HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
This thread is privately moderated by jackerbes, who may elect to delete unwanted replies.
Old Oct 10, 2009, 06:45 AM
Registered User
davereap's Avatar
Ashford. Kent. England
Joined Feb 2005
7,023 Posts
I have still got to fit the push rods and REC, then I need to work out the programming on the motors to give the rudder differential and get the settings adjusted to give me equal thrust on both motors as I work the throttle.. So a bit of work to do..

I just found the specs on the goolie and added them to my previous post..
What is encouraging is that their wing loading comes out almost the same as mine, at 4.4 oz sq ft, so I hope my slow speed flight is also as good..
My version is heavier by 3oz so I presume theirs should accelerate better, mine might be better in more wind...but with a slightly different power/prop system, its a wait and see...but with a 2:1 power weight ratio I think it will be good... my only worry at the moment is I am not using counter rotating props..

I am also searching for KF builds and slowly adding them to the pics and links thread.
Hopefully people will add their own builds, but if not I will be posting the links...
So if you see your design here ... http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1122108 ..and would like to add or correct any info to the post, please PM me..
davereap is offline Find More Posts by davereap
Last edited by davereap; Oct 10, 2009 at 06:57 AM.
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Oct 10, 2009, 08:53 AM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
17,221 Posts
Zagnutz - 48" KFm4 Build

For many of us Tony65x55's KFm1 Zagnutz was our introduction to slow and easy to fly flying wings. A truly addictive design with it's lovely parachute maneuver and simple build.

I built it in KFm4 with FFF giving up a little of the slow flying and getting much better penetration and tracking. This has been a very long lived and versatile flyer, at 18-20 oz. with a 3S and 4S A123 batteries, it is the best windy day flying wing I have.

The build details are here:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=3040

Jack
jackerbes is offline Find More Posts by jackerbes
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 10, 2009, 09:45 AM
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
gpw's Avatar
United States, LA, New Orleans
Joined Jul 2002
24,202 Posts
JB, That's really very NICE !!! We however prefer proving the KF on more unconventional wing planforms... It seems to work on EVERYTHING !!!!!
gpw is online now Find More Posts by gpw
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 11, 2009, 07:30 AM
Onward through the fog.
Cybernaught's Avatar
Bohol Philippines
Joined Aug 2008
1,566 Posts
Grand anouncement!

Tata flew for the first time.

The good news:
He got in two flights and did very well. I took the Buzzard up and had to bring it down for a bit of reflex to be adjusted in. Then up again with a click here and a click there and then I got it trimmed for a good slow hands off stable flight around 1/2 throttle. I handed the transmitter to him and he managed to maneuver it around a bit and landed OK by himself. Flight #2 was a bit longer, maybe two minutes, but ended up in a coco tree. No damage. I had two flights after that as the wind kicked in and he calmed down. He said the heart was really pounding.
Bad News:
Battery failure in the camera lost Edna's video but I'll have him up again soon and we'll get some video to post. I don't think it will be too long before he does his own side arm launches.

To be 22 again and have those good reflexes. He'll be better than me in no time.

Update on the Canard:
I'm pissed. The fuselage is not done and it' weighs in at 160g, already, without any gear or the wings on. Way too heavy! I'm trying a substitute stick fuse that's only around 50g We'll see how it goes but I'm just about ready to chuck it. Maybe I'd better just stick with wings and deltas.

Steve.
Cybernaught is offline Find More Posts by Cybernaught
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 11, 2009, 01:18 PM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
17,221 Posts
Steve wrote:

"..Update on the Canard: I'm pissed. The fuselage is not done and it' weighs in at 160g, already..."

Have you noticed this thread on the ROW canard? It is an interesting build:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1077366

I'm one who staunchly avoid putting together anything that uses the most fragile part of the airplane to lead the parade into hard landings, trees, etc.

Maybe if you continue and it floats, you'll have a nice Ground Effect flyer. If you can run a school of mullet or something else that is edible up on the beach, the neighbors will love it!

Jack
jackerbes is offline Find More Posts by jackerbes
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 11, 2009, 01:22 PM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
17,221 Posts
gpw wrote:

"..JB, That's really very NICE !!!..."

I was trying to post that to Dave's "Please link your KF designs here" thread and got it in this thread instead. But Dave covered for me on it.

Maybe I should bury my mistake...

Jack
jackerbes is offline Find More Posts by jackerbes
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 11, 2009, 05:47 PM
Onward through the fog.
Cybernaught's Avatar
Bohol Philippines
Joined Aug 2008
1,566 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackerbes
I'm one who staunchly avoid putting together anything that uses the most fragile part of the airplane to lead the parade into hard landings, trees, etc.
Jack
You are obviously much more intelligent than I.

This whole exercise is because I want a little bitty wing in front. I have spent the last 9 months or so, since getting into the model airplane hobby for about the 5th time, coming to the conclusion that "less is better and no fins is better still". Now, for the sake of that little itty-bitty front wing, I'm throwing all that newly acquired wisdom to the wind and frustrating the hell out of myself. It's reminiscent of my first two marriages. Must be some king of psychological BS like "Self Flagellation" or something like the pursuit of spiritual purity through self-inflicted agony.

Maybe it's time to back up five yards and punt.

Steve.


Edit:
In Tagbilaran and we got a bit of flying time in this morning. Here's a vid of Tata flying the Buzzard flying wing. He's doing great and I hope soon to have two planes up at the same time.
Tata's Third Flight. (6 min 20 sec)
Cybernaught is offline Find More Posts by Cybernaught
Last edited by Cybernaught; Oct 11, 2009 at 11:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 12, 2009, 06:49 PM
PunchDrunk ex-Pug try'n fly'n
jp.electrik's Avatar
United States, MN, Minneapolis
Joined Jan 2009
1,014 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cybernaught
Tata flew for the first time.
To be 22 again and have those good reflexes. He'll be better than me in no time. Steve.
Good for both of you! Very gracious on your part Steve.
jp
jp.electrik is offline Find More Posts by jp.electrik
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 13, 2009, 06:26 AM
Onward through the fog.
Cybernaught's Avatar
Bohol Philippines
Joined Aug 2008
1,566 Posts
My Canard wasn't working out weight wise so I did a small mod. The original fuselage was over 160g alone. I think it looks better (cleaner) without the canard. I will try to get it to fly that way first then add a canard if I want to later. I like the look but have no idea how it will fly.

I can use elevons without the canard, or canard-elevator and ailerons or elevons front and back or elevons with canard elevator assist. We'll see how it goes.
They all morph and never come out the way they are planned.

Steve.
Cybernaught is offline Find More Posts by Cybernaught
Last edited by Cybernaught; Oct 13, 2009 at 06:42 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 13, 2009, 08:24 AM
Registered User
davereap's Avatar
Ashford. Kent. England
Joined Feb 2005
7,023 Posts
The CYCLONE has flown.. this is the renamed superfly/goolie crossbreed. using a KFm4 wing
here is the video..
there are problems but, not with the airframe..they are with getting the motors running equal as you power up...watch what happens as I throttle up..
Luckily at 1/4 throttle all was in ballance, and it was flying well..
It certainly rotates when you use the rudder to vary each motors speed, it made me laugh
the build is here.. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...t=977954&page=3

.
Cyclone (3 min 1 sec)
davereap is offline Find More Posts by davereap
Last edited by davereap; Oct 13, 2009 at 08:54 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 13, 2009, 10:59 AM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
17,221 Posts
Nice test flight Dave!

I couldn't feel you pain if there was any.

But there were some very snappy maneuvers taking place there for sure.

How is that wired? Two ESCs on a "Y" cable? I have no idea how you made that work or how to make that work.

Jack
jackerbes is offline Find More Posts by jackerbes
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 13, 2009, 11:05 AM
Registered User
Ipoh, Perak Malaysia
Joined Jul 2006
4,011 Posts
No Y cables if you want separate controls for the motors by the rudder stick. You need them on separate channels and have a mix from both the throttle and rudder into both output channels.

chewy
chewytm is offline Find More Posts by chewytm
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 13, 2009, 11:11 AM
Registered User
davereap's Avatar
Ashford. Kent. England
Joined Feb 2005
7,023 Posts
No jack ...one motor to throttle, one to rudder, then use two mixes on the radio to get em working together read here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=990577

after another tune up another flight, and the same problem shows up. increase the throtle and it does a nice right turn ,,you can hold left rudder whist doing that but its a pain..
other problems ....Hand launch shows bad torqe rolling.....with two props it glides like a brick...after the glide giving up throttle gives a bad torque rolling movement and the motor problems make it worse throwing the line off
what is nice is the differential motor control, its much more effective than just a rudder...
with half power, half up elevator and full rudder the cyclone rotates like a loony and only slowly comes down...
And the power to weight ratio lets it go up like a rocket
If I can sort the motor problems it will be great... If I cant..well I dont know
At the moment even though its not right it is making me laugh
To start with a couple of counter rotating props will help, and may be two new motors so they come from the same batch

edit another possible solution cane from flying llama... use a gyro.. or even two..now why didnt I think of that....
davereap is offline Find More Posts by davereap
Last edited by davereap; Oct 15, 2009 at 06:32 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 13, 2009, 12:21 PM
Onward through the fog.
Cybernaught's Avatar
Bohol Philippines
Joined Aug 2008
1,566 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by davereap
No jack ...one motor to throttle, one to rudder, then use two mixes on the radio to get em working together read here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=990577

after another tune up another flight, and the same problem shows up. increase the throttle and it does a nice right turn ,,you can hold left rudder whist doing that but its a pain..
other problems ....Hand launch shows bad torque rolling.....with two props it glides like a brick...after the glide giving up throttle gives a bad torque rolling movement and the motor problems make it worse throwing the line off
what is nice is the differential motor control, its much more effective than just a rudder...
with half power, half up elevator and full rudder the cyclone rotates like a loony and only slowly comes down...
And the power to weight ratio lets it go up like a rocket
If I can sort the motor problems it will be great... If I cant..well I don't know
At the moment even though its not right it is making me laugh
To start with a couple of counter rotating props will help, and may be two new motors so they come from the same batch
Looks like fun Dave,
It's Wed Oct 14th at about 00:19am. Just got the download of your flight done and watched...
Reason says the reverse prop on one side should handle most of the problems. Some weird maneuvers there!

Steve.
Cybernaught is offline Find More Posts by Cybernaught
Last edited by Cybernaught; Oct 13, 2009 at 01:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 14, 2009, 02:23 AM
Onward through the fog.
Cybernaught's Avatar
Bohol Philippines
Joined Aug 2008
1,566 Posts
The "New Bird" with no name is ready for maiden.

Here she is in the first incarnation with all the gear enclosed and not looking too shabby. Balance is about right with a touch of nose heavy at a CG of 18% MAC.

50% KFm2 airfoil.
427 sq in and 430g = 15.16oz and 2.965 sq ft for 5.11oz/sq ft
BW motor with 8x4 prop on 500mah 3s lipo and 15A ESC. Elevon control.

I predict a sensitive elevator response and slow roll rate. Will it fly? We'll see.


Steve.
Cybernaught is offline Find More Posts by Cybernaught
Last edited by Cybernaught; Oct 15, 2009 at 01:13 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Idea 40" Depron Dynamite, Kline fogleman Depron build dougmontgomery Hand Launch 639 Oct 29, 2014 06:31 PM
Cool Here is my KFm-5 DLG GLider (Kline-Fogleman) dougmontgomery Foamies (Scratchbuilt) 151 Apr 21, 2014 10:08 AM
Discussion ** Kline-Fogleman Airfoiled Flying Wing ** Tony65x55 Foamies (Scratchbuilt) 3945 Apr 08, 2014 11:40 AM
Video Kline Fogleman Airfoil on a flying wing Tony65x55 Electric Plane Talk 3 Jan 30, 2009 08:37 PM
Discussion Kline-Fogleman Airfoil on a flying wing Tony65x55 Modeling Science 1 Aug 20, 2006 12:14 PM