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Old Sep 27, 2009, 10:52 PM
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Kinkade Sure-Glide device

A full description of my new glide lock device with photos can be seen now on my website. Click on the "What's New" button.

www.flappingflight.com
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Old Sep 28, 2009, 11:09 AM
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Can a person use something other then the rudder trim to activate the micro switch? Like the Gear toggle switch or the AUX/Flap toggle switch?
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Old Sep 28, 2009, 11:39 AM
Jets are my drug of choice!
wellsville, ohio
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Havent seen the glide lock device yet but i would have to say yes from my understnading it is just moving a microswith in and out of the way of a trigger arm on the main pinion so i would assume any channel would work. I actually like the three ch setup better by giving it full down elevator and throttle.
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Old Sep 28, 2009, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snrek
Can a person use something other then the rudder trim to activate the micro switch? Like the Gear toggle switch or the AUX/Flap toggle switch?
Good question Snrek. I have a DX6i and the trim tabs are'nt as sturdy as the non-digital radios. I broke my ale-trim had to go in the tx, take the peice out and monkey(gorilla) glue it. Useing its harding foam as a brace.If you saw the trim peice you would know what I mean. Kris I hope you'r right; it seems like we could... cuz i kindda joined the SK G-Hawk club..
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Old Sep 28, 2009, 01:38 PM
Jets are my drug of choice!
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Sean emailed me some assembly tips today and i ask him about the glide lock device in my email back to him so we should know soon. Its good to hear you are getting a glide hawk now too.
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Old Sep 28, 2009, 11:32 PM
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Got an email from Sean tonight. My Glide Hawk should be here this week. The weather is changing but I'm sure there will be a few fly days so look for for some pics coming soon!
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Old Sep 29, 2009, 10:40 AM
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G-Lo....welcome to the Glide Hawk club.

To answer the trim tab control question:

Yes, a 5th or 6th channel switch can be used to control the microswitch servo. I was just initially making it so it could work off a cheap 3 or 4 channel radio. But also, it doesn't need a whole lot of throw to move the microswitch pivot plate in and out of trip pawl range so the trim tab works well because it doesn't give as much throw as the full stick command and it also stays put and doesn't require being held in place like the rudder stick.

If you use a 5th or 6th channel Tx toggle switch it would be good if you could adjust your ATV settings down so the servo doesn't move full range.
Or else, go as short as possible on the servo arm holes to mechanically minimize the throw. All you need is enough microswitch pivot plate movement to move the switch so the trip pawl closes the switch and you hear the *click*of the switch closing ( "on" position), and enough the other way so the switch opens and stays open ( "off" position). As long as that need is met how you do it doesn't matter...trim tab, stick, toggle switch, etc.

I'm currently switching over to relatively inexpensive 6 channel 2.4 Ghz radio systems which have their settings programmed through a PC USB port. These radios have both switches and knobs in addition to the sticks and I'm hoping I can program mine so I have the upper right hand switch as my Sure-Glide control. I suppose the upper left hand switch could also work. Not sure which will feel the most natural. Either should work.

I'm also hoping since the radio is computerized that I can also set my ATV on the same switch so I can control the servo throw. If that works out, I will program my combo kit radios this way befor I ship them out. I am also going to start programming all of my ESC's before they ship out so they are set best for ornithoptering. I'm building a little test station with a radio,motor, and power supply so I can check and make sure ESC's are set for *no brake* and optimized for high Kv motors.

You do want the *no brake* setting on the ESC. For two reasons..first, for the Sure Glide to work, the wings actually need to go into "pigeon" mode, i.e., full up dihedral. If the wings didn't go into pigeon mode you should already be locked into a glide by chance and don't need to use the Sure-Glide. For either case to happen the geartrain needs to be able to freewheel so the wing loading pulls the wings up. And the second reason for no brake is.. the trip pin length is set to work with *no brake* motor enertia. Motor enertia has been a major issue in getting a glide lock to work (without a Hall sensor) and this is one reason why the Sure-Glide is designed to work from a no power setting.
When you throttle up from off, the motor gets cut off quickly ( in the ratchet pin lock-in zone) by the micro switch before it has a chance to build up momentum. The ratchet pin on the main gear only gets to move and only needs to move about 60 degrees around on the gear before the switch cuts the motor off. The motor generates some momentum in this brief time, but not like if would if it were revving along. This is why the Sure-Glide is unlikely to work reliably if you were to simply activate the micro-switch cutoff in powered flight. It will shut off the motor, but the motor momentum may carry the ratchet pin way past its lock in zone, much like a random throttle down lock in. So....the *no brake* ESC setting is important.

My ESC's say they come factory default set with the brake off but I have found this is not always the case so this is why I'm setting up my ESC programming station.
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Old Sep 29, 2009, 11:37 AM
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3 channel Sure-Glide system

For those with the new kits or those soon to recieve them, notice each kit has both a servo tray cutout ( likely wth a micro servo installed) up near the gearbox but they also have a small hole in the tail rocker opposite the tail rocker pushrod. This hole is for setting up 3 channel Sure-Glide operation by means of a pushrod ( actually more of a PULL-rod because the main force needed is in tension, not compression). I had tested this method in earlier tests and it worked but I had some problems then with servos over stressing that should now no longer be a problem. The problem was the overall load on the elevator servo because it has to do double duty...both rock the tail, and rock the microswitch up front at the same time, and it has to rock the microswitch even when the Sure-Glide isn't being activated. This shouldn't be a problem now, especially with a strong HS-65 elevator servo.

Originally, the problem was with the resistance created by the micro-switch wires. The wires would interfere in free movement of the micro switch pivot plate. I was surprised at just how pesky this problem was. They would feel okay to me but then I would hear the servo growl which I didn't like. I tried looping the wire and various set ups but it was still problematic. So then I went and bought some "wet noodle" silicone wire and this really helped and it is what I'm using now for the microswitch wire. But what really helped was when I routed the silicone wire through a ball link standoff which is in the same axis as the switch pivot plates rotational axis. That seems to work real well.

So, with the switch wire forces minimized, a 3 channel pushrod set up should work better now. I will be experimenting more with this as soon as my order of music wire comes in. There are several ways to set up a lightweight pushrod but probably the simplest way will be to use 1/32"-1/16" O.D. music wire ( K&S Metal Center at hobby shops is a main source) with Z-bends on each end but that requires some precise cutting and bending so you get the right length. Another way is to uses a carbon rod with threaded rod ends glued on with ball links, etc. Or, a miniature Sullivan "Golden Rod" could be used...the "cable in plastic sleeve" type typically uses for throttle linkages. I like the simple music wire idea. And there are various ways to support the rod so it doesn't buckle under compression. If you do this yourself you could mount Dubro 1/8" nylon wire landing gear mounts to the G-10 frame to run the rod through for support. That would probably work. The whole idea is to keep the weight down so it's less than a sub micro servo. If it weighs more, you may as well use the servo option.
That's what I suspect the pushrod set up will probably be best for short fuselage models like the Slow Hawk on down... Park Hawk, Shrike, etc. The pushrod could become a bit heavy on long birds like the Glide Hawk or Lazy Hawk. I'll eventually get to testing this set up again. If any of you guys get to it beofe me I'd be interested in some feedback.

If you are using the 4th channel switch servo and simply prefer the "down" elevator command coupled with throttle for Sure-Glide activation you can always hook your microswitch servo up to the elevator slot via a Y-connector. I have extra long Y-connectors in stock just for this purpose and they don't cost much so if anyone wants to try this let me know.
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Old Sep 29, 2009, 11:42 AM
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I suppose you could also go really "old school" and make a pushrod out of good ol' balsa wood with wire ends glued on and wrapped with thread.
Whatever works.
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Old Sep 29, 2009, 12:35 PM
Jets are my drug of choice!
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I put the micro switch servo on the gear ch on my radio and it works great from there. Cut the throws down so it just engages and disengages the switch. Your glide lock device proves that sometimes it is the simplest solutions that make things work no need to over complicate something simple.
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Old Sep 29, 2009, 12:58 PM
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Kris, you probably already did this but make sure your on and off switch parameters are set with the trip pawl at max down position against the switch wand ( raised on the other end by the gear pin).

One advantage of having the switch servo controlled by a trim tab ( or rotary knob for that matter) is you can fine tune the switch position in case you don't get the mechanical throws set up perfectly and have no ATV adjustments.
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Old Sep 29, 2009, 01:16 PM
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Hey Kris, have you found any time to take a few pictures or video yet?
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Old Sep 29, 2009, 02:47 PM
Jets are my drug of choice!
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not yet but soon
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Old Sep 29, 2009, 08:15 PM
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Thank you very much Sean for helping us with the glide lock procedures concerning the tx. I went on your site last night and read your exert and as i did my brother said-like you and Kris just explained-that it was posible.He has the DX7; he's always constantly tinkering with his settings on his new f-14. But as soon as i get some detailed pic i will start zeroing in what i need to do...Humm..Hey Sean, have you ever thought about setting up an instructional video on youtube!!??. Robert Korebelnik did a instructional with the french glide-lock. It helped me alot once i purchased it. It was pretty much "monkey see monkey do" instructional; it will save you alot of time & money from burning CDs....its just a thought.. since yall are so busy with putting out orders n'all. Plus it will take the guss work out of what and where things go.!? (You know how WE can get!..)
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Old Sep 29, 2009, 09:25 PM
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Hey Kris, nice pictures! I understand why you posted and then locked the thread. Anyway I look forward to some video. My Glide Hawk should be here this week. I can post some pics but video will be tough, most of my friends find it funnier to f-around when they get a video camera in their hands then record a maiden flight and when my wife tries to help out I end up doing something stupid, like dive bombing her! (Unintentionally by the way) or going in a direction that was different from what I had told her so pictures will have to do. It does look like mine is a little different from yours. I donít think one is any better than the other, just different.
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