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Old Nov 14, 2012, 10:43 AM
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davereap's Avatar
Ashford. Kent. England
Joined Feb 2005
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working away..

"W" wings here... http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1504784 ....there is no problem with for example corsair type wings ..the 3 layer KFm4 is quite strong, just add a spar and joiner to reinforce as needed...
these W wings have no spars at all, but they are of a very wide chord
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 10:52 AM
CV-15 VB-16
giuseppi's Avatar
USA, TX, Friendswood
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Hi Dave,

Is that colored adhesive tape you use to stiffen/decorate your planes or an iron on covering?

g
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 11:06 AM
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davereap's Avatar
Ashford. Kent. England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy Steve View Post
Nice looking plane, Dave! Are you building it "full size" ?

I've been looking at this one for a while. Been concerned about the twin tail booms attaching to the wing area. Seems like they would be pretty weak -- easy to snap in a bad landing. I know you haven't flow it yet, but your thoughts?
Supposed to be full size...lol..... but my printer setup scaled it a touch...so it ended up as 31" span print instead of 32"...comments censored lol..
I built it anyhow, but I then modded mine from the start, adding back 20mm at the center, making the fuz a bit wider, leaving the rest alone..and gave it a KFm4 section at very roughly 50%
I built mine with out tabs.. used uhu por for the butt joins and cool melt fillets either side of all joints..
I also tape up the whole model

I was also a bit concerned about those booms, but there are a lot of these flying and no one else has had problems... even so, I replaced the 4mm CF round tube strengthener with a 4mm square tube which is a bit longer and less bendy, and placed it in a slightly different location, tucked tight under the wing , again the CF is fixed with uhu por to the depron, then filleted with a small bead of cool melt..I am also fully tape covering the booms for even more strength
They seem fine, I can pick the model up by a boom and it feels both stiff and strong ..

The tape covering is a colored sticky packing tape 2" wide x 50M long sold in staples over here..you can see the darker stripes that show where Ive overlapped the tape as I apply it
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 11:07 AM
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headlessagain's Avatar
Bristol,UK
Joined Feb 2007
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Dave uses self adhesive packing tape and I think it was he who put me onto this method of covering. I used to buy mine from Staples in the UK but my local store no longer stock much of a range so now I buy from Ebay. Here is a US source but rather a large order but you get the idea http://www.ebay.com/itm/36-Rolls-1-8...item2c63e3b1ad
The tape is thin and sticks really well to depron types of foam. It can be used on EPP but you need to prime the surface with spray adhesive.
Andy
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 11:40 AM
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Looking nice, Dave! Thanks for the comment on the boom. Can't wait for your test flight...
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 12:50 PM
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byrocat's Avatar
Aurora, Ontario, Canada
Joined Mar 2002
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I was working from memory and the Stoof came up as an example.

Went looking and all the 3-views showed a flat wing. Must be old age creeping up.... Considering my being a RCN navy-brat, not being able to remember polyhedral and giving examples of it incorrectly is almost unpardonable..... GD&R.

Meanwhile the Mitchell DID have polyhedral - up to the engine nacelles and then flat outside of them.

http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/aircraf...eviews-b25.jpg
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 01:22 PM
just Some Useless Geek
Chicagoland
Joined Oct 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackerbes View Post
Dihedral joints are the weak points in any foam wing. So when we can we prefer to not have them.
Who's "we," paleface? I've built plenty of planes where the dihedral joint became the stiffener for the longitudinal axis of the wing. On most of my trapezoidal wing plans the centerline joint is the backbone of the plane, adding a lot more stiffness than the fuselage!

Don't be afraid of wing joints. Done properly they can add a lot of rigidity to an otherwise floppy design/implementation.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 02:20 PM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Useless Geek View Post
Who's "we," paleface? I've built plenty of planes where the dihedral joint became the stiffener for the longitudinal axis of the wing. On most of my trapezoidal wing plans the centerline joint is the backbone of the plane, adding a lot more stiffness than the fuselage!

Don't be afraid of wing joints. Done properly they can add a lot of rigidity to an otherwise floppy design/implementation.
I was just speaking in generalities and from the viewpoint of faster stronger builds I guess.

I wasn't trying to speak for everyone either although it does read that way...

I certainly would never add a dihedral joint just for the heck of it. I don't do scale or look alikes either.

Jack
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 02:39 PM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byrocat View Post
I was working from memory and the Stoof came up as an example.

Went looking and all the 3-views showed a flat wing. Must be old age creeping up.... Considering my being a RCN navy-brat, not being able to remember polyhedral and giving examples of it incorrectly is almost unpardonable..... GD&R.

Meanwhile the Mitchell DID have polyhedral - up to the engine nacelles and then flat outside of them.

http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/aircraf...eviews-b25.jpg
Nothing here is unpardonable. And old age is not a valid excuse for a poor memory. You can tell that by the reaction to what I said...

I was stationed at and lived in Imperial Beach, CA for two years, our house was right under the south to north approach to NAS North Island so we got to see a lot of Stoof and non-Stoof S-2 flyovers.

That was in 1967, and the last of the VP squadron P5M amphibs was still flying out of North Island at the time. Those used to take off from and land in the lower part of San Diego Bay near where I was stationed. I remember seeing a P5M beach itself along the Coronado Strand so as to avoid sinking (hull damage on landing maybe?).

Jack
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 02:42 PM
just Some Useless Geek
Chicagoland
Joined Oct 2008
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Just elbowing yer ribs, there, Jack. I only add joints where they are necessary. But I have tried this approach to stiffening a wing that had a too-long chord, where the wing tended to twist under load. Works a treat.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 02:50 PM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
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I knew that. But if you have to act offended I have to respond defensively, right? To play out the myth?

Watch the moderator tell us to quit bad mounting each other now...

Jack
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 03:07 PM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giuseppi View Post
Hi Dave,

Is that colored adhesive tape you use to stiffen/decorate your planes or an iron on covering?

g
Here is a good source for getting started with it, an assortment of six or eight colors:

http://www.fast-pack.com/colored_tape.html

After that you can buy onesies or twosies from lazertoyz.com as you use those up.

http://www.lazertoyz.com/Tape_c_61.html

The stuff sticks like gangbusters to the skin on FFF, I use 3M 77 or Duro #8108810 aerosol adhesive on bare foam. Just spay a light coat from arm's length away and the Acetone will not damage the foam.

Wonderful stuff for strength and visibility in flight.

For the clear tape I use the Duck brand Standard (not heavy Duty) tape from Wal-Mart. Great for invisible repairs, and for making hinges and stuff too.

Jack
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 10:08 PM
just Some Useless Geek
Chicagoland
Joined Oct 2008
2,535 Posts
You suck! I hate you! I hate you! And you never knock!
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 10:35 PM
CV-15 VB-16
giuseppi's Avatar
USA, TX, Friendswood
Joined Jul 2007
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Thanks for all the information regarding the tape, Jack.

g
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Old Nov 15, 2012, 02:39 AM
Reap the wild wind
headlessagain's Avatar
Bristol,UK
Joined Feb 2007
3,920 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Useless Geek View Post
You suck! I hate you! I hate you! And you never knock!
Love it but you ought to read some of the threads where ex mates just seem to use what was a perfectly civil thread to slag each other off. This recently happened on the WOT NEXT thread. I, of course, remained above such petty arguments as I was busy KFm-ing the build for a FB and a new flyer.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=482
Andy
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