Discussion AMA gets some help

[Red Scholefield]

Originally Posted by Charley38

What, over Red's hearsay? Ya gotta be kidding!

Whether you liked SFA or not, it had a seminal impact on AMA. AMA is a lot more aware of the sport flyers in its membership now than before SFA. Likewise, the flying site assistance program could be traced back to SFA's efforts on the part of clubs having flying site problems. I seem to remember a club in the DFW area that had charter insurance problems until they went with SFA.
Forget it, it's all water over the dam now.

CR

That water went over the dam nearly 10 years ago.

All American Modelers Association, Inc. trading as Sport Flyers of America II
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ATTENTION: This NOTICE applies to all indiviudals, clubs, site owners and additional insureds who purchased a membership with Sport Flyers of America II prior to February 25, 2000 and received subsequent proof of insurance (a year 2000 membership card and/or certificate of insurance).

Dated: March 1, 2000

I'm very sorry to have to advise members that All American Modelers Association, Inc. trading as Sport Flyers of America II is ceasing its operations immediately

.

As for hearsay, I post dates and names, while you "seem to remember".

[hondaflyer]

Originally Posted by nybbler

It's not the Internet. Any sort of similar organization, if at all successful, ends up with an "inner circle" of people who are interested in running the club, and a bunch of people who just pay dues and take advantage of the benefits.

Problem is, the "inner circle" usually aren't that for the best of reasons. Often it's because they have the most time on their hands, or the most desire for control. In the former case, they pretty soon begin complaining about the situation, how they're doing "all the work". And they'll try to enlist other members to do some of the work... BUT, just the work part, not any of the actual decision-making power. That usually doesn't work out too well. It irritates the members, and it makes the "inner circle" feel unappreciated. The inner circle breaks up, and the organization flounders.

In the latter case, the inner circle start doing things to benefit themselves or simply exert power at the expense of the other members. If the members complain, they're told they should take some position of responsibility with the organization (which, as above, is not really a position of responsibility -- it just means they do work decided upon by the inner circle without decision-making power). In this case, the membership shrinks, and again the organization flounders.

I'm not a member of any flying club, but I have seen this happen with other sorts of clubs.

This is a nice story, easy to digest, and makes sense.
Except for one thing.

It puts the blame on the leadership, and not on the membership--where it belongs.

The same people who don't show up to do the work of the club, are the same ones who don't show up at meetings to hear what is going on, and they don't show up to vote to change direction of the club, if needed.

I feel sorry for no one who displays that kind of irresponsibility. The club deserves only the kind of leadership it elects.

The above assumes, of course, elections are allowed in the club bylaws.

[bjpaul]

Hey you are messing with a great American Tradition......... complaining about leadership without getting actually involved.......

What % vote in AMA EC elections? Somebody will know the actual %, but I bet it is less then 20%.........

The voters always get what they deserve........

[DreamArcher]

Originally Posted by nybbler

It's not the Internet. Any sort of similar organization, if at all successful, ends up with an "inner circle" of people who are interested in running the club, and a bunch of people who just pay dues and take advantage of the benefits.

Problem is, the "inner circle" usually aren't that for the best of reasons. Often it's because they have the most time on their hands, or the most desire for control. In the former case, they pretty soon begin complaining about the situation, how they're doing "all the work". And they'll try to enlist other members to do some of the work... BUT, just the work part, not any of the actual decision-making power. That usually doesn't work out too well. It irritates the members, and it makes the "inner circle" feel unappreciated. The inner circle breaks up, and the organization flounders.

In the latter case, the inner circle start doing things to benefit themselves or simply exert power at the expense of the other members. If the members complain, they're told they should take some position of responsibility with the organization (which, as above, is not really a position of responsibility -- it just means they do work decided upon by the inner circle without decision-making power). In this case, the membership shrinks, and again the organization flounders.

I'm not a member of any flying club, but I have seen this happen with other sorts of clubs.

I submit SACRC for having a poor attitude in this regards.

Summary: Gas and jets banned for new members. i.e. new members pay the same dues as old members but have different rights. If you don't like it, to bad, go somewhere else.

"If you do not agree with this ban, then please join another club."

http://sacrc.org/

I do not have the capacity to fly either but I'll pass on the attitude just the same.

[bjpaul]

Originally Posted by DreamArcher

I submit SACRC for having a poor attitude in this regards.

Summary: Gas and jets banned for new members. i.e. new members pay the same dues as old members but have different rights. If you don't like it, to bad, go somewhere else.

"If you do not agree with this ban, then please join another club."

http://sacrc.org/

I do not have the capacity to fly either but I'll pass on the attitude just the same.

I am willing to bet that as Paul Harvey would say "now for the rest of the story" about the reason and background to that.

[Red Scholefield]

Originally Posted by bjpaul

Hey you are messing with a great American Tradition......... complaining about leadership without getting actually involved.......

What % vote in AMA EC elections? Somebody will know the actual %, but I bet it is less then 20%.........

The voters always get what they deserve........

You win the bet easily. The last National Election was 2008 for Executive VP. There were 16747 votes cast from 148487 members. Of course this included Jr. members that do not have a vote, but it would still put the % voting at below 12%.

[DreamArcher]

I live in Union City and know the area. I have no doubt their reason is true and valid. It's just the double standard and attitude about the double standard I pass on. Either reduce the dues for new members that are restricted or make the rules the same for everybody... and drop the attitude. The area is convenient for me but it won't kill me to not fly there so it's ok.

[Red Scholefield]

Originally Posted by bjpaul

I am willing to bet that as Paul Harvey would say "now for the rest of the story" about the reason and background to that.

Makes sense to me.

From the club web page:

Please be aware that the club has banned GAS and TURBINE powered aircraft for all new members and all guests. This was implemented due to large gas powered aircraft over flying housing close to our flying field. If this were to happen again, we could lose our flying field. So this ban was implemented so that we can continue flying at our field. Glow and Electric aircraft are still allowed for new members.

[hondaflyer]

Originally Posted by DreamArcher

I submit SACRC for having a poor attitude in this regards.

Summary: Gas and jets banned for new members. i.e. new members pay the same dues as old members but have different rights. If you don't like it, to bad, go somewhere else.

"If you do not agree with this ban, then please join another club."

http://sacrc.org/

I do not have the capacity to fly either but I'll pass on the attitude just the same.

So, is this a permanent ban for all new members, or is it a probationary period type thing?

[hondaflyer]

Originally Posted by Red Scholefield

You win the bet easily. The last National Election was 2008 for Executive VP. There were 16747 votes cast from 148487 members. Of course this included Jr. members that do not have a vote, but it would still put the % voting at below 12%.

To be fair, although I don't agree with the philosophy, it might be somewhat understandable that more folks don't vote in the national election; other than what a candidate says on the forums, or in MA, it is really hard to know what they really stand for, degree of honesty, etc. IOW, a sort of disconnect between the candidate and the voters.
But at the club level, this can be no excuse.

You will either know the candidate personally, or at least know someone who knows them.

[DreamArcher]

Originally Posted by hondaflyer

So, is this a permanent ban for all new members, or is it a probationary period type thing?

It would be nice if it was a probationary period. That way new members will have time to invest in the club and have a reason to make an effort to not fly over the caretakers house. I understand that can be valid. Still the attitude toward it puts me off.

[nybbler]

Red, honda and BJ, you're doing a bang-up job of illustrating my point.

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by nybbler

It's not the Internet. Any sort of similar organization, if at all successful, ends up with an "inner circle" of people who are interested in running the club, and a bunch of people who just pay dues and take advantage of the benefits.

Problem is, the "inner circle" usually aren't that for the best of reasons. Often it's because they have the most time on their hands, or the most desire for control. In the former case, they pretty soon begin complaining about the situation, how they're doing "all the work". And they'll try to enlist other members to do some of the work... BUT, just the work part, not any of the actual decision-making power. That usually doesn't work out too well. It irritates the members, and it makes the "inner circle" feel unappreciated. The inner circle breaks up, and the organization flounders.

In the latter case, the inner circle start doing things to benefit themselves or simply exert power at the expense of the other members. If the members complain, they're told they should take some position of responsibility with the organization (which, as above, is not really a position of responsibility -- it just means they do work decided upon by the inner circle without decision-making power). In this case, the membership shrinks, and again the organization flounders.

I'm not a member of any flying club, but I have seen this happen with other sorts of clubs.

Nybbler, this is one of the most succinct and well worded descriptions of club dynamics I've ever read. I've seen this happen so many times over the years, I couldn't begin to count. I've seen it happen in small clubs up to large organizations, exactly as you described.

I'm keeping a copy of this.

Chuck

[Mode One]

To get back to the original "AMA gets some help" thread, is there any new news about the USAMA?

Another interesting point about internet forums is; I find I can agree and have many common opinions about controversial subjects with people who I consider the opposition and maybe even my enemy! I guess there are people who simply rub me the wrong way and I likely do the same to them. Now, if we could just quit being JERKS to each other!

[Dr. Sandy Frank]

Originally Posted by Mode One

To get back to the original "AMA gets some help" thread, is there any new news about the USAMA?

I could care less !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!