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Old Oct 27, 2011, 07:30 PM
Onward through the fog.
Cybernaught's Avatar
Bohol Philippines
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
Hmmm.. It looked nice in the air but it does look to me like it might be a lack of rudder response that's the real problem. I'd have expected a plane with good rudder response to turn right when you applied full right rudder, but the best you got on the video was straight ahead flight. Also even when you reduced throttle the plane kept turning left which tells me that it's not all a thrust line thing.

Please don't take this as being critical, I'm just trying to help you get it sorted.

Steve
I get your point Steve and I appreciate all suggestions and comments. Thank you.

I took the plane out this morning and my batteries failed. They are 4 years old and are puffed and I'm trying to get them to take a charge but so far no luck. I'm rigging a harness to couple two of my 500mah 3s batts in parallel so I will try that.

Two very short flights have shown the plane to fly straight and level now with the offset I added. Turn response is just OK not great but adequate for a floater. Glide is very nice with CG set where it is at 3". I'll upload a very short vid of the two flights and post it here when it's on Youtube.

Good flying to all of you and thanks again for the encouragement.
Steve.


Edit:
I'm modifying the plane to take a 2200 2S with a 10 x 4.3 EP prop on the BP21. Battery is charging as we speak. The 1300 3s batts don't want to take a charge. This should have a lot of torque but may be more efficient. I just hope the receiver and ESC work OK on 2s.

Second landing is a stall because I gave up elevator and full throttle and the batt was dead...


PC Ses 2.wmv (0 min 58 sec)
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Old Oct 28, 2011, 08:22 AM
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
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Steve, it looks like it wants to fly well .... with a good battery ... We read somewhere where lipos start to degrade from day one , some Chemical thingie’ , so old batteries won’t work as well as newer ones ... even if not much used ..
And that second landing wasn’t much of a stall eh ... very gentle looking from here... Must be the KF ...

V60, Beauty landscape Dude !!! Snow We see you’re prepared for the season ...
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Old Oct 28, 2011, 10:26 AM
flyin' fool
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Vancouver Island, Canada
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As GPW sez, lipos are on their way out as soon as they leave the factory. From a 3V per cell discharge, charge them up again with your trusty wattmeter hooked up. If you can't get 80% of the rated capacity back in.................chuck them into the round file. Keeping them in storage mode when not in use and not working them over 80% really helps add to the life span.

Got snow in the mountains here two day age.
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Old Oct 28, 2011, 02:40 PM
Grumpy old git.. Who me?
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Steve,

The Problem Child certainly wants to fly, but it still seems to me that it doesn't much want to fly in any other direction than left-hand circles?

I'm thinking that the main problem (if indeed there is one) is lack of rudder authority. What I'm seeing is a short coupled v tail where the span of the tails is low and the angle of the V is quite flat. This all adds up to not much yaw authority when you move the rudders and possibly a slight shortage of directional stability. Add to this a dihedral angle that's modest for a rudder only model and you have a recipe for very poor turning. Also the v tail rudders will have a slight 'aileron like' effect that's opposite to the desired bank angle, which maybe further compounds the potential problem.

Hopefully once you get your new batteries in you will prove me wrong on all counts..... But if not then I think the biggest improvement would be found by adding a more conventional and quite large vertical tail/rudder, or if you want to stick with the v tail making the span of the v tail larger and maybe the angle of the V more upright and the tail moment possibly a bit longer.

Again, not intending to be negative, just some ideas to help get it sorted, if there is a problem.

Steve
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Old Oct 28, 2011, 03:36 PM
just Some Useless Geek
Chicagoland
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We're all on tighter budgets these daze, Steve, but you gotta have batteries. A year or so ago I went through all my small 500-1000 mAH packs and pulled out all the ones that wouldn't keep up the current. They went to a FB who flies a lot of slow stuff, so his demand isn't nearly as critical as mine with the prop hanging sport planes, park jets, etc.

After that I bought a pile of Turnigy 20C blue packs. What a difference. But even those got a little tired after several dozen cycles each. Not too bad, but certainly not as peppy as when new.

Once the nano-techs came out I started using them, and now I won't use anything else. Lighter, cheaper, higher performance. What's not to like?
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Old Oct 28, 2011, 04:36 PM
flyin' fool
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The 'V' does look a bit flat, should be 110 degrees. Got slopers with them and they work very well.

I've gone all nano too, love em. A huge difference for sure, plus you can charge them up fast.
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Old Oct 28, 2011, 05:38 PM
Onward through the fog.
Cybernaught's Avatar
Bohol Philippines
Joined Aug 2008
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Problem Child battery situation.

I have several options now.

The single 2200 2s will use a 10 x 4.3 prop and the 3s combinations will use an 8x6, 8x4 or 7x6.

It's what I have at the moment.

Someone tell me about these "Nano Batteries". Like Prince Charles, "I'm all ears!" Is there a URL with info? Should I just google "Nano Batteries"?

If the PC needs more dihedral I will chop the tips and make it "Polly" I will wait until I get a chance to see what she will do with a decent battery. I want to try a similar plane with the short-coupled Vee-Tail and low AR "Bird of Tyme" type wing tips. Foamy's let you cut lots of nice curves into these ships. I have been "Going Straight" for too long.


Steve.
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Old Oct 28, 2011, 05:48 PM
Grumpy old git.. Who me?
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Turnigy Nano-tech from Hobbyking: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...no_2Dtech.html

I've got a few of them and they seem pretty good. I've slightly puffed a couple but that's probably my fault for storing them fully charged between flying sessions, even a little bit puffed they still perform well.
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Old Oct 29, 2011, 12:46 AM
flyin' fool
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Vancouver Island, Canada
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Steve:

I would recommend you get the proper polarized plugs that match the nano-tech lipos for your ESCs.

I tried the new generation G3 lipos over a year ago with two small 250mAh packs and was so impressed I sold all the lipos I had in different sizes and went totally nano-tech from HK. Not only do they put out the power, no more waiting around for an hour to charge. After about a dozen cycles I go from the hour charge rate to a 20 minute one (can do it in 10 minutes). So, with a field charger you can fly all day without waiting using just two batteries, although three is better.................one in the plane, one ready to go and one on the charger, just keep rotating. I can fly all night with little waiting time on two batteries at indoor.

Lipos are truly amazing from what they were just a few short years ago. Makes one wonder what's just around the corner.

Frank
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Old Oct 29, 2011, 02:20 AM
Onward through the fog.
Cybernaught's Avatar
Bohol Philippines
Joined Aug 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
Turnigy Nano-tech from Hobbyking: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...no_2Dtech.html

I've got a few of them and they seem pretty good. I've slightly puffed a couple but that's probably my fault for storing them fully charged between flying sessions, even a little bit puffed they still perform well.
Thanks for the info. I'm checking into ordering about 4 from HK. Their page has changed and it looks like they are adding customs fees. I need to check with Customer Service and find out what's going on before I order anything.

Current batteries are not working. have 4 of adequate size for the Problem Child and they are not giveing more than 60 seconds of air time. I will dump them. Coupling two 500mah batts is not working properly so I'm stuck to making smaller planes until I can get some on order.

Mornings effort today was OK. the thrust has solved the turning problem but this video only shows clips tied together as I was looking for a battery combination that would give me some air time.

PC Ses 3 10 29 11.wmv (1 min 21 sec)


I have another one on the board that will be able to use the BW motor and smaller battery. Currently it's hot enough to melt solder without an Iron so I'm taking it easy and drinking a lot of water. Tide too low for a swim...
Pictures when I have something worth showing.

Steve.
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Old Oct 29, 2011, 02:21 AM
Reap the wild wind
headlessagain's Avatar
Bristol,UK
Joined Feb 2007
4,230 Posts
Hi Steve
if you want further proof re the power of the nano-tech's have a look at this video
LiPo battery integra engine cranking test, Turnigy Nano-tech 45-90C.avi (3 min 39 sec)

And this one for anybody who has just got away with a lower than expected pass. This is a low pass but no nano-tech's needed for these guys
CRAZY CLOSE SHAVE PASS DURING WINGSUIT JUMP IN NORWAY (0 min 32 sec)

and this one at 1:40
Jeb Corliss " Grinding The Crack" (3 min 30 sec)

"Balls as big as church bells" is one comment that springs to mind
Sorry if off topic but I'm sure you will enjoy the videos
Andy
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Old Oct 29, 2011, 03:34 AM
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good videos..
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Old Oct 29, 2011, 03:51 AM
Onward through the fog.
Cybernaught's Avatar
Bohol Philippines
Joined Aug 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldguy View Post
The 'V' does look a bit flat, should be 110 degrees. Got slopers with them and they work very well.

I've gone all nano too, love em. A huge difference for sure, plus you can charge them up fast.
Next bird has double the dihedral of the Problem-Child. I hope it will be acrobatic enough to do rudder rolls.

Picture of my Vee-Tail building jig. It may be the shape of the tail makes it took less than 110 degrees. Seems to perform OK for the most part.


Re: The HK order.
I hope they don't add any customs fee. I'll try their chat mode next week.

Steve.
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Old Oct 29, 2011, 04:19 AM
Grumpy old git.. Who me?
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Aberdeen
Joined Mar 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cybernaught View Post
Mornings effort today was OK. the thrust has solved the turning problem .....
Steve,

certainly does look like she's turning just fine, I'm pleased i was wrong about the rudder control

Steve
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Old Oct 29, 2011, 06:21 AM
Onward through the fog.
Cybernaught's Avatar
Bohol Philippines
Joined Aug 2008
1,566 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
Steve,

certainly does look like she's turning just fine, I'm pleased i was wrong about the rudder control

Steve
Sometimes when you make things a different shape it changes the perspective.

Just ordered a couple of them Nano-Tech Batteries from HK with another cheap charger and two BW motors. The Credit-Card vendor they're using now is charging Custom's Fees. At least into the Philippines. I marked the minimum amount. Still easier than trying to find anything here. Have any of you had this happen???

I'll finish and maybe fly the new plane tomorrow. Problem-Child will have to wait for her new batteries to get here. Got to go to Tagbilaran to the post office. I went last week and we never made it. Battery quit and it was all we could do to get home. I've just been having hell with batteries lately. At least the ones for the planes didn't cost what the one for the car did.

Everyone have a good weekend and get some stick time in!
That's an order...


Steve.


Edit:
OK... I decided to give you a preview. I'll do just about anything to avoid sanding the bottom of that boat!



Edit 2:
Here's this mornings video of the Wing-It in my back yard.

WI 103011 a_0001.wmv (2 min 9 sec)


She's fine but the Minimalist is a handful. Gear from the Minimalist will go onto the Crap-Shooter. I should finish it today if I dont' keep going outside to put a model up.
10am Sunday morning and time for breakfast.
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