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Old Sep 29, 2009, 03:19 PM
I want it to go fast...
c0dem0nkey's Avatar
San Diego
Joined Sep 2006
797 Posts
Build Log
The Shredder (twisty wing awesomeness)

The Shredder (whos mystery is only exceeded by its power) has been haunting my dreams and fantasies for well over two years. I remember seeing the name Shredder posted in one of the TWF threads and quickly did a search. The search turned up numerous posts containing Shredder all with the same general message...

Amazing Performance!
Big grins for low dollars
Sleeper ship of the slope
Fast, Stable, and Really Fast
For the money there should be more on the slopes

The search only turned up a handful (like 5..seriously) of pictures of this awesome plane. And I have only seen one video. The pictures I
did see though only fueled my excitement and lust for the plane. I began my quest to acquire one a few months ago..and was surprised to have one sitting at my feet within days (not the weeks or months I expected).

I pulled everything out of the box..looked at for a while....giving it a good table fly in its raw state. And then I put everything back in the box.
I put the box under my desk and there it sat for the last 6 months...staring me in the face everyday. Enough is enough! Last week I acquired some 3.4 oz uni carbon to help move the project along. (though...I've never worked with carbon cloth)

I have thought long and hard about posting this build thread. Not wanting to embarrass myself. I am not an expert builder by any means but I do consider myself better than bad. I have limited shop resources( Its being built on the kitchen table dude) so my building will reflect this.

Please ask or comment on anything.
Dan
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Old Sep 29, 2009, 03:24 PM
Deniable plausibility
Shedofdread's Avatar
Derbyshire, UK
Joined Aug 2008
2,327 Posts
Get building! As someone else who's been bitten by the whole TW 'thing', I'll be looking forward to seeing this one move forward.

S
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Old Sep 29, 2009, 03:25 PM
I want it to go fast...
c0dem0nkey's Avatar
San Diego
Joined Sep 2006
797 Posts
The Shredder (twisty wing awesomeness)

I am planning on sheeting the wings with 1/64th ply and have a layer of 3.4oz uni carbon between the foam and the ply. I do not have vacuum bagging equipment so I was going to do one side at a time with all the weight I can find stacked on it. While it is in the core beds of course.

First thing I needed to do was clean up the cores and make the cuts for the wing joiners. Then I traced the core on the ply and cut that out.

This is my first time dealing with carbon cloth. It looks like it can be messy but so far things are working for me. After I measured some out, I sprayed it lightly with Hi-90 ( I didn't have 3M77 around ). I was told this helps it stay together so I can cut my pattern out.

I cut the carbon for the bottom of the right out board(wing panel). My first question...do you think it is necessary to reinforce the area
above the wing join with an additional layer of carbon cloth...going the other direction. It seems a bit heavy to me...I do have some very light fiber glass as well.
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Old Sep 29, 2009, 03:41 PM
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Ward Hagaman's Avatar
San Diego
Joined Mar 2003
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I don't think you need the extra carbon.

Ward
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Old Sep 29, 2009, 04:25 PM
Deniable plausibility
Shedofdread's Avatar
Derbyshire, UK
Joined Aug 2008
2,327 Posts
If you haven't got a vac pump, why not use a press? Two bits of kitchen worktop, some studding, nuts and washers or big clamps. Loads of pressure and dead simple. That way, you won't need the 1/64 ply outer layer.

Just a thought,

S
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Old Sep 29, 2009, 05:02 PM
I want it to go fast...
c0dem0nkey's Avatar
San Diego
Joined Sep 2006
797 Posts
I've thought about building a press.

If I was going to go with the mylar carbon lay up approach that would be the way to go.

But theses cores have the first 1/4 inch of the LE cut off.

I have two sets of cores....perhaps on the next set of wings I can add a balsa LE and do carbon and glass layup.

I am a bit concerned about just laying up the bottom side first and not the top and bottom at the same time.

The TE is so thin..almost non-existant..that if I layup the bottom TE with to much epoxy..I would have issues (with bleed through) when I try and layup the top skin.

Mountains out of mole hills I'm sure.
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Old Sep 29, 2009, 05:02 PM
Ask me about VTPR
oldscooler's Avatar
America
Joined Aug 2002
2,223 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by c0dem0nkey
I have thought long and hard about posting this build thread. Not wanting to embarrass myself. I am not an expert builder by any means but I do consider myself better than bad. I have limited shop resources( Its being built on the kitchen table dude) so my building will reflect this.

Please ask or comment on anything.
Dan
Hey Dan,
I love your thread here! Its great seeing the old "kitchen table" building technique still alive in 2009. Just fantastic in keeping it simple and doing the best you can with what you have. Dont get discouraged, remember, NASCAR was designed on a napkin in a restaurant around beers and lunch!

Who needs a fancy shop to build...EJ
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Old Sep 29, 2009, 05:16 PM
Deniable plausibility
Shedofdread's Avatar
Derbyshire, UK
Joined Aug 2008
2,327 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by c0dem0nkey
I've thought about building a press.

If I was going to go with the mylar carbon lay up approach that would be the way to go.

But theses cores have the first 1/4 inch of the LE cut off.

I have two sets of cores....perhaps on the next set of wings I can add a balsa LE and do carbon and glass layup.

I am a bit concerned about just laying up the bottom side first and not the top and bottom at the same time.

The TE is so thin..almost non-existant..that if I layup the bottom TE with to much epoxy..I would have issues (with bleed through) when I try and layup the top skin.

Mountains out of mole hills I'm sure.
I only ever do one side at a time (always top first because curvature makes it stiffer and therefore easier handling in workshop). If you 'squeegee' the resin out and use enough pressure, you don't have a problem. Just remember to abrade any areas of resin where more resin must then adhere to it.

As to the LE, skin as far as the LE then add hardwood LE. Prime, paint and know one will know (unless they read this etc etc).

S
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Old Sep 29, 2009, 05:19 PM
If it ain't broke...break it!
Hangtight's Avatar
South Coast, UK
Joined Jun 2006
912 Posts
Guys have been using fish tank pumps set up to suck rather than blow to bag and sheet cores with good results. Vac setup for the same price as a few beers.
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Old Sep 29, 2009, 05:22 PM
C4X
Glider Junkie Beyond Help
C4X's Avatar
Canada, BC, Roberts Creek
Joined Nov 2008
618 Posts
Go man go! Nearly everything I have built in this fine hobby has been from a kitchen table, the minimum gets it done.
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Old Sep 29, 2009, 10:11 PM
more casual than stylish....
slopemeno's Avatar
Joined Jan 2003
6,985 Posts
I built mine just by pressing 1/64th ply over the blue foam, and then painting the ply. Overall, mine is probably TOO light, as it'll fly in very, very light lift.


They actually thermal great, with a touch of a tip-stall at the low-speed/pulling up and turning limit. They carve and loop like there's no tomorrow.

On landing, I fly about 200' below the lip, fly a 360, and come up for my approach. The 360 seems to scrub off enough energy to make the landings easier. Try to avoid the "too-fast" landing, as the plane will spin 180 degrees and blow over backwards, and either break the boom or break your tail joiners. I finally went to 1/8" music wire for the tail joiners, and added some carbon at the 6:00 and 12:00 on the boom to make it stronger.

On my next one, I want to reduce the dihedral, go to some stronger servos, and put a ballast tube in it...somewhere.

You'll love how this plane flies.
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Old Sep 29, 2009, 11:41 PM
Retired USAF
cynjon's Avatar
USA, SD, Piedmont
Joined Jul 2005
2,910 Posts
I *really* need to get building on my Shredder as well...got a few in the que ahead of it still unfortunately. I DO have the 1/64" ply already though--not easy to come by around here.

I'll be watching with interest...if you run into any snags be sure to PM Doubletap. He's one of the Mark Grand/Shredder gurus around here and a top-notch builder to boot. He's got some great Shredder pics in his blog.
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Old Sep 30, 2009, 12:04 AM
I want it to go fast...
c0dem0nkey's Avatar
San Diego
Joined Sep 2006
797 Posts
The Shredder (twisty wing awesomeness)

I think I hit a snag already. It would appear the cores were cut a bit wonkie.

The TE looks like it bends down to much...this looks off to me. I decided to sand down the core bed a bit to get a more level TE.
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Old Sep 30, 2009, 05:31 AM
Deniable plausibility
Shedofdread's Avatar
Derbyshire, UK
Joined Aug 2008
2,327 Posts
Are you sure the cores haven't been cut such that the core ends before the end of the blank? Some people do this to give a nicer TE. Also the TE of RG12 would need that little bit of a concave region.

Or put another way check with the designer before commiting sanding block to foam!

S
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Old Sep 30, 2009, 11:23 AM
Fun ain't cheap!
droydx's Avatar
United States, CA, Santa Barbara
Joined Apr 2003
3,035 Posts
Shed is correct, the bed cores are oversized to support the sheeting at the TE.
Carefuly trim the TE of the cores to the correct sze with a sharp razor blade and a long steel straight edge. The cores will be shorter than the wing width shown on the plans by about 1/4 to 1/8 inch. Trim your sheeting to the correct width indicated on the plans. When I do sheeted wings, I stack from bottom bed up: sheet of wax paper, (so that any epoxy doesnt glue the sheeting to the beds) sheeting, core, sheeting, wax paper, top core bed. Take care to line up the LE so that it is flush with the front of the core beds. Use a top piece of shelving or other flat wood and then put a lot of weigth on top!

Andy


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shedofdread
Are you sure the cores haven't been cut such that the core ends before the end of the blank? Some people do this to give a nicer TE. Also the TE of RG12 would need that little bit of a concave region.

Or put another way check with the designer before commiting sanding block to foam!

S
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