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Old Mar 22, 2011, 02:47 AM
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David,

Do you have the 11X Zero as opposed to the 11X 2.4 sold in North America? There are differences in their programing especially in GLID. Postings on this thread at times fail to recognize that. If you have the Zero, I would hope that another Zero owner could help you. Otherwise, I'll have to pull out the manual I downloaded for it and still the programming that I come up with may not apply to your transmitter.

Allan
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Old Mar 22, 2011, 05:00 AM
D W
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I bought mine from A-Main Hobbies in the U.S.
I've been playing with it and have watched the nice video on the Flying Giants site but still haven't sorted it yet.
What I want is Flaperons, which isn't offered, as a wing type choice anyway, under Glider mode. Horizon tech suggested using Airplane mode but then I won't have those nice flight mode switch options designed for gliders...

I think once I'm shown what to do I'll realize how easy it is but for now I'm frustrated.

-David-
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Old Mar 23, 2011, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by D W View Post
. . .and use three postion flap switch for camber and flaps. Would like to use a launch preset and a seperate switch for speed (reflex). . .
I'm not sure if you want to tie the flight modes to the wing camber or if you want three separate modes in which you can independently adjust the camber. If it is the former, I would assume the modes would be launch with some downward flaperon and elevator compensation, normal with no camber, and reflex with upward flaperon and elevator.

If you use one of the rear sliders instead of a three-position switch for the camber control, you could put the GLID program to a greater advantage.

Allan
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Old Mar 23, 2011, 09:38 PM
D W
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Allan,

It's a Dlg so I would like a launch pre-set (some right rudder and some up)that I can flick off easily and quickly, on gear switch prob.
If you can talk me thru the whole set-up from the first screen, after naming model (even I can do that!) I'd really appreciate it.
Camber can be on the slider, I like that idea, and just go with the set-up that takes advantage of what the radio offers.
Anything you think is best is fine with me and alot better than what I have now...

-David-
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Old Mar 25, 2011, 10:05 PM
D W
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Allan,
Please help. It's the 2.4 version. Just show me the set up you would use and as I play with it I'll add my custom touches.

-David-
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Old Mar 26, 2011, 02:35 AM
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David,

The simplest way to program the GLID configuration for a flaperon plane sans flaps, is to use the program mixes. It takes only one or two. What is proposed will have the flaperons controlled by one of the rear sliders, using a program mix. Often in the GLID configuration, the flap channel is used as the master channel to control the flaperons through the premixes. With the flaperons being controlled directly, two of the premixes in the function list won't be used, the SLIDE CAMB and the FLAPERON MIX. The LANDING MODE is also unuseable as the flap channel will be inhibited. The flap stick can affect the DIFFERENTIAL if you set the BREAK to something other than 0%.

Start with a clean memory slot. In the initial setup choose GLID for TYPE SELECT and inhibit the DUAL- FLAP in the WING TYPE inquiry.

Go to the DEVICE SEL. menu. Inhibit the outputs for ALL the channels. Even though the channels' outputs are inhibited, they are still available for use in the program mixes. The GEAR channel will be used for flaperon control. Select a [DEVICE] for the GEAR channel, such as the CAMB LV which is the left rear slider. You could just as well have picked a switch if you wanted camber control to be in discreet steps.

On the left side of the DEVICE SEL. screen are the flight modes, REFLEX and LAUNCH. Initially both are inhibited. I suggest you use LAUNCH as only it gives you the option of reversing the modes on the switch that you will pick. Choose the GEAR SW as you only need two flight modes on a simple setup. Note the GEAR channel is completely dissociated from the GEAR SW.

The program mixes in GLID are different from those in ACRO. In ACRO, you can select a lever or switch for the master. As you probably have already noticed that in GLID, except for the flap stick, the master channel has to be a channel. To use the CAMBER LV to control the flaperons, you first have to tie it to a channel. That is why it was chosen as the controlling device for the GEAR channel in the DEVICE SEL. So with a normal program mix, mix GEAR -> FPRN.

If you want the CAMB LV to be active full time, fill in the upper and lower rates for POS0. However, I think it would be better that the CAMB LV is active only during the NORMAL flight mode and deactivated during LAUNCH. For this, leave the POS0 rates as zero and fill in the POS1 rates. Go to SW SEL and select NORM. At this point it is helpful to have the aircraft receiver bound to the transmitter so you can see the surface deflections as you input the rate values. If you left the program mix OFFSET at zero, when the slider is at its center, the flaperons will be neutral.

You may want to have elevator compensation when using the flaperons. So set up another program mix using GEAR -> ELEV. A curve mix for this might be advantageous.

The preset trims can be done either by using the regular trims in conjunction with the flight modes or by the CAMB PRESET menu or a combination of both. Initially use the regular trims to set the preset deflections. In the GLID configuration, the flap, flaperon, and elevator trims are always flight-mode dependent. By default the ailerons and rudder trim are also flight-mode dependent. But these two can be made to be common for all flight modes. Go to the TRIM SYSTEM menu and check the right side of the screen and it should read "AILE/RUDD TRIM: FMOD." To set the launch preset trims, first select the LAUNCH mode. Then use the normal trim levers to set the deflections you want. That is all to it. The default flaperon trim is the upper left-center spring loaded switch. When you switch to NORMAL flight modes, you can use a different set of trims for that mode.


The CAMB PRESET menu values are not really trims but sub trim offsets that are flight-mode dependent. The offsets set in the SUB TRIM menu are common to all modes. The ones in this menu are not. While the effect of these camber presets will be present on the aircraft and be indicated on the first page of the MONITOR menu screen, they will not show up as trims on the second page. Nor will they show up on the INFO screen trim bar graphs. After you have figured out what pre trims you need by the method describe in the above paragraph, you can replace them with CAMB PRESET values (except for the rudder) and return the trims to their centered positions. Then the trim steps can be set to a finer resolution.

Allan
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Old Mar 26, 2011, 10:54 AM
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Wow the complexity of programming a modern "simple" glider. My only glider experience predates computer radios.
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Old Mar 26, 2011, 05:18 PM
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I'll admit being wordy. But, the DLG program I posted is very simple and bare bones. I left out all the mixes that could be added to it. The condensed version of the program is: 1. Inhibit a channel, 2. Set a device for that channel, and 3. mix that channel into flaperons.

Actually DW's DLG can be programmed more simply and directly using the ACRO programming; however, he had already done that. JR's GLID programming, starting with the 9303, is intended for a full-house sailplane. In that programming, flaperons are indirectly controlled by the device controlling the flaps or by using the flap stick. Once that is understood, the programming is not too difficult.

Allan
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Old Mar 26, 2011, 08:28 PM
D W
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Thanks Allan!
I think perhaps JR should've offered flaperons as a wing type under glide mode. Would make the DLG set up simple. But I'm sure they have their reasons.

Thanks again. You'll hear from me again if I can't get 'er to work- fair warning!

-David-
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Old Mar 26, 2011, 08:38 PM
Electric baptism 1975
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Vernon, BC, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWorrest View Post
I'll admit being wordy. But, the DLG program I posted is very simple and bare bones. I left out all the mixes that could be added to it. The condensed version of the program is: 1. Inhibit a channel, 2. Set a device for that channel, and 3. mix that channel into flaperons.

Actually DW's DLG can be programmed more simply and directly using the ACRO programming; however, he had already done that. JR's GLID programming, starting with the 9303, is intended for a full-house sailplane. In that programming, flaperons are indirectly controlled by the device controlling the flaps or by using the flap stick. Once that is understood, the programming is not too difficult.

Allan
Oh no I meant no complaint & I was able to follow your instructions well (in my head). However it blows me away what computer radios have done for the HLG. Now I have been considering an electric glider for a couple of years; but with my luck I would steer away from the thermals not recognizing them.
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Old Mar 30, 2011, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWorrest View Post
David,

The simplest way to program the GLID configuration for a flaperon plane sans flaps, is to use the program mixes. It takes only one or two. What is proposed will have the flaperons controlled by one of the rear sliders, using a program mix. Often in the GLID configuration, the flap channel is used as the master channel to control the flaperons through the premixes. With the flaperons being controlled directly, two of the premixes in the function list won't be used, the SLIDE CAMB and the FLAPERON MIX. The LANDING MODE is also unuseable as the flap channel will be inhibited. The flap stick can affect the DIFFERENTIAL if you set the BREAK to something other than 0%.

Start with a clean memory slot. In the initial setup choose GLID for TYPE SELECT and inhibit the DUAL- FLAP in the WING TYPE inquiry.

Go to the DEVICE SEL. menu. Inhibit the outputs for ALL the channels. Even though the channels' outputs are inhibited, they are still available for use in the program mixes. The GEAR channel will be used for flaperon control. Select a [DEVICE] for the GEAR channel, such as the CAMB LV which is the left rear slider. You could just as well have picked a switch if you wanted camber control to be in discreet steps.

On the left side of the DEVICE SEL. screen are the flight modes, REFLEX and LAUNCH. Initially both are inhibited. I suggest you use LAUNCH as only it gives you the option of reversing the modes on the switch that you will pick. Choose the GEAR SW as you only need two flight modes on a simple setup. Note the GEAR channel is completely dissociated from the GEAR SW.

The program mixes in GLID are different from those in ACRO. In ACRO, you can select a lever or switch for the master. As you probably have already noticed that in GLID, except for the flap stick, the master channel has to be a channel. To use the CAMBER LV to control the flaperons, you first have to tie it to a channel. That is why it was chosen as the controlling device for the GEAR channel in the DEVICE SEL. So with a normal program mix, mix GEAR -> FPRN.

If you want the CAMB LV to be active full time, fill in the upper and lower rates for POS0. However, I think it would be better that the CAMB LV is active only during the NORMAL flight mode and deactivated during LAUNCH. For this, leave the POS0 rates as zero and fill in the POS1 rates. Go to SW SEL and select NORM. At this point it is helpful to have the aircraft receiver bound to the transmitter so you can see the surface deflections as you input the rate values. If you left the program mix OFFSET at zero, when the slider is at its center, the flaperons will be neutral.

You may want to have elevator compensation when using the flaperons. So set up another program mix using GEAR -> ELEV. A curve mix for this might be advantageous.

The preset trims can be done either by using the regular trims in conjunction with the flight modes or by the CAMB PRESET menu or a combination of both. Initially use the regular trims to set the preset deflections. In the GLID configuration, the flap, flaperon, and elevator trims are always flight-mode dependent. By default the ailerons and rudder trim are also flight-mode dependent. But these two can be made to be common for all flight modes. Go to the TRIM SYSTEM menu and check the right side of the screen and it should read "AILE/RUDD TRIM: FMOD." To set the launch preset trims, first select the LAUNCH mode. Then use the normal trim levers to set the deflections you want. That is all to it. The default flaperon trim is the upper left-center spring loaded switch. When you switch to NORMAL flight modes, you can use a different set of trims for that mode.


The CAMB PRESET menu values are not really trims but sub trim offsets that are flight-mode dependent. The offsets set in the SUB TRIM menu are common to all modes. The ones in this menu are not. While the effect of these camber presets will be present on the aircraft and be indicated on the first page of the MONITOR menu screen, they will not show up as trims on the second page. Nor will they show up on the INFO screen trim bar graphs. After you have figured out what pre trims you need by the method describe in the above paragraph, you can replace them with CAMB PRESET values (except for the rudder) and return the trims to their centered positions. Then the trim steps can be set to a finer resolution.

Allan
I vote for this to be made a 'stickies' !
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Old Jun 09, 2011, 10:59 AM
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Hi all - I am a new 11X owner and would really appreciate assistance with getting it programmed. I spent a good 3+ hours last night working on it but no joy.

I am trying to setup a Voltij four channel aerobatics glider which has two fullspan flaperons along with rudder and elevator. I am using an AR6200 receiver, with the right aileron plugged into "AIL" and the left aileron plugged into "AUX1".

Here's what I want to accomplish:

- Snapflap (camber/reflex when elevator input, with deadband around center)

- Camber/reflex on throttle stick, with centered (50%) throttle = neutral trailing edge. Also want to have deadband on this so I have a bit of wiggle room in case I don't return the stick precisely to center. And I want to have elevator compensation as well.

Easy, right? LOL I must be an idiot - I'm coming from a Multiplex Profi 4000 and I just need a little help getting over the hump.

Thanks in advance!

Steve
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Old Jun 09, 2011, 08:52 PM
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Steve,

If your Voltij is not a motor glider I would suggest you program the 11X in GLID and not ACRO. This will allow you to more easily program the throttle stick for camber control as this is its purpose when in GLID. GLID does not have premixes with the deadbands you want. To get them you will program your own using both of the switch position switches and three program mixes.

The way to set this up is to choose the GLID type. When asked about DUAL-FLAP choose INH. The next step may not be necessary but in the DEVICE SEL, INH the output of GEAR, FLAP, and AUX2.

As another precaution, in the function list's LANDING MODE menu set all the rates on the first page to zero. This menus uses throttle/spoiler stick to control the flaps and elevator and if it is inadvertently activated, it will conflict with your camber control.

In the STICK POS. SW menu, activate SPS0: ELEV, SYM: ON, AREA: CENTER, POS: D & U to some values of your choosing such as 30. Do the same for SPS1 for the FLAP.

In PROGRAM MIX1, mix #ELE (nothing included) -> FPRN Set both POS0 rates to some values, -50% as a guess. Leave both POS1 rates as zeros. In the SEL SW, set SPS0 to 1. Leave the OFFSET: zero. Check that the flaperons move in the right direction for the elevator stick, otherwise change the polarity of the POS0 rates.

In PROGRAM MIX2, mix FSTK -> FPRN. Set it up the same as PROGRAM MIX1 except for the SEL SW set SPS1 to 1 and check SPS0 is set to zero.

In PROGRAM MIX3, mix FSTK -> ELEV. Set it up the same as PROGRAM MIX 2 using SPS1 as the select switch. Check the flaperons and elevator move in the right directions.

The channel assignments are different in GLID. The left aileron is on channel 1 and the right is on channel 2. BTW, I've had an 11X for some time and the solution to your problem was not immediately obvious.

Allan
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Old Jun 10, 2011, 02:18 AM
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Holy cow! Thank you Allan!!! That must've taken a bit of effort to get copied down, I really appreciate the time you spent to help me!

I will study your solution, try to implement it and report back the results. Thank you again for taking the time, I really appreciate it

Steve
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Old Jun 14, 2011, 02:23 AM
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Hi Allan, just wanted to come back to this thread and confirm that your instructions worked great! I now feel like I have a much better core grasp of the way the radio functions. My biggest stumbling block was simply not knowing where to plug in the aileron servos - if this is indicated somewhere in the manual, I will be darned if I can find it!

Really some pretty interesting capability here with regards to the stick position and turning on/off mixes - cool!

The only thing I would really love to have would be an expo curve with a flat part around middle rather than using the "hard" approach of the SPS0 and SPS1 triggers. I asked for deadband and I've got it - thanks!! - but is there a way to accomplish the same effect while allow a more gradual transition into the mixes? Following the instructions above, once the stick position fires the mix, it makes the flaperons "snap" to a position calculated from the stick position once past the deadband zone - meaning they jump from 0% (center/neutral trim) to something like 20% with no graduation in between. I'd rather they start from center position once the deadband area had been passed, and then move proportionally from there. Does that even make sense?

Thank you again so much for this help, it is most appreciated!!

Steve
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