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Old Oct 06, 2009, 07:16 AM
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Ashford. Kent. England
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I thought this might be a good idea...another thread for just pics and links to our designs...
There are so many builds and builders now that have used the KF section that I cant keep up with whats been done.
Most of us have several designs that have used the KF step so here is a thread dedicated to show casing your beauty
.
.. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1122108
please just post pics and links on the above thread linking to your keeper designs..

keep the discussions here where we are
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Old Oct 06, 2009, 07:29 AM
Onward through the fog.
Cybernaught's Avatar
Bohol Philippines
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davereap
I read up on Dougs many build some time ago when I got interested in the DLG idea, but at my age twirling round to chuck up a glider just knackered me out so I went back to getting them up with a motor... much more suitable
I'm with you on that one Dave,
Hand chucking, over and over, for 10 to 30 second flights isn't my idea of a fun senior RC activity. Specially in this heat and humidity!!! I like an electric motor to get it up and keep it up. Hmmmmmmm. That didn't sound right??? Anyway...

Got a bit more done on the KFm2 canard. Still a lot to do on the Fuselage though. See pics for peek at the current state of things. Do any of you know of any other KF winged canards out there? I can't recall ever seeing any... I can't believe this is the first one...

Steve.
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Old Oct 06, 2009, 08:07 AM
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looks good steve...

there must be other canards out there..but finding is a problem..hence my new thread above, to help find the good KF design builds..
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Old Oct 06, 2009, 08:49 AM
Rain or shine, wind or calm
Palatine
Joined Jul 2007
364 Posts
QUESTION. I made a KFm3 style flying wing (steps on top, flat bottom) and it is complete without power system. When I was glider-testing it. It seems to fly better upside down (steps facing down). Will this condition likely change when the plane is loaded with the power system?
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Old Oct 06, 2009, 09:29 AM
it WILL fly! someday....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by typhoonmaster
QUESTION. I made a KFm3 style flying wing (steps on top, flat bottom) and it is complete without power system. When I was glider-testing it. It seems to fly better upside down (steps facing down). Will this condition likely change when the plane is loaded with the power system?
Hi. IMO It depends on where the veritical CG location will be. If you put battery too much above the wing, it could roll upside down. Put it below the wing and you're okay . Test it, tape some weight onto the wing and glide, and under the wing. I've got kinda-wing type airplane with step on the top, and no problem. Check photo in my blog.

R.
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Old Oct 06, 2009, 09:52 AM
Rain or shine, wind or calm
Palatine
Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_s
Hi. IMO It depends on where the veritical CG location will be. If you put battery too much above the wing, it could roll upside down. Put it below the wing and you're okay . Test it, tape some weight onto the wing and glide, and under the wing. I've got kinda-wing type airplane with step on the top, and no problem. Check photo in my blog.

R.
I will, thanks!
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Old Oct 07, 2009, 04:11 AM
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If it flies better upside down, reposition the fins and try it with the steps on the bottom and the gear on the top.
Tonys original zagnutz wing was a single bottom step.
Dont worry though the wing wont roll over unwanted , all the gear on top will be fine ..V wings are very stable
The V creates an effective dihedral more sweep = more dihedral
which ever way up it is...
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Old Oct 07, 2009, 09:21 AM
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Heres my latest project... a cross between my KFm4 Superfly clone and the Goolie
Goolie thread here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=990577
You can purchase one from here http://www.micronradiocontrol.co.uk/


I am building this from 3mm depron to keep the weight as low as possible.
Power will be two of the BW motors.
I am going KFm4 again for the strength of build and its good flying ability.
To get a reasonably forward slot location and to help with the COG I have moved the step locations and this has resulted in a step that starts at 40% of the root but has to go to 33% at the tip...this is worked out including the elevons.
I would have prefered a 50% step but I guess this will be ok
My other alternative would have been a flat build in 6mm... but I much prefer having KF steps

So far Ive cut out the main layers..The plan is to mount the motors on top of the wing, I will have fins on top and bottom, I will have a deeper lower Fuz to provide some side area, but I will not have an upper fuz, then all the gear can go on top as usuall
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Old Oct 07, 2009, 04:55 PM
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Ive done the laminations to produce the wing and added fins and fuz...
The result is looking good, but there is a long way to go..pics 1-3

I should have added tape right across the wing before fixing fins and fuz

This build will continue on my superfly clone thread, rather than clogging up this discussion thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...=977954&page=3


I am always plugging the KFm4 build using loads of layers.. tape/depron/balsa/depron/balsa/depron/tape it might seem a lot but it is a fast build and makes a strong wing...pics 4-5 show an old build with some weight on it
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Old Oct 07, 2009, 05:43 PM
Onward through the fog.
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Interesting build, Dave.

Are you using counter rotating props for torque control?

Steve.
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Old Oct 07, 2009, 06:12 PM
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Hi steve.. I will try with two normal GWS8x4 props first and see how it goes, before I order some APC 7x5 push/pulls
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Old Oct 08, 2009, 04:49 AM
Onward through the fog.
Cybernaught's Avatar
Bohol Philippines
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davereap
Hi steve.. I will try with two normal GWS8x4 props first and see how it goes, before I order some APC 7x5 push/pulls
How about the differential throttle control? You might be able to do that with an external mixer on throttle and rudder. I'm wondering if the performance will be worth the added complexity??? Hmmmmm... How about finless?? Hee Hee.

You got me really curious.
Good Luck,
Steve
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Old Oct 08, 2009, 06:14 AM
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Attica, MI
Joined Dec 2006
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First, I want to say thank you to all that are contributing to this thread. Second, I have not been a strong proponent of the KF airfoil. Not that I disbelieve its value, I know it is valid, but I just have not had a need for it yet. Third, I am here to learn, so please pardon any probing questions. As it was stated near the start of this thread "In God we trust! All others bring data" LOL

A special thank you for Davereap for the video demo. That was very telling.

I am interested in how the KF compares to conventional non-stepped airfoils.

Ken
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Old Oct 08, 2009, 06:57 AM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
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"..I am interested in how the KF compares to conventional non-stepped airfoils..."

You're in a good position to find out easily with your various BB builds and variants. Build one KFm2 wing with a seat that will fit the UC perch and give it a test drive. Or send me an address and I'll mail you a KFm2 you can try out.

You'll lose the floaty thing and just a few MPH on the low end maybe. But you'll find the penetration and tracking is much better. I'm sure you fly the UC's in winds that others might not even consider now, with the KF's in the same wind you'll find your thumbs are much less busy. It is a like different kind of more enjoyable flying.

Jack
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Old Oct 08, 2009, 07:31 AM
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Steve... have a read on the Goolie thread http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=990577
Mixing is done at the radio using rudder / throtle mixing.
Some wild manouvers are possible and it will also knife edge on the differential..
Finless..I dont know, I am still woried about using two motors

Will it be worth it, I think so, it should certainly be interesting. With two motors and 26+oz thrust I expect it will go up fairly well.

DZ1. ...Ken
please view this thread http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=629435
It shows the whole of the testing that was carried out.
For yourself try replacing any conventional wing...use a KFm4 to replace a symetrical profile or a KFm2 for a more lifting section like clark Y..
You will be pleased..Also check out the building time, I used to make conventional built up balsa wings, that takes a while, doesnt it, A simple KFm wing can be finished whilst you are still pinning the balsa one together..A straight chord wing can be cut, glued and covered in a hour.. easy
For general flying the KFm sections are hard to better, however I dont believe they can replace everything, I havnt yet seen a high performance glider wing being replaced... or an ultra fast racer...note a KFm2 has exceeded 100mph and thats fast enough for me
Saying that however the KF wings will beat most everything for anti stall and range of speed in flight..
The best example is the Zagnutz vs the Zagi.. I have both, both will fly fast, but the zagi will stall at a not too slow speed whist the Zagnutz keeps flying, untill it stops, then it still doesnt stall but it parachutes down, perfectly controlable.. all down to the KF steps..
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