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Old Oct 14, 2009, 07:44 AM
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Good luck with that one steve..

Ive got some push/pull props and new motors on their way for the twin.. so thats on hold for a couple of days

Ive been searching for KF builds and links for the links thread but I am now not finding much more to put on..so keep your eyes open everybody and PM me anything you find thats not on here... http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1122108 which ive got up to 60 posts on..its worth a look through ...to see what ive missed
Please PM me if you know of any other build logs

Doing the searches has led me down a few threads relating to DLG builds, and I have read more comments which echoed my findings with KF steps on DLG flying wings.
What I found is that they lack penetration and fly/sink slowly but going nowhere..
Making them heavier actualy aids the glide
Ive been thinking on trying much thinner KF wings with slight undercamber. Profiling the LE and tapering the TE. having the gear enclosed using pod and boom with rudder and elevator only
The best glider wings ive used were from an amigo and these were thin with the profile I described

any thoughts.. or has anyone tried this

edit..for your info I found this silicone piping that when cut down makes for excellent bands for your prop savers
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Old Oct 14, 2009, 03:54 PM
Onward through the fog.
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Bohol Philippines
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davereap
Good luck with that one steve..

I have read more comments which echoed my findings with KF steps on DLG flying wings.
What I found is that they lack penetration and fly/sink slowly but going nowhere..
Making them heavier actualy aids the glide
Ive been thinking on trying much thinner KF wings with slight undercamber. Profiling the LE and tapering the TE. having the gear enclosed using pod and boom with rudder and elevator only
The best glider wings ive used were from an amigo and these were thin with the profile I described

any thoughts.. or has anyone tried this
Dave,
I hope to try out the new Bird today but depends on the weather. It's not quite daylight yet and I'm up early.

RE: KF gliders. Angel wanted the front wing from the canard that I'm not going to use. I decided to make her a KFm2 hand-chuck glider. Funny that you mention the KF glider wings. It will be small and pretty light. If of any interest I'll let you know how it goes.

Steve.




Edit: 10/16/09 13:08
Vesper Maiden (3 min 5 sec)

It flies but not easy to handle and not very predictable. I think it needs sweep or a tail or an extended nose with a canard. I'll wait till there is no wind and try again. Also I have some adjustments in the control throw ratios to try. I like the look
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Old Oct 15, 2009, 04:04 AM
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Thats a goodn steve... from its powered down flight the glide or low power flight is very flat so the COG is right back as far as it can be... take the COG forward maybe up to 1/2" so its just a bit nose heavy, that will make the elevators less sensitive and the plane will be easier in the wind.. with not much sweep the cog becomes more critical...but its going well, and was almost spot on for a maiden flight

nice one .... dave

if you decide to mod it..what about a cat layout..twin booms
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Old Oct 15, 2009, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davereap
Thats a goodn steve... from its powered down flight the glide or low power flight is very flat so the COG is right back as far as it can be... take the COG forward maybe up to 1/2" so its just a bit nose heavy, that will make the elevators less sensitive and the plane will be easier in the wind.. with not much sweep the cog becomes more critical...but its going well, and was almost spot on for a maiden flight

nice one .... dave

if you decide to mod it..what about a cat layout..twin booms
Dave,
I'm thinking Canard with elevon and forward elevator mix. I figured out the Mix settings on 2.4G HK radio with help from John on the 2.4GHz system thread and there are some interesting combinations that could be done.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...0#post13351095

I've adjusted the setting for the dual rate so I have 100% aileron control and 50% elevator for second DR function. I will take your advice and move the CG forward a bit too. One step at a time to see what does what. I think I'll do a second build when I add the canard or maybe twin booms but I tried twin booms with an A tail a while back and didn't like it much. The twin booms seem to add a lot of weight and the A tail doesn't seem as stable as a more conventional design. Worth thinking about though. The next one will probably be a KFm4 instead of the KFm2

Going to Tagbilaran tomorrow to get some FG packaging tape. I ran out today. We have more tropical depressions stirring things up to the east of us and so not sure what the WX will do. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for still mornings...

Steve.
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Old Oct 15, 2009, 10:20 AM
just Some Useless Geek
Chicagoland
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As I said on your YT video comment, the CG needs to go forward just a hair. You don't need to chop up the fuselage or add canards. If it continues to be a handful you might think about a $12 rate gyro on the elevator, but then you'd have to use onboard mixing; the radio can't mix if there's a gyro involved.

Speaking of radios -- you do have the rates turned down for T/O and landing, right?
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Old Oct 15, 2009, 11:43 AM
Lee
PERFECT LANDING !!!
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Steve.

Some of the reason we sweep the wings is to get rid of that flying plank roll and loop. What you are experiencing is generally normal for the design. The way to fix it would be to have a deep chord in the center of the wing almost going to a delta shape.

Been there done that and I did it more than once.

Lee
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Old Oct 15, 2009, 06:07 PM
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Bohol Philippines
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Hey Guys,

The wing has a tiny bit of sweep, maybe 10 or 12 deg. This plane is accidental in the fact that it is the main wing from a canard which never happened. It was never supposed to be a flying wing. The first thought was for an AP application. It was another "Morph" and just happened. Typical for my builds. No plans and go with the flow. I would like to design/build something really original and do a thread on it but I think everything has pretty much been done already. We don't have that many new ideas. Most "new" things are a recombination of what has already been done.

AUG,
The gyro is an option but I've never used one before so I'll do a bit of research on them. Thanks for the suggestion. I havn't changed the rates in flight takeoff and landing. In fact is hasn't been landed yet.

Lee,
I haven't flown it since the maiden, yesterday, but it seems there is a point close to stall where it developes a mind of it's own. It'll do a quick roll or kind of flip over on it's back. I was thinking more fin area might help but anyway, I have yet to fly with the adjustments to the DR settings and I want' to move the battery forward and see if that tames it down a bit too, like Dave suggested. I plan to experiment with it the way it is for now and build other versions probably with more sweep. I really like the look of this thing with the snout out front. I don't want to turn it into just another park-jet pusher or slotted Delta.

The main thing is I'm a bit pumped up about it and I'm having fun. This thing puts me in "12-year-old" mode!

Steve.



Edit: Oct 17, 2009 7:51am
Another typhoon heading for Luzon.
Considering what Lee said about the plank vs delta... I'm thinking Stryker F27
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Old Oct 18, 2009, 08:48 AM
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Ashford. Kent. England
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steve
I really like the looks of that one so I hope you get it sorted.. you realise if you do get it going good, you will have to show how its built, with plans etc... for my links thread..

the link thread is up to 76 posts but is slowing down now as it gets harder to find complete builds...

whist searching ive found some good pics, but without any further info.. such a shame..
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Old Oct 18, 2009, 06:52 PM
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Bohol Philippines
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Vesper
(Evening Star)
She just told me her name!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by davereap
steve
I really like the looks of that one so I hope you get it sorted.. you realize if you do get it going good, you will have to show how its built, with plans etc... for my links thread..

the link thread is up to 76 posts but is slowing down now as it gets harder to find complete builds...

whist searching ive found some good pics, but without any further info.. such a shame..
I got the idea Dave,

If it turns out I'll do a build thread with pix and vids.

I just modded the radio on-board system to incorporate the internal mixing from the transmitter so they all work on the same settings now. That is on all 5 planes. three wings, the Nifty and the new, unnamed, bird. (Vesper)

We have calm at the moment and I'm off to the field to give Tata a chance to fly and to test the new one. I reduced throws on DR to 50% and added nose weight too. I have experimented with a canopy made from a pop bottle using a male mold and hair dryer. It's OK but I need practice at the technique. See pictures. New plane is 450g or abut 16 oz and has a wing loading of 4.4oz/sq ft. (427sq in.)

I'm off.

Steve.



Edit: 10/19/09 10:52am

Got 3 flights in and decided to remove the nose weight. Charlie, who works for our Mechanic, Rey, came and got the van so I'm house-bound at the moment but I have a short composite video I just uploaded to Youtube. Here it is.

Vesper 10 19 09am (1 min 18 sec)


It seems to fly pretty well and today there was just the lightest breeze and results were much better than the last time.
Whatcha think?
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Old Oct 19, 2009, 08:15 AM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
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Vesper, that a good choice, Steve,

I really liked the Vesper, the Lambretter was another good scooter.

Jack
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Old Oct 19, 2009, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackerbes
Vesper, that a good choice, Steve,

I really liked the Vesper, the Lambretter was another good scooter.

Jack
For low power scooter type bikes I always liked the Cub. Small wheels are not good on bumpy roads.

The van is in the shop again to have the last part installed on the revamp of the rack and pinion assembly. So if I go to the field it will be on the bike. We have two of them. I have a 150cc Veloci of local manufacture and Edna has a 110 Honda Clone from China. Getting a plane and gear to the field is a juggling act.

Steve.
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Old Oct 19, 2009, 08:02 PM
Jack
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Joined May 2008
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You guys are really living the life of Riley over there, aren't you?

I had a Honda 90 (a real one) when I was in Subic in the 70's. I loved that little guy, it had a rusted out baffle in the muffler and had a nice sound to it.

I used to pretend I was Mike Hailwood at the Isle of Mann as I came down the hill from Binictican Housing area to the main base area at Subic. As soon as the road leveled out I was just another squid on the way to work and having another Navy Day.

My current ride is a '97 Dyna FXD, I love my geezerglide...

Jack
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Old Oct 20, 2009, 02:56 AM
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Bohol Philippines
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Had a good day flying today.

Nice bike, Jack.

I had a Honda CBR 1000F "87 Hurricane. The original "Super-bike" when I was in California. 0 to 60 in 2.6 seconds with a top speed just under 170mph. I loved it. That would be major overkill here as you probably remember. Blast round a corner at speed and straight up the kazoo of a caribou!

Well things went pretty well for a change. We still have a storm nearby but the wind was light to non existent today so we got in two trips to the flying field.

Trip one in the morning was to solo Tata with the Buzzard and after an inspired demonstration by the flight instructor, me, and some last minute directions he was off and away with no problems. In fact his landings are better than mine.

Trip two was to take up the Vesper and when we got to the field the wind piped up a bit but I wanted to test the mods and all went well. I kept it to two flights as the clouds were rolling in and threatening rain and the wind was increasing. This new bird seems like she's going to do well. She handled the wind just fine and with a couple of pesos in the nose battery compartment for a hint of nose heaviness she flew fine. I have only had it up about 3 short sessions including the maiden but the more I fly it the more I like it and for a plane that is almost a plank it seems quite stable.

I will do a build guide thread in case anyone is interested and, Dave, I'll post the URL on your Links thread when I have something with a bit of substance prepared.

The rain clouds are getting heavier and there is thunder in the distance so we may have a rainy night in Pangangan.

Hope you are all doing well and having as much fun as I am.

Steve.
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Old Oct 20, 2009, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by typhoonmaster
QUESTION. I made a KFm3 style flying wing (steps on top, flat bottom) and it is complete without power system. When I was glider-testing it. It seems to fly better upside down (steps facing down). Will this condition likely change when the plane is loaded with the power system?
back at post 142 this was raised

did you ever discover an answer?

its got me thinking.... ouch

has anybody done testing on what works best for the glide?

we know that a top step improves the glide of a flat wing, weve seen the video, but how does a bottom step compare vs top step.. or like yourself an inverted KFm3 that you find glides better than the KFm3 the correct way up...and the correct way up is suposed to be an improvement over a KFm2

I cant recall anyone doing comparisons...what if they will work even better up the other way....remember the Revert, a top step slope plank that was named the revert cause it flew so very well inverted

has anyone done any proper comparisons...

heres another quote I found from SimonP about a slope wing,, http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1088538
I did some testing just with a single step on the second platform I posted. it was at 50% chord and about 9% thickness. When I tossed it with the KF on the top it took very little weight to even out the cg but it was VERY unpredictable. I set it up with no control so I could just see how it flies. With the KF on the top it would nosedive at the slightest drop in windspeed or climb and stall with little gusts. when i flipped it over to make it the KF1 on the bottom It took a TON more weight to even out the CG, flew straighter, the weight made the wind unnoticeable, and surprisingly, flew only a tiny bit faster than the KF2. I deffinately need to change my drawings cause the KF1 rocks
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Old Oct 20, 2009, 07:36 AM
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
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We prefer the KF1 to all , it just seems top make the plane fly so much better overall... The glide is fine and the top of the wing is uninterrupted and looks better...
FYI, while GeneBond was flying my A-12 , he commented that the CG could use more adjusting for better inverted flight ... crumbs for thought... may be a CG issue and not a KF difference...
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