Kinkade Sure-Glide device - Page 4

snrek · Oct 06, 2009, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tres Wright

Sorry to hear it didn't go so well! I broke a rod or two on my YH, it's been a few years but I know I broke at least one until I was able to get it trimmed and flying right. So welcome to the broken spar club

I wouldn't fly it with only one side repaired and the other side stock because if there's any difference in rod stiffness between the two sides it's really going to throw off the bird's balance.

Based on my many SH flights I would suggest staying off the controls on launch until you get a fair bit of altitude. Until it has a little speed going, directional inputs (especially up elevator) tend to slow it to near-stall. Launch it straight into the wind and let it climb on its own using minimal stick input to keep it into the wind. Launch it level or slightly nose up, but don't launch it high alpha. Sounds like your launch went fine, but I'm putting this here for the benefit of others who may need the info as well

You mentioned it dropping altitude in the turns, sounds like the tail angle may be too steep. The first few flights on my YH went terribly because I had the tail too high, it couldn't build enough speed to fly well. Too much tail angle ("up" elevator) will not induce a nose-up attitude on these birds like it does on a plane, it just slows them waaaaay down and makes them fly sloppy. You might try adjusting the tail down slightly for the next flight.

Good luck!

Thanks for the info. Sounds like you have had some good experience on these models and are confirming what Sean had mentioned to me. He said that even CF rod to CF rod there could be differencies in flex so I'll plan on using the rod in rod repair for both sides. I'll probably order a couple of solid CF rods from Sean as well. And thanks for the welcome to the broken spar club.

RKIRCHNER · Oct 06, 2009, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tres Wright

Hey Rick, yours is probably an SH3, does it have equal-sized final gears on both sides of the body? My SH2 drew around 8 amps at WOT on the brushed motor before I put the Axi on it. I'm thinking it will take at least 5 or 6 amps at WOT to get good performance out of it, any less than that and it probably won't climb very well (and particularly may not have any reserve power for "getting out of trouble"). Let us know what you find out if you test yours

What color did you get? After I got the new Shrike I placed another order with Nathan for a 2nd SH. My older one is midnight (dark blue) with yellow trim, the new one is red with black trim. It's actually for my son, he's only 6 but I have dreams of the two of us flying SH's in formation some day

He's getting his feet wet with smaller ornis right now, he has an iFly Vamp and the indoor astronaut orni (forget the name).

I think this is a SH2. there is one large final gear on the right side only. The motor looks like a standard Mabuchi speed 400 size. I got a red one. How about a Cybird for your son? I've had a ball with the one I got from nathan last spring. When he announced the sale on the bigger birds I couldn't resist. So many models so little time! Rick

G-LO · Oct 06, 2009, 08:08 PM

"Crash & burn, huhn Mave..."like Tres said it happens to us ALL. Yes..Welcome to the club! My parkhawk & slowhawk had broken several wings before i got use to flying it... and its handfull of weird flying situations i put it in. When you FIRST fly these things, it hard( for me) to know what to really expect....."should i fly it like an airplane? Should i fly it like Sean; Like on the videos he and the others had made!?...I don't know about anybody else, but my hart fells like it's about to do a flying back kick out my chest~.! Like Tres-one of the vets of the group and DEFINITLEY Sean "THE Man-" said, give yourself Plenty of space, and take it up...altitude is your "friend". And no sudden turns .At least until you truly know how your ornithopter flies.. If you can..not to hot rod in your bird.These New motors are Powerfullll! I have the GHs' big brother the lazy hawk. Man, youll be up before you know it...who knows, it may just fly better after that crash ,mine did!? It will fly just fine next time.

the_only_kris_20 · Oct 06, 2009, 08:33 PM

sorry to hear that snrek. i didnt get mine up today there was like 15 mph winds all day im beginning to think i wont get to really fly it til the spring. And right now im like a kid in a candy store with no money lol. I cant wait to get it up.

G-LO · Oct 06, 2009, 08:53 PM

Hey Snrek, I almost forgot to ask concerning a private place to fly. Do you ride by several schools in your area and check their yards? That what my brother and i do if the other fields are being hogged up by alot of people.. Just in case sean gets super busy with with putting out orders, this place i found that has cf rods: cstsales.com /1800-338-1278. Cf rods can be pricey, so shop around. RC Groups has plenty of helpful folks to help you out with this.

snrek · Oct 06, 2009, 09:15 PM

Thanks for the encouragement and it is nice to belong, even if it is the broken spar club.

I did the rod in rod thingy, I used thin CA the length of the inner rods and shoved them into the larger ones. I then tried comparing them against the one good solid CF rod I have and I really can’t tell much difference.

Here is my testing method…..Grasp one rod and flex it, grasp the other and flex it. I thought the solid one had more resistance but after a couple of glasses of wine I am convinced the two piece one gives slightly more resistance, go figure.

Anyway I am putting the two piece spar design in both wings. I also changed the C.G. back to center or maybe a hair further back and I reset the tail to around 20 degrees, I had 30 prior.

I don’t know Sean, his wife or probably anyone else he knows so this is not an endorsement but I wanted to say he has been really great prior to, during and after my purchase. At one point today I had called him from the hobby store, he didn’t answer and I didn’t leave a message but he called me back and wanted details of my experience. Can’t say I get that with any of the other models I’ve flown. Wait….I did get a set of wheel pants once from E-Flite for free, the ones that were in the kit were destroyed, a quick pic of the un-opened bag and an email got me a replacement set. But seriously, I have had a great experience with Sean…..Now if this dam bird would just fly…….

G-Lo, I do fly at other places, schools, churches, etc. I even fly over a sheep pasture next to my house. I just prefer to do my testing in a larger area. Thanks for the CF info also. -snrek aka -Rick

the_only_kris_20 · Oct 06, 2009, 09:41 PM

snrek how are you measuring your tail angle. I couldnt figure out a good way as far as i could tell i had it set to 25 degrees.

G-LO · Oct 06, 2009, 09:41 PM

Snrek can the new rod n rod actually fix in the ferrels!? Its diameter is'nt too big or small? It works?

snrek · Oct 06, 2009, 10:20 PM

As far as setting the tail angle I just eye ball the tail to the wings when they look level to the fuse. (Or 90 degrees to the fuse). I don’t know if this is the right way but I look at where 45 would be and back off from there.

The rod in rod looks like a good fix, the smaller rod has a little clearance inside the larger rod but using thin CA to bond them together might get it close to imitating a solid rod. I did have to hand ream the hole in the alum. block so the .157 rod slipped in. The CF rod I purchased is .157" O.D. X .098 I.D. and the smaller rod was marked .098" I will test fly my hawk again sometime this week. Maybe take another l u n c h break!

EDIT: I removed some of my babble and I now have my bird repaired and ready to give it a go…..

snrek · Oct 07, 2009, 03:31 PM

It fly’s, well sort of……I made it out for a couple of test flights. The tail setting was too low, I had it set to around 20 degrees and no climb at all. I kept the throttle at ¾ and the flight path was veering slightly to the right without any input so I set it back down about 75 feet out. The next flight was short as well but I had added in as much Tx trim as I could to get a little more tail angle, powered it up and tossed it. Still slow to climb but I gave it full throttle and a little up on the stick. It started climbing but still veering to the right so I powered down and it pigeon glided to a nice landing. So even though they were short flights I didn’t break anything. When I get home I’ll change the tail back to around 30 degrees, add a paper clip to the left wing and do some more testing/trimming when I get the time.

G-LO · Oct 07, 2009, 04:38 PM

Snrek, just a little word of caution.I would do a little more testing then I would call or email Sean. I've been right where you were with my parkhawk. I say contact Sean because to see if he can send more ferrels.... i could be messing some facts with what you already did or spoke to someone about your bird. But I TRULY fell that if purchased another set of stock cf-rods and tried again, but this time..with non-modified ferrels and it "would" fly. You just had an inferior rod..that beautiful bird should have been flying. My lazyhawk has the same cf-rods and a little bit more wing area..believe me, I am ALWAYS anticipating a rod breakage when flying a few times until they prove their worthiness. Just dont cartwheel or cloth-line a tree or pole with the bird and you'll be fine.. Sean makes very good birds with extensive testing for the most part!

G-LO · Oct 07, 2009, 04:58 PM

HOWEVER Snrek!...Ask Sean if he sent you the "right" con-rods. Sometimes the bird would'nt climb out because of too much dihedrel.(misspelled?) If.. that is the con-rods are "a hair" too long.

snrek · Oct 07, 2009, 05:14 PM

G-Lo, I'll have a good flying hawk once I sort out a few minor details. It is probably a good flyer already (In the right hands).

I have already set the tail angle back to where I had it because it did climb pretty well on the maiden flight and I decided to do a little Tx trimming before I go to the paper clip. I have spoken with Sean, he has been great and has given me good advice. I think the rods I made are going to will work pretty good. Sean said when it comes to these rods that they both need to be consistent in stiffness and length to one another. He said he has used the hollow type rods in the past. Part of the reason he went to the solid was to be able to hold the rod in the aluminum block with a set screw without cracking the rod, there are other reasons as well. One of his suggestions was to just put a small plug in the end of the hollow tube so the set screw has a place to tighten up. There are tradeoffs, he said this would lighten the bird up some but loose a little strength. I like his thinking it gives us a chance to be creative in getting our birds to be ‘ours’. If that makes any sense.

G-LO · Oct 07, 2009, 05:46 PM

Yes Snrek, that make sense. If im not mistaking, "BenC" a few year ago did something like that...correct me if i am wrong.*But,..he inserted a 4" brass rods in his hollow cf rods from the ferrels.It add a little weight, but nothing to cry about. If you check the "search" slowhawk/carbon fibers, you might see it. Or someone will chime in for the more direct approach. Im on my phone ....

Tres Wright · Oct 07, 2009, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RKIRCHNER

I think this is a SH2. there is one large final gear on the right side only. The motor looks like a standard Mabuchi speed 400 size. I got a red one. How about a Cybird for your son? I've had a ball with the one I got from nathan last spring. When he announced the sale on the bigger birds I couldn't resist. So many models so little time! Rick

You are correct Rick

I got my SH from Nathan today and it is indeed an SH2 just like my old one. My new Shrike has the "new" gear design as does the new Glide Hawk (I don't have a GH, but per the pics posted it's the new gear design too), so I assumed the gears had been changed on all of them but apparently not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by snrek

G-Lo, I'll have a good flying hawk once I sort out a few minor details. It is probably a good flyer already (In the right hands).

I have already set the tail angle back to where I had it because it did climb pretty well on the maiden flight and I decided to do a little Tx trimming before I go to the paper clip.

Well you're on the right track for sure

That's the way to do it- fly straight with a gentle climb and if it doesn't cooperate then land it and make adjustments. It takes some walking to retrieve doing it this way, but it saves breaking parts. Your rods sound like they should work fine, like you said it's more important to have equal stiffness from side-to-side rather than worrying about matching the exact stiffness of the original rods. I think that clip should do the trick for you, it doesn't sound like it's pulling too bad. I think I mentioned earlier that my SH2 was pulling really hard to the right, full left trim barely helped. But the clip took care of the problem nicely

Good luck on the next outing!

Oct 06, 2009, 08:08 PM	#48
G-LO Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Va.Beach VA. Posts: 83	"Crash & burn, huhn Mave..."like Tres said it happens to us ALL. Yes..Welcome to the club! My parkhawk & slowhawk had broken several wings before i got use to flying it... and its handfull of weird flying situations i put it in. When you FIRST fly these things, it hard( for me) to know what to really expect....."should i fly it like an airplane? Should i fly it like Sean; Like on the videos he and the others had made!?...I don't know about anybody else, but my hart fells like it's about to do a flying back kick out my chest~.! Like Tres-one of the vets of the group and DEFINITLEY Sean "THE Man-" said, give yourself Plenty of space, and take it up...altitude is your "friend". And no sudden turns .At least until you truly know how your ornithopter flies.. If you can..not to hot rod in your bird.These New motors are Powerfullll! I have the GHs' big brother the lazy hawk. Man, youll be up before you know it...who knows, it may just fly better after that crash ,mine did!? It will fly just fine next time. Last edited by G-LO; Oct 06, 2009 at 08:18 PM.

Oct 06, 2009, 09:41 PM	#53
G-LO Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Va.Beach VA. Posts: 83	Snrek can the new rod n rod actually fix in the ferrels!? Its diameter is'nt too big or small? It works? Last edited by G-LO; Oct 06, 2009 at 09:58 PM.

Oct 06, 2009, 10:20 PM	#54
snrek Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Oregon City, Oregon Posts: 316	As far as setting the tail angle I just eye ball the tail to the wings when they look level to the fuse. (Or 90 degrees to the fuse). I don’t know if this is the right way but I look at where 45 would be and back off from there. The rod in rod looks like a good fix, the smaller rod has a little clearance inside the larger rod but using thin CA to bond them together might get it close to imitating a solid rod. I did have to hand ream the hole in the alum. block so the .157 rod slipped in. The CF rod I purchased is .157" O.D. X .098 I.D. and the smaller rod was marked .098" I will test fly my hawk again sometime this week. Maybe take another l u n c h break! EDIT: I removed some of my babble and I now have my bird repaired and ready to give it a go….. Last edited by snrek; Oct 07, 2009 at 03:26 PM.

Oct 07, 2009, 04:38 PM	#56
G-LO Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Va.Beach VA. Posts: 83	Snrek, just a little word of caution.I would do a little more testing then I would call or email Sean. I've been right where you were with my parkhawk. I say contact Sean because to see if he can send more ferrels.... i could be messing some facts with what you already did or spoke to someone about your bird. But I TRULY fell that if purchased another set of stock cf-rods and tried again, but this time..with non-modified ferrels and it "would" fly. You just had an inferior rod..that beautiful bird should have been flying. My lazyhawk has the same cf-rods and a little bit more wing area..believe me, I am ALWAYS anticipating a rod breakage when flying a few times until they prove their worthiness. Just dont cartwheel or cloth-line a tree or pole with the bird and you'll be fine.. Sean makes very good birds with extensive testing for the most part! Last edited by G-LO; Oct 07, 2009 at 04:43 PM.

Oct 06, 2009, 08:33 PM	#49
the_only_kris_20 Jets are my drug of choice! Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: wellsville, ohio Posts: 587	sorry to hear that snrek. i didnt get mine up today there was like 15 mph winds all day im beginning to think i wont get to really fly it til the spring. And right now im like a kid in a candy store with no money lol. I cant wait to get it up.

Oct 06, 2009, 08:53 PM	#50
G-LO Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Va.Beach VA. Posts: 83	Hey Snrek, I almost forgot to ask concerning a private place to fly. Do you ride by several schools in your area and check their yards? That what my brother and i do if the other fields are being hogged up by alot of people.. Just in case sean gets super busy with with putting out orders, this place i found that has cf rods: cstsales.com /1800-338-1278. Cf rods can be pricey, so shop around. RC Groups has plenty of helpful folks to help you out with this.

Oct 06, 2009, 09:15 PM	#51
snrek Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Oregon City, Oregon Posts: 316	Thanks for the encouragement and it is nice to belong, even if it is the broken spar club. I did the rod in rod thingy, I used thin CA the length of the inner rods and shoved them into the larger ones. I then tried comparing them against the one good solid CF rod I have and I really can’t tell much difference. Here is my testing method…..Grasp one rod and flex it, grasp the other and flex it. I thought the solid one had more resistance but after a couple of glasses of wine I am convinced the two piece one gives slightly more resistance, go figure. Anyway I am putting the two piece spar design in both wings. I also changed the C.G. back to center or maybe a hair further back and I reset the tail to around 20 degrees, I had 30 prior. I don’t know Sean, his wife or probably anyone else he knows so this is not an endorsement but I wanted to say he has been really great prior to, during and after my purchase. At one point today I had called him from the hobby store, he didn’t answer and I didn’t leave a message but he called me back and wanted details of my experience. Can’t say I get that with any of the other models I’ve flown. Wait….I did get a set of wheel pants once from E-Flite for free, the ones that were in the kit were destroyed, a quick pic of the un-opened bag and an email got me a replacement set. But seriously, I have had a great experience with Sean…..Now if this dam bird would just fly……. G-Lo, I do fly at other places, schools, churches, etc. I even fly over a sheep pasture next to my house. I just prefer to do my testing in a larger area. Thanks for the CF info also. -snrek aka -Rick

Oct 07, 2009, 03:31 PM	#55
snrek Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Oregon City, Oregon Posts: 316	It fly’s, well sort of……I made it out for a couple of test flights. The tail setting was too low, I had it set to around 20 degrees and no climb at all. I kept the throttle at ¾ and the flight path was veering slightly to the right without any input so I set it back down about 75 feet out. The next flight was short as well but I had added in as much Tx trim as I could to get a little more tail angle, powered it up and tossed it. Still slow to climb but I gave it full throttle and a little up on the stick. It started climbing but still veering to the right so I powered down and it pigeon glided to a nice landing. So even though they were short flights I didn’t break anything. When I get home I’ll change the tail back to around 30 degrees, add a paper clip to the left wing and do some more testing/trimming when I get the time.

Oct 07, 2009, 04:58 PM	#57
G-LO Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Va.Beach VA. Posts: 83	HOWEVER Snrek!...Ask Sean if he sent you the "right" con-rods. Sometimes the bird would'nt climb out because of too much dihedrel.(misspelled?) If.. that is the con-rods are "a hair" too long.

Oct 07, 2009, 05:14 PM	#58
snrek Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Oregon City, Oregon Posts: 316	G-Lo, I'll have a good flying hawk once I sort out a few minor details. It is probably a good flyer already (In the right hands). I have already set the tail angle back to where I had it because it did climb pretty well on the maiden flight and I decided to do a little Tx trimming before I go to the paper clip. I have spoken with Sean, he has been great and has given me good advice. I think the rods I made are going to will work pretty good. Sean said when it comes to these rods that they both need to be consistent in stiffness and length to one another. He said he has used the hollow type rods in the past. Part of the reason he went to the solid was to be able to hold the rod in the aluminum block with a set screw without cracking the rod, there are other reasons as well. One of his suggestions was to just put a small plug in the end of the hollow tube so the set screw has a place to tighten up. There are tradeoffs, he said this would lighten the bird up some but loose a little strength. I like his thinking it gives us a chance to be creative in getting our birds to be ‘ours’. If that makes any sense.

Oct 07, 2009, 05:46 PM	#59
G-LO Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Va.Beach VA. Posts: 83	Yes Snrek, that make sense. If im not mistaking, "BenC" a few year ago did something like that...correct me if i am wrong.*But,..he inserted a 4" brass rods in his hollow cf rods from the ferrels.It add a little weight, but nothing to cry about. If you check the "search" slowhawk/carbon fibers, you might see it. Or someone will chime in for the more direct approach. Im on my phone ....