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Old Dec 02, 2011, 04:36 PM
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Andy,

It uses the conventional 5 pin vertical socket as per the bog standard JR module sets (347/388/3810/9X/9XII/10 series).

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Old Dec 02, 2011, 05:10 PM
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theaton56,

Cool. So I could just cut a hole in the back and fit a module for a 9X if I needed to?
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Old Dec 02, 2011, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWorrest View Post
The ACRO programming for what you want is straight forward. It will require a receiver with seven or more channels. Start with a cleared memory slot. Select ACRO type. When asked for wing type, select NORMAL. Next when asked about DUAL-AILE, select GEAR. Make your choice about having a V-tail or not. Then go to the WING TYPE menu on the System List and under FLAP select AUX2. If you have a receiver with more than seven channels then the mated channels to aileron and flap can be other than what I listed.

Allan
I was reading about 4 aileron setups in the (appalling) DSX11 manual earlier and wondered how I'd do it with a six channel receiver (single elevator servo and no motor in a pure glider), or with a 7 channel receiver if I wanted 4 aileron servos on an electric motor glider, or on an 8 channel receiver in an electric plane and still wanted retractable undercarriage, since it seemed to be saying it needed to use the GEAR channel for one of the ailerons.

Also, on an electric glider, I'd want the throttle on the throttle stick, not the spoilers - I'd want those on one of the sliders, with a switch to deactivate them. At first reading, I don't see any way to assign the spoiler function to a slider on this sort of transmitter, though maybe there's a work around?

What it says about the flap channel in glider mode seems very limiting:

Quote:
Flap Channel (6ch)
As the input device, it will be possible to select one of the three-position switches, the left and right levers, and the AUX4 and AUX5 knobs. The output device is always set to “ACT” and can not be selected
I'd want the flap function to affect the inner two ailerons. Also, the DSX11 doesn't have AUX4 and AUX5 knobs, it just has two sticks, six digital trims, two sliders on the back, and eight switches.

The apparent inability to freely assign functions to channels and inputs is more than a bit disappointing, and feels like a big restriction after using my Multiplex MC3030 (my main Tx for outdoor planes). Each function only has a limited range of allowable inputs. Things I'd do very easily on the MC3030 would seem to at least require setting up mixers on the DSX11/11x, and from reading the manual, seem like they might not even be possible.

For example, I have an indoor 3 channel Stampe, using a Vapor brick with a brushless ESC connected to the rudder channel (the servos on the Vapor brick are on the aileron and elevator channels). On my MC3030 I'd simply be able to assign MOTOR to the throttle stick, as normal, and assign the "servo" on channel 4 to the MOTOR function (in Multiplex speak, you assign servos to functions, oddly, not functions to servos, but it's the same thing). On my DX6i I have to mix the throttle onto the rudder channel, and mix the rudder channel to itself, at -100% throws, so it doesn't affect the motor. I gather I'll have to do something similar on the DSX11.
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Old Dec 03, 2011, 05:38 AM
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Andy,

I've downloaded the 11XZero manual from MacGregor's site. I believe that from an instructional viewpoint, it is a notch above the one supplied with the US 11X. The 11X is JR's most versatile transmitter and the only way to really understand it without have a manual the size of a book is to have the transmitter in your hands while reading the instructions.

The DSX11/11XZero glider programming is not exactly the same as the US 11X2.4. While control switches and levers are not completely assignable on either, the assignablility is much better than any previous JR transmitter and that includes the 12X.

When you speak of a 4-aileron wing on a glider, I assume you mean having dual ailerons and dual flaps where the flaps can be use as ailerons. On the DSX11 you should be able to pick from a number of channels to mate with the flap channel. I believe the DSX11 is similar to my 11X2.4 in that only one or a certain number of channels can be used for motor control if you want to have the function list MOTOR SYSTEM available. For a motor glider you should be able to assign the channels as left aileron, right aileron, elevator, rudder, motor, right flap and left flap, where the left flap is the AUX2 channel.

On an electric airplane, you should be able in ACRO to assign channels other than GEAR to mate with the aileron or flap. And if not, simply assign the GEAR SW to one of the auxiliary channels in the Device Select menu and use it for the retract channel.

The quote that you posted about the flap channels and the knobs is in error. It probably came for the 12X manual. It is best that you can't inhibit the flap channel. On the 11X2.4 it can be and it has caused a lot of confusion. People have done it in ACRO, and found the aileron trim functions incorrectly. In glider programming the flap function using the slider control can be controlled with flight modes in the function list menu that controls the flap rate. If the rate is set to zero, the slider is inhibited for that mode.

The spoiler and brake system on the 11XZero is a more difficult situation. For some reason on it and I assume the DSX11, there is no way of switching the brake system on and off. The switch select option for that menu doesn't exist. The brake system is either permanently on or off. This was pointed out to me by a South African 11XZero owner. His solution was to inhibit the brake system and duplicate its functions with the program mixes where there are switch select options. If the DSX11 is similar to the 11x2.4, another option is to change the [DEVICE] for the AUX2 channel from spoiler stick to a slider. The AUX2 channel is the spoiler channel and its device controls the brake system. Unlike the 9 channel transmitters, the brake system doesn't have to be controlled by the throttle/spoiler stick.

From what I've read, there are transmitters that have more assignability than JR. Considering a few years ago there was a JR ad that lauded it inflexibility to assign switches, the 11X represents an amazing change in policy. The stick channels are still firmly set. That is something you should keep in mind when selecting a receiver for a sailplane or motor glider. On many receivers for the JR 2.4 transmitters, only the first channel can be preset to a failsafe position.

Allan
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Old Dec 03, 2011, 12:00 PM
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Andy,

Not really as there is no option to extract the RF signal from the conventional module. RF is generated within the module and is fed out on pin 5, on conventional sets this is fed to the Antenna. On the DSX11 the 5th pin goes off to an empty track. So it would need to be modified to take a standard Antenna.
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Old Dec 03, 2011, 04:42 PM
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Thanks for the detailed reply, Allan.

I've had a look at the 11x Zero manual too, though I've read more of the paper DSX11 manual so far. Both the paper and PDF DSX11 manuals mention the AUX4 and AUX5 knobs a few times. I guess it is just a cut down version of the 12x manual, rewritten by someone who either wasn't paying attention, or didn't fully understand the subject he was writing about.

It seems a shame to have to resort to workarounds with mixers to get fairly basic things to work the way I'm used to. I have a couple of electric gliders with just two aileron servos with spoilerons set up (on a slider activated by a switch) and I think I'd have trouble getting even that to work on the DSX11 without things getting complicated. I could try making mixers to do it, but then I'd lose differential, unless I added mixers to do that, and I might not be able to make it reduce the differential in proportion to the amount of spoilers deployed, to allow the ailerons to respond better with spoliers on. Those things are built in to the system if you use the throttle stick for spoilers, as JR intended, but I expect it's quite hard to duplicate them for yourself through mixers, if you want to put the spoiler control on a slider. It seems like a completely needless restriction to me. The control is there. Why not let us use it the way we want to?

Putting the gear on another channel makes sense, because it's just switched, maybe with a servo speed setting. Trying to move something like the spoiler stick with mixers could get messy - as it's tied up with functions like differential for the sort of setups I'm interested in, not just a single spoiler channel, but I'll just forget about that for now.

I don't actually own a glider with separate flap servos at the moment, though I may set up an electric plane with two aileron servos and two flap servos fairly soon. Even so, the chances are I'll be flying it with my Multiplex MC3030, not the DSX11, so maybe I should just not worry about it, and concentrate on what I need it to do at the moment.

I've probably got most of that covered already, for now. I've set up my 4-Site with flaperons and differential (activated by a switch) and set up the mixers to control the motor of my 3CH brushless Stampe (with the ESC on the rudder channel). The mixing to do that is pretty similar to the DX6i - one mixer to disable the rudder stick, then another to mix the throttle onto the rudder channel, though I don't remember needing to set an offset on the throttle channel for the DX6i (maybe I did), and I didn't have to tell it to include dual rates as part of the mixer input, just the trims. Even so, the basic philosohpy is the same.

Incidentally, when I look at the 11x Zero manual, I don't see any page numbers in the index. I'm using Foxit Reader though... It's the same in Adobe Acrobat Reader 4, but maybe I need the latest Acrobat to see them. As I use Windows 2000, I don't bother with the latest versions of things like that - they often don't work, or just refuse to install. I had Acrobat Reader 9 for a while, but it was a dog.
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Old Dec 03, 2011, 04:44 PM
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theaton56,

I'm not entirely sure I understand that, but I guess a small amount of rewiring wouldn't be a major problem, if I needed to change the module. It's nice to know it's possible, even if they haven't made it easy.
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Old Dec 03, 2011, 07:48 PM
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Andy,

Concerning your glider with no flaps and just spoilerons, the 11XZero instructions lead me to believe that you can set it up without resorting to program mixes by just using the brake system menu in the function list. The instruction for the GLID Device Sel menu (p102) reads, "AUX2 Channel (7ch) As the input device, it will be possible to select one of the three-position switches, the left and right levers, and the spoiler stick. The output device can be selected as "INH" and "ACT"." If your transmitter works like mine, The AUX2 device controls the brake system.

As an experiment I would be interested if you would do the following. Set up a glider on a cleared memory slot. When the initial setup asks for dual-flaps, set it to INH. Set up the BRAKE SYS menu in the function list without making any changes to the Device Select menu. Verify that the spoiler stick controls the flaperons (spoilerons) and the elevator if you have set that up as well as in the Brake System. If it works properly with the spoiler stick, go back to the Device Select menu and change the AUX2 [Device] from Spoiler Stick to one of the levers or switches. See if that lever or switch now doesn't control the brake functions and the spoiler stick no longer does.

Allan
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Old Dec 03, 2011, 07:59 PM
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Andy,

I will try and see what exactly needs doing to a DSX11 for it to take a 35 MHz module. There is a possibility that the rear of the 11 has a pop on/off cover. If that is the case, then most of the hard work can be skipped.

Just had a thought, I don't know if the DSX11 firmware supports PPM/SPCM protocols, again... something I'll try and look into.
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Old Dec 04, 2011, 02:57 AM
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Anyone knows about a nice transmitter tray for the DSX11/11x?

I cant find one made spesific to fit these radio`s, and have no local hobbyshop to test fit etc etc..
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Old Dec 04, 2011, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWorrest View Post
Andy,

Concerning your glider with no flaps and just spoilerons..

Set up a glider on a cleared memory slot. When the initial setup asks for dual-flaps, set it to INH. Set up the BRAKE SYS menu in the function list ... go back to the Device Select menu and change the AUX2 [Device] from Spoiler Stick to one of the levers or switches. See if that lever or switch now doesn't control the brake functions and the spoiler stick no longer does.

Allan
Thanks, Allan. Yes, that works. I plugged some servos into a spare Orange 6CH receiver to try it.

I got very confused by it. There was nothing in the manual to tell me that one of the ailerons had to be plugged into the motor channel. I found out by accident. The clue is when you look at the Reverse switch settings - it labels the channels properly, and also told me the motor needs to be plugged into the gear channel.

The spoiler stick direction setting doesn't affect the spoilers, after doing that, and neither does reversing AUX2 or AUX3, oddly - either way, the spoilers were deployed at the lower end of the slider, not the top end. I found I could get the desired effect by setting points on the curves in the brake system though.

I also found I could assign the spoiler stick to the motor function. I forgot to check if the spoiler stick direction setting affects that before I put it all away. Presumably it does.

I managed to get a corrupt model memory on my first attempt. It kept locking up when selecting things from the menus. A couple of times I got the sub trims settings, without selecting them, but with everything locked up. On one attempt at switching off and back on again, I found myself in a menu labelled FACTORY MODE (or possible FACTORY MENU, I forget), with what looked like calibration options, and it asked me if I wanted to clear all data.

As it's a new radio, I panicked a bit in case that meant I'd have to send it back. Once I got it to switch to a different model memory it seemed okay, so I just left that one alone for a while, and started again with another one.

It was model number 30 that went wrong. I don't know if that's relevant to the problem. When I went back into it, the problem was still there, and it wasn't showing a model type next to it when I selected it. I switched back to another one, then deleted it. I repeated your instructions again to set the memory up a second time and the problem's gone now.

Has anyone else had problems like that?


theaton56,

Thanks, Any information about fitting different modules to it would be useful. I have some FrSky receivers and the modules to use with those are very cheap, so that would be a useful option. Naturally, I'm not in a hurry to do anything that would invalidate my guarantee, but once that runs out, I'll be getting the dremel and soldering iron out
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Last edited by Andy2No; Dec 04, 2011 at 10:43 PM.
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Old Dec 05, 2011, 01:43 PM
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There are several menus that list the channels' function in relation to their numerical order, the TRAVEL ADJ. LIMIT ADJ, SUBTRIM, REVERSE SW, and the MONITOR. I prefer the Monitor as it is purely informational (provide you don't activate the servo exerciser at the top of the screen). One is less likely to change something inadvertently. On the Monitor screen the upper left channel is channel #1, below that is channel #2, etc., until you come to the lower right which is the last channel. This information is helpful for the GLID programming as its functions are ordered differently from ACRO.

On my transmitter when I reverse the spoiler stick direction for the spoiler, it also reversed it for the motor channel. I was using the stick for both functions.

From other posts I've read, the procedure to access the service menu on JR transmitters is so involved that it is almost impossible to do it accidentally. You apparently stumble onto it for the 11X. The only time I came close to something like that is what I called the warning trap. I posted it on http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=30

Allan
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Old Dec 05, 2011, 02:16 PM
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Wow. Thanks for the warning. I'd hate to get it stuck like that when I took it to an indoor fly-in, and not be able to fly anything!

I've been meaning to ask if JR listen to feedback and update their firmwares accordingly. I got the impression the answer would be no, and that pretty much confirms it.

One thing that really bugs me so far is how awkward it is to do an incremental save of a model memory - i.e. Save rather than Save As. Being forced to delete the old file with the same name, then laboriously "type" the name again, with the video game high score table system, puts me off bothering to save it after I've made changes, which ideally, I'd like to be doing to get the best use out of the backup feature. I was surprised by how long it takes it to write a model memory to the card too.

I get that the file name on the SD card is only allowed to be DOS format 8 characters, and upper case (maybe for Mac as well as Windows compatibility?), so they can't use the same name that's used internally, but all that's needed is to store a file name as part of the model memory and let you save it again with that name as the default - they could still make you confirm you want to overwrite the old one, if that's what they want to do, and could still let you edit the filename before you save.

Ideally, I'd like to be able to tell it to save all model memories to the card in one go, but I don't suppose that will ever happen.

I didn't realise the order of the channels in the monitor had any significance. That's useful to know. Thanks.
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Old Dec 05, 2011, 04:15 PM
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Andy, email MacGregors with the various enhancements that you would like to see embedded. They will pass it on to JR who will look into it. As long as there isn't a major change away from the base coding, they may implement it.
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Old Dec 05, 2011, 04:59 PM
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theaton56,

Have they ever made changes based on a users suggestions like that?
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