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Old Oct 15, 2010, 11:50 AM
AMA 353531
rdeis's Avatar
United States, CO, Colorado Springs
Joined Aug 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davereap View Post
My main problem is a distinct lack of space to hang my planes, but with an ongoing habit of constant building.
Your local Scout Troop can help with that. AMA Clubs and Scout Troops have combined to introduce kids in the community to modeling with pretty good success, you can look at AMA web,s education program for pointers.

Giving away lots of models that I've built isn't an easy thing to do, but I mind losing the airplane to a new-kid-pilot a lot less when the alternative is losing the airplane to mold and age!
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Old Oct 15, 2010, 11:59 AM
Expat
Japan
Joined Apr 2010
3,124 Posts
Ahhh, sorry. The Zephyr is here:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1098938
Its a 54" delta wing, and has a cult following in the FPV community. Nice, but foam core alone is $200 with shipping. I was looking for something I could make myself. I have a hotwire cutter but couldn't find any templates for similar delta wings.
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Old Oct 15, 2010, 01:56 PM
Reap the wild wind
headlessagain's Avatar
Bristol,UK
Joined Feb 2007
4,283 Posts
Dave
have you seen Chellie's Funjet clone build on Wattflyer. Not a KF wing but very close to what you are aiming for
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40838
Scratch Built FunJet Maiden (6 min 0 sec)

Looks like Morgan Freeman on launch duties!
Head
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Old Oct 16, 2010, 10:58 AM
High Altitude Flyer
viking60's Avatar
Fairplay, South Park, CO
Joined Sep 2005
1,608 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNiceGuy View Post
Ahhh, sorry. The Zephyr is here:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1098938
Its a 54" delta wing, and has a cult following in the FPV community. Nice, but foam core alone is $200 with shipping. I was looking for something I could make myself. I have a hotwire cutter but couldn't find any templates for similar delta wings.
At $200 for just a set of foam wing cores , you can understand why scratch-building Foamies is so attractive to so many of us!

My 48" span Wing Warrior Raider is a deep-chord flying wing which is performing superbly on the slopes... You can buy just the wing cores for $30, +7.50 for Priority Mail shipping, or buy the complete kit for $65.95 for the slope version, and have a great flying slope ship. And the E-Raider is also an option at $79.95... with a lot of change left in your pocket!!!

http://wingwarrior.3dcartstores.com/...ores_p_20.html

So if you're looking for a set of EPP wing cores to experiment with (at a moderate price), I highly recommend the WingWarrior Raider cores. (You could experiment with adding some low profile stepped discontinuities to the EPP cores if you were inclined... or you could build a scratchbuilt KF'ed foamie to the same dimensions and compare their flight performance head-to-head... but I'll warn you right now that my Raider is awesome competition in slope combat- it's a tough benchmark to try to match or exceed, both in in it's ability to stay up in light lift, and in it's rapid recovery after combat contact in the air.

[Shameless Plug completed!]

VIKING
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Old Oct 16, 2010, 11:25 AM
Expat
Japan
Joined Apr 2010
3,124 Posts
Thanks Viking!
You know what I woud really love, would be a aerofoil profile hotwire template of a comparable delta. I made my own hotwire cutter recently, and secured a really nice source of foam. But have no templates to cut with.
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Old Oct 16, 2010, 12:21 PM
High Altitude Flyer
viking60's Avatar
Fairplay, South Park, CO
Joined Sep 2005
1,608 Posts
(Off Topic- Hotwire cutting); Plus New KOMET Project

The cutting templates are what take the time to prepare; I made my own 'gravity feed' type cutting system. I make one template for the bottom cut for each end of each core, then another pair of templates for the upper cut (allowing for the foam removed by the previous cut), then a third pair for doing the spar cut if I'm using a tubular spar; on some wings on slope combat ships, I've cut recesses for both top & bottom spars, so that's again possibly two sets of templates to make if you can't reuse the previous set.

For templates, phenolic plastic sheet will hold up to multiple core cutting without damaging the templates. With the 1/8" thick birch ply templates I make, I overlay the cutting edge with adhesive backed thin copper sheet to keep the wire from snagging or catching, or damaging the templates with the cutting wire's heat.

So it's a very time-consuming process making all of the templates, and I've only done a very few sets of them for other airfoils for kits which I had sold in the past.

Considering that entire process, it makes buying a nice clean CNC cut set of wing cores for only $30 look like a REALLY good deal... in fact, I just ordered another set of Raider cores for myself after making the previous posting! (I won't go through all the work of making another set of templates, & then clearing the decks to set up for doing the hot wire cutting myself, when they do such a superb job on them for only $30, and I only need one set at a time for my own project. And I already know that the airfoil which they are cutting for the Raider performs superbly.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Back to KF Building & Flying discussions!! I'll be completing my ~46" span Me163e Komet prototype before long. I did some of the basic layout on a full panel of FFF & started cutting the main wing layer back in August before jumping into the KF3P DANCER III design project.

The new larger Komet will benefit from some things I've proven with the Dancer III project & the three wings built for it. Using the KF3P aft overlay panels will also be designed into the wing structure and included in the flight testing process. The wing tip up-sweep will also be updated from the earlier (39-5/8" span) Komet, ending up with a bit more gradual curvature & a bit less angle toward the vertical at the upper outer edges.

More Soon - The FUN Continues!!!

VIKING
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Old Oct 17, 2010, 07:17 AM
Onward through the fog.
Cybernaught's Avatar
Bohol Philippines
Joined Aug 2008
1,566 Posts
Biplane maiden attempt not successful. Fuse broke in half and other damage. Discontinued effort. Tail heavy and too much drag. Complicated build. Not worth the effort.

Floaty Foamy "OT" flavored RET, in the works, based loosely on the Cumulus. It will undoubtedly morph into something totally different.

Will DL the vid & check out Chellie's "Fun-Jet"...
Dave's version sure flew nicely...


Steve.


Edit:20: 46
Finally got the vid!
Some of my long nosed deltas looked similar but never flew that well.
Very nice!



Edit 10/18/10 7:33am
Our possessions should be useful. When they cease to be useful they possess us.
The collection is now down to 4 planes. They are all capable and flown regularly.

My solution to the "Storage" problem.

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Last edited by Cybernaught; Oct 17, 2010 at 07:42 PM.
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Old Oct 18, 2010, 08:25 PM
Registered User
Dickeroo's Avatar
Joined Dec 2006
1,209 Posts
FPV KFm2 ReCon footage

Here's a video Paul Petty sent me from the RCFoamFighters in Missouri. The footage was shot out at Hermann Airport. I like the looks of this aircraft.

My Homemade UAV with KFm2 Airfoil (FF-Recon) (11 min 26 sec)


Dick
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Old Oct 19, 2010, 02:02 PM
just Some Useless Geek
Chicagoland
Joined Oct 2008
2,543 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by viking60 View Post
I built up a Microjet a few years back, but that aircraft design is one of those that is lacking in stability in the 16% thinner air up here. Launching was very touchy, & it couldn't be slowed down without loosing stability... that one stopped being fun...
I heard that one two and a half times, Bruce! Scott, a guy in my club, moved to Oregon and left me a pile of airplanes to sell off and junk to dispose of. One of his tossaways was an old Electrifly Mini Delta. I had seen that thing floating around his basement for a couple of years and could never figure out why he wasn't flying it.

I built it up with HXT500 servos, a hexTronik 1811-2000 10 gram motor, a 6A ESC, and an AR6110 Rx. With a TrueRC 350 mAh 2S the AUW was down around 125 grams; the original brushed configuration was supposed to fly at 190 (!) grams. It was easy to put together and trim up. So why wasn't Scott still flying it?

Well, every single flying session I had with that plane resulted in a smashed nose. Not always on the first flight, not even on the second, but by the third flight something would go wrong and I'd put the dumb thing into the dirt hard enough to smash the nose up. I scratch rebuilt the whole front end of that thing three separate times and crushed it again each time.

You know, I'm not a lousy flyboy. In fact, there are lots of guys in my club who come to me to maiden their planes before they go to the supposedly "expert" big-scale gas fliers. But that Mini Delta was so awful that nobody could have kept it flying.

So, the answer to why it was knocking around Scott's basement? Because the plane was a Pile Of Scrap (aka POS). You gotta know when to pick 'em. This isn't one of the "ones."
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Old Oct 19, 2010, 07:15 PM
High Altitude Flyer
viking60's Avatar
Fairplay, South Park, CO
Joined Sep 2005
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Yes, Geek, you're right on that...

Come to think of it, that Microjet might have been the LAST aircraft which I spent a lot of time painting & trimming up pretty before the test flying & 'optimizing'... (A waste of good materials & too much time on a P.O.S.!)

VIKING
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 05:25 AM
Onward through the fog.
Cybernaught's Avatar
Bohol Philippines
Joined Aug 2008
1,566 Posts
Plane Identification.

Can anyone tell me where I can get info on this plane?
(see pic)

I found it in a picture group. No information was given and I thought it would be a good KFm2 candidate. It was in the "What is the prettiest ol -timer? " thread on RCGroups. Page #1 post #14.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=497197

Also can anyone point me to info on thrust offset for that kind of pylon mounted motor setup?

I'll PM the poster but it was put up in March of 2006.

Thanks in advance.

BTW.
The latest "Old-Timer" effort is big and heavy. It may work with the BP21 on a 2200mah 2S with a 10x4 prop. Not sure??? Still high winds from the recent typhoon so no flying the past few days. I have a bit more to do before she's ready for gear and will post pics when the airframe is complete...
Still high winds from the recent typhoon so no flying the past few days.
Also thinking Taube.

Re: Microjet. Seems like, from info I found surfing, the plane is very fast, difficult to handle and and nose-ins cause a lot of dammage.

Steve.
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 11:04 AM
High Altitude Flyer
viking60's Avatar
Fairplay, South Park, CO
Joined Sep 2005
1,608 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cybernaught View Post
Can anyone tell me where I can get info on this plane?
(see pic)

I found it in a picture group. No information was given and I thought it would be a good KFm2 candidate. It was in the "What is the prettiest ol -timer? " thread on RCGroups. Page #1 post #14.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=497197

Also can anyone point me to info on thrust offset for that kind of pylon mounted motor setup?

I'll PM the poster but it was put up in March of 2006.

Thanks in advance.

BTW.
The latest "Old-Timer" effort is big and heavy. It may work with the BP21 on a 2200mah 2S with a 10x4 prop. Not sure??? Still high winds from the recent typhoon so no flying the past few days. I have a bit more to do before she's ready for gear and will post pics when the airframe is complete...
Still high winds from the recent typhoon so no flying the past few days.
Also thinking Taube.

Re: Microjet. Seems like, from info I found surfing, the plane is very fast, difficult to handle and and nose-ins cause a lot of damage.

Steve.
Steve,

Trying to control that old aircraft with the very small twin rudders seems like a very cumbersome design- elaborate linkage & room for control slop would be issues. It also seems like it's lacking in vertical stabilizer area, too, considering the large forward fuselage area that needs to be stabilized.

The Microjet is simply a very unstable design that transitions from flying to spinning out of control as it's slowed down with virtually no warning... and it's an itty bitty thing to try to keep your eyes on up in the sky. The vertical stabilzation was borderline inadequate , so it would react to motor / prop torque on launch and roll right into the ground if it wasn't thrown hard on launch with the left wing almost vertical... All of this was even more of a problem in the 16% thinner air up here where I live & fly.

Bottom line: it looks neat as a hangar queen, but it's a really poor aircraft design to actually fly, in my experience. The wing's airfoil shape is a poor one... if they'd used something like an RG14, they might have had a great handling high speed aircraft which could also perform well at much lower air speeds.

So I stripped out the electronics and chalked it up as 'buying an education'.

VIKING
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 06:32 PM
Onward through the fog.
Cybernaught's Avatar
Bohol Philippines
Joined Aug 2008
1,566 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by viking60 View Post
Steve,
Trying to control that old aircraft with the very small twin rudders seems like a very cumbersome design- elaborate linkage & room for control slop would be issues. It also seems like it's lacking in vertical stabilizer area, too, considering the large forward fuselage area that needs to be stabilized.
VIKING
The tail is "funky" but that could be made more conventional with appropriate sizes to address any control issues and to simplify things. I'm thinking of the pylon motor mount approach more than anything else. I have used pylons on 2m gliders in the past with some success. My concern would be pitch down on application of the throttle, I have found some info and will continue to look at it. I want a clean nose for a camera mount and on Flying-Wings and Deltas I get best (easiest) balance with a slotted prop but would like a higher mount for clearance and strength issues. Also I live on the Beach and Sea-Planes are an option I have tried before, The pylon motor mount has an appeal here too.

Don't know why the old timers are starting to look good to me. I like the "Look", specially of the '30s racing planes... You can still use modern methods and not have to sacrifice performance. I would never go back to Balsa though! Something like an old CL Nobler would be a fun and good looking RC job.. Now we're talking "Pattern" ships, arent we. I think the KF approach to slow stunt/pattern is a natural.

Well one more coffee then out to the garage.

Steve.
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 11:09 PM
High Altitude Flyer
viking60's Avatar
Fairplay, South Park, CO
Joined Sep 2005
1,608 Posts
Here's a preview of progress on the latest generation DANCER IV, which will primarily be flying the latest 46" span KF3P wing. The new fuselage is designed to fly at a lighter weight, using a lighter power system setup.

It also uses 4mm Depron for the tail group members to reduce both tail weight and drag. The 2S 1000 Flightmax battery will be carried in a battery compartment within the EPP fuselage to further minimize drag.

More construction details & photos are being posted to the DANCER discussion thread. I'll post further updates and a flight report as this project progresses.

VIKING
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Old Oct 21, 2010, 01:38 AM
it WILL fly! someday....
Richard_s's Avatar
Slovakia
Joined Aug 2008
448 Posts
Viking, that fuse looks nice and minimalistic. I used to make such fuses back in times when I had no folding prop. My planes were called PropBuster I, II etc . Now, I have nice folders and I make fat, tall, stubby ariplanes

I wonder if anyone tried to hotwire KF'ed airfoil from solid styrofoam. For someone with proper rig it's piece of cake. Sharp step could be easily achieved by gluing CF flat strip vertically, with one of those oozing PU glues (gorilla in US?) to fill melted-away step corner. Or wooden spar. Or strip of depron. This way we could utilize and COMPARE any good-performance RC airfoil.

My attempts to heatform depron with clothes iron failed because of poor temp regulation. I've HotWire bow construction in progress. Electric part done, just to buy wood & hardware for the frame. (my HW cutter: computer PSU => ATtiny13 microcontroller => nichrome wire. If anyone interested, PM me, I can post details in HW thread.)
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