteries: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...Lipo_Pack.html

tail servo: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...g_07s_9kg.html


I'm not sure what motor I should pick up because it's pretty hard to tell from the part numbers on that site. anyone with any advice?
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabin View Post
I've got most of the parts in queue to finish the build.

the tx will either be a dx6i or dx7i

esc: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ng_2s_4s_.html

batteries: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...Lipo_Pack.html

tail servo: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...g_07s_9kg.html


I'm not sure what motor I should pick up because it's pretty hard to tell from the part numbers on that site. anyone with any advice?
we were just discussing that on the last page .
the 2627 size motors work with the 250 ... i think thats the size

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...20372&page=522
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 10:40 PM
Death Drops are awesome.
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yeah I had a look at that motor and it almost made it into the basket... but it's only rated for 2s. I'd like one that's rated for 3s
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 11:57 PM
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Sabin if you're looking for a gyro this one is a good one to get apparently

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/US-Stock-...item2a23521c46
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Last edited by pitchp; Oct 16, 2012 at 12:04 AM.
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